I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season

[e_prime 1,936]

http://nypost.com/2014/01/06/sather-must-decide-is-dealing-girardi-best-for-rangers/

Larry Brooks seems to think the asking price for Girardi is TWO A-Level Prospects and a pick. Boston being first on the list of Sather's "to call list." Followed by Ducks, Kings, and Sharks.

"The Rangers have every right — and every obligation — to demand a package of two “A” prospects, maybe already in the NHL or maybe not, plus a draft pick in return for Girardi."

The rest of the article suggests that the Rangers may have problems signing both Girardi and Callahan (even going so far to suggest that they trade Callahan!!) this off-season and that losing one and gaining the picks and prospects would be better than standing pat with both of these players -- "which for years generally has been somewhere between sixth and ninth in the East."

The bolded quote is seemingly is our future too, except where the Rangers may need prospects and picks to clean up the mess that is their roster, I think we need a couple of sure-fire, high end talents (at least one top end defenseman) to round out the roster so we're not a middling team for years to come.

EDIT: Rangers only have 10 roster players signed for next year. Sather's got his work cut out for him. 6 RFAs. Along with Callahan and Girardi; Boyle and Pouliot are also UFA.

Edited January 9, 2014 by e_prime

[LeftWinger 4,951]

two "A" level prospects AND a pick? Holland will not be in those sweepstakes..."A" level prospects with some NHL experience and a pick...so the "A" level prospects from us would be Nyquist and Tatar or Jurco. Are those guys worth trading for Girardi? Maybe ONE of them, but not TWO and a pick. I think Girardi goes for a pick in the end or he just walks. Nobody is going to overpay that much for a pending UFA, not unless he is a sign and trade. Still I don't see Holland giving up Nyquist, Tatar and a pick for him... oh well.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Not that I'm necessarily an advocate of bringing Weber here, but the best +/- on their team's defense is a +1. The team can't score, Rinne's been out most of the season and Weber's been paired with Jones and/or Josi. There are going to be some issues there, regardless of his level of talent.

Dude, Jones and Josi are both really good defensemen, I'd love either of them on our team haha.

I know what you're saying, their team is bad, and they never score, and Rhinne is out. All of that is true, and I'm certainly not saying that Weber is junk or anything. I'm just saying that for his contract (7.8 million cap hit, and over 25 million dollars in salary and bonuses for the next three years regardless of his play) you better be Ray Bourque. Weber hasn't ever been the best all around defenseman in the NHL, but he sure gets paid for like it. I'd rather have someone who puts up a little less offense, plays a lot more defense, and gets paid like a human.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

looks like Kenny is going to have some work to do this summer. lots of guys out of waiver options, others could be moved on that are on long trem contracs. if Sproul and Mantha have a balls out camp will Kenny and Babs back up the joke of a statement that the best players will play?

[wings4thecup06 504]

Not that it affects that much, but I still believe we'll buy out Tootoo this summer with the second compliance buyout. It'll free up a little more cash and give Toots the chance to actually play in the show somewhere else.

I agree, I think they'll try to trade Tootoo first, and if unsuccessful, buy him out after. Its clearly evident he's not in favour with Babcock, otherwise he'd still be up in Detroit at the moment and have a more regular spot in the lineup.

I'd love them to just go for it and keep Jurco up next season, as long as he's playing well of course…...

[larionov_8 12]

Ferarro Sheahan and Callahan are out off options so they won't be with Griffins next season

I'm wondering whether, just because these guys will be exposed to waivers, whether they still couldn't be in the AHL. Emmerton is there, for example, and he's technically out of options too. Since all of these players are RFAs, I would guess they could be signed and kept in the AHL - or called up/down if the Wings aren't too concerned with losing them. I suppose it's more about space in GR, but my point is, perhaps just because they are out of options doesn't mean they're in Detroit or otherwise let go.

I think the roster will look something similar to what LeftWing wrote, without too many major additions:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen

Tatar - Weiss - Aflie*

Abdelkader - Helm - Nyquist

Miller - Andersson - Tootoo**

Sheahan

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Smith

UFA/Quincey*** - Kindl

Lashoff

Howard

Mrazek

* or another secondary winger, if Alfie retires: I could see UFAs Setoguchi (he has struggled in WPG, unlikely to be resigned) or Kulemin (may want more $ than Toronto wants to offer) being a good fit on the 2nd or 3rd line

** I have a terrible suspicion that Cleary will be resigned. I would rather see Tootoo get his chance. For Babcock I think the knock against Tootoo isn't that he doesn't score many points (neither does Glendening), but that he doesn't kill penalties.

*** if they do let Quincey walk, I think they will choose to add some depth. It would be great if they could bring a righty. Big minute guys like Girardi or Matt Greene would help - this roster would allow for the cap hit - but given they will be hot commodies if they hit free agency at all, I could see a depth guy like Engelland (PIT, 31) or Mark Fayne (NJ, 26).

Again, no guarantees any of these guys hit free agency. Perhaps the Wings will try again to trade for someone under contract / RFA? Or perhaps their experience with Quincey will deter them from trying that again...

Should be an interesting off season...let's hope it's a long time in coming!

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I'm wondering whether, just because these guys will be exposed to waivers, whether they still couldn't be in the AHL. Emmerton is there, for example, and he's technically out of options too. Since all of these players are RFAs, I would guess they could be signed and kept in the AHL - or called up/down if the Wings aren't too concerned with losing them. I suppose it's more about space in GR, but my point is, perhaps just because they are out of options doesn't mean they're in Detroit or otherwise let go.

I think the roster will look something similar to what LeftWing wrote, without too many major additions:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen

Tatar - Weiss - Aflie*

Abdelkader - Helm - Nyquist

Miller - Andersson - Tootoo**

Sheahan

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Smith

UFA/Quincey*** - Kindl

Lashoff

Howard

Mrazek

* or another secondary winger, if Alfie retires: I could see UFAs Setoguchi (he has struggled in WPG, unlikely to be resigned) or Kulemin (may want more $ than Toronto wants to offer) being a good fit on the 2nd or 3rd line

** I have a terrible suspicion that Cleary will be resigned. I would rather see Tootoo get his chance. For Babcock I think the knock against Tootoo isn't that he doesn't score many points (neither does Glendening), but that he doesn't kill penalties.

*** if they do let Quincey walk, I think they will choose to add some depth. It would be great if they could bring a righty. Big minute guys like Girardi or Matt Greene would help - this roster would allow for the cap hit - but given they will be hot commodies if they hit free agency at all, I could see a depth guy like Engelland (PIT, 31) or Mark Fayne (NJ, 26).

Again, no guarantees any of these guys hit free agency. Perhaps the Wings will try again to trade for someone under contract / RFA? Or perhaps their experience with Quincey will deter them from trying that again...

Should be an interesting off season...let's hope it's a long time in coming!

Setoguchi is a complete bag of garbage. Instead of signing a Dman to replace Q, Ouellet and Sproul will likely be given a shot along with Marchenko as a call up. Tootoo will likely be a buyout this summer cause he couldn't be unloaded on the waiver wire. Alfie is slowing down and is out with sore groins and such this year. I have a feeling that he retires this summer. I think the team will look something like:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen

Tatar - Weiss - Nyquist

Abdelkader - Helm - Jurco

Callahan - Andersson - Glendening

Sheahan/Miller

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Smith

Ouellet/Sproul - Kindl

Lashoff

Howard

Mrazek

The Wings won't be able to re-sign Cleary again or they'll be in the same position as this year. I have a feeling as well that Kindl may be a possible trade piece and there's numerous teams where he would be a top 4 Dman, namely Florida and Edmonton. If the Wings go after any forwards this offseason, it should be Matt Moulson or Tomas Vanek if they aren't re-signed already.

[Dabura 12,207]

I just remembered I never followed up my last post in this thread. Lemme get right on that. *procrastinates*

[number9 3,297]

I think Tootoo stays buried, if he was tradeable it would have happened by now. I think everyone else walks or retires besides the inevitable Cleary re-signing. IMO I don't see any UFAs that scream Red Wings. If we make no UFA additions and let our baggage walk ill honestly be ok with that. The youngens are getting ripe.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I believe they go in house next season, and with the way Sheahan has be impressing, he will definitely be here. Unfortunately for Franzen, if he cannot get his head straight, he will have to hang them up. Detroit will either buy him out or he will just retire. Which ever cost the Wings the least. They will replace his roster spot with either re-signing Alfie or a top paid UFA. EIther way, the team should have all of Sheahan, Ferraro, Nyquist, Tatar, Callahan, Almquist and Mrazek on it next season. Especially if this team misses the playoffs. They need to rebuild their core just like they did in the early 90's. Jurco, Oulette, Sproul, Marchenko and Patterson/Coreau will all make stops in the NHL next season due to injury call ups...

It's been fun, but goodbye to Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Eaves, Quincey and Gustavsson. If Franzen gets his head cleared, he may reclaim that top line spot with Pav and Z, but if he is still havig issues from 2008, I really think he is going to go along the lines of Fish and retire from a condition that just prevents him from continuing his career. Not the way I want him to go, I'd rather trade him, and I definitely do not wish a career ending injury on anyone, even as much as I dislike him, BUT if this is an lingering injury from the 2008 severe concussion he had, it really does explains a ton!

[Dabura 12,207]

Any chance Subban gets traded this summer? Therrien isn't his biggest fan, and his next contract will be mammoth.

[larionov_8 12]

Setoguchi is a complete bag of garbage. Instead of signing a Dman to replace Q, Ouellet and Sproul will likely be given a shot along with Marchenko as a call up. Tootoo will likely be a buyout this summer cause he couldn't be unloaded on the waiver wire. Alfie is slowing down and is out with sore groins and such this year. I have a feeling that he retires this summer. I think the team will look something like:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen

Tatar - Weiss - Nyquist

Abdelkader - Helm - Jurco

Callahan - Andersson - Glendening

Sheahan/Miller

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Smith

Ouellet/Sproul - Kindl

Lashoff

Howard

Mrazek

The Wings won't be able to re-sign Cleary again or they'll be in the same position as this year. I have a feeling as well that Kindl may be a possible trade piece and there's numerous teams where he would be a top 4 Dman, namely Florida and Edmonton. If the Wings go after any forwards this offseason, it should be Matt Moulson or Tomas Vanek if they aren't re-signed already.

Can't disagree with you. I always thought Setoguchi had some skills when we saw lots of him in San Jose. I guess Detroit's had good success with "reclamation projects" in the past. But you being in Manitoba, chances are you've watched some Jets games and know better than me if there's anything to work with!

I certainly don't think Cleary's earned another contract, while I respect his heart. But at the same time, it's hard for me to accept that no UFAs will be re-signed on forward or on D, for a few reasons:

- the organization has an usual affinity for veterans

- we lack size upfront which is probably why guys like Cleary and Bert have held on as long as they have

- given our number of injuries, maybe they will try to find strength in numbers...

If they can get a guy like Moulson or Vanek, that would certainly be exciting. I just don't know how possible that is, given that those two are probably the top two UFAs and I'm not sure Detroit will be willing to pay as much as some other teams might.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Can't disagree with you. I always thought Setoguchi had some skills when we saw lots of him in San Jose. I guess Detroit's had good success with "reclamation projects" in the past. But you being in Manitoba, chances are you've watched some Jets games and know better than me if there's anything to work with!

I certainly don't think Cleary's earned another contract, while I respect his heart. But at the same time, it's hard for me to accept that no UFAs will be re-signed on forward or on D, for a few reasons:

- the organization has an usual affinity for veterans

- we lack size upfront which is probably why guys like Cleary and Bert have held on as long as they have

- given our number of injuries, maybe they will try to find strength in numbers...

If they can get a guy like Moulson or Vanek, that would certainly be exciting. I just don't know how possible that is, given that those two are probably the top two UFAs and I'm not sure Detroit will be willing to pay as much as some other teams might.

I mentioned Moulson or Vanek in a post much earlier in this thread, but I also said those are the only 2 FA's I can think of that we should actually go after. No more of the signing guys for the sake of signing, like Sammy, Colo, White, etc. Sign a guy you want to stay here and be a part of the future. If not, use the draft. Kenny talks about drafting and developing, but then he trades the good ones away for declining vets half the time.

[larionov_8 12]

I mentioned Moulson or Vanek in a post much earlier in this thread, but I also said those are the only 2 FA's I can think of that we should actually go after. No more of the signing guys for the sake of signing, like Sammy, Colo, White, etc. Sign a guy you want to stay here and be a part of the future. If not, use the draft. Kenny talks about drafting and developing, but then he trades the good ones away for declining vets half the time.

Yes, they seem to come to a total number of goals they want to score in a year and then slot guys in: "Bert can score 15, Samuelsson can score 20," etc etc. Of course the assumption being that what they've done in the past, they will be able to repeat.

That assumption is what seems to scare them away from the young players: they haven't proven what they're capable of yet in the NHL. I'm not saying I disagree with your argument, I just feel like this is the philosophy the Wings have stuck too and though it must be changing to some extent, I suspect some of this thinking will persist.

I guess this is why I find guys like Kulemin or Setoguchi theoretically interesting. They could provide some scoring depth because they have proven capability to score goals. And being still in their 20s and not having terribly great seasons, they could likely be had for less and if they do play well, they could be guys you want to keep around. It is a risk, for sure, and obviously might not always pay off but if they have the cap space and roster space, at the worse you've added some depth in the short term. Better to take a risk on a young veteran with some upside versus an old guy who definitely can't be part of the future.

But I have to agree with you that the UFA cupboard seems pretty bare. Looking over the list, two other folks who come to mind to me as potential Wings targets would be Ryan Callahan or Milan Michalek. Michalek is having a terrible year but is going to be an Olympian for the Czech's (beat out Jiri Hudler) and is over 6' and 200 lbs, unlike many of the Wings forwards under contract next year. Unfortunately both seem to have issues with injury, especially Michalek -- but again that's what makes me think there's a chance they could even be available!

Other than that, guys like Vrbata, Marleau, Iginla...regardless of whether or not the Wings would even be interested, I just don't see them leaving their respective clubs.

[Dabura 12,207]

The Panthers are going to be a cap team:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-01-11/sports/fl-florida-panthers-news-0112-20140111_1_gm-tallon-salary-cap-vinnie-viola

Suppose Weiss continues to struggle immensely. Do you suppose Tallon might be interested in re-acquiring their franchise guy? Might Weiss be interested in "going home"?

Just a fluff thought. Not hating on Weiss. I want him to kick ass for the Red Wings.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I mentioned Moulson or Vanek in a post much earlier in this thread, but I also said those are the only 2 FA's I can think of that we should actually go after. No more of the signing guys for the sake of signing, like Sammy, Colo, White, etc. Sign a guy you want to stay here and be a part of the future. If not, use the draft. Kenny talks about drafting and developing, but then he trades the good ones away for declining vets half the time.

What are some recent Examples? Alfie, Sammy,Cleary, Weiss, Coliacovo, White, Modano, all came here as UFAs. We traded Matthias for Bertuzzi but that was 7 years ago. we traded a 1st for quincey and, though most didn't like it, he's not a vet.

My point is that Holland has made the organizational shift to drafting and developing and supplementing the roster with available UFAs. Everyone else on the team is home grown except DK and The Monster.

Edit: Ooops, also Miller and Eaves not drafted here, but we still still have around 14 players

Justin Abdelkader

Joakim Andersson

Pavel Datsyuk

Jonathan Ericsson

Johan Franzen

Luke Glendening

Darren Helm

Jimmy Howard

Jakub Kindl

Niklas Kronwall

Brian Lashoff

Gustav Nyquist

Kyle Quincey

Brendan Smith

Tomas Tatar

Henrik Zetterberg

Edited January 14, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

What are some recent Examples? Alfie, Sammy,Cleary, Weiss, Coliacovo, White, Modano, all came here as UFAs. We traded Matthias for Bertuzzi but that was 7 years ago. we traded a 1st for quincey and, though most didn't like it, he's not a vet.

My point is that Holland has made the organizational shift to drafting and developing and supplementing the roster with available UFAs. Everyone else on the team is home grown except DK and The Monster.

Edit: Ooops, also Miller and Eaves not drafted here, but we still still have around 14 players

Justin Abdelkader

Joakim Andersson

Pavel Datsyuk

Jonathan Ericsson

Johan Franzen

Luke Glendening

Darren Helm

Jimmy Howard

Jakub Kindl

Niklas Kronwall

Brian Lashoff

Gustav Nyquist

Kyle Quincey

Brendan Smith

Tomas Tatar

Henrik Zetterberg

Good point. I guess it's more the crap signings than trades. 2 offseasons ago when he should have done 1 year signings across the board really handcuffed the team especially when the cap went down and everyone knew it was.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I can count I added some names and forgot to change the number - it's 15 mainstays in the lineup that were drafted and developed plus glendening who I accidentally included

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Yes, they seem to come to a total number of goals they want to score in a year and then slot guys in: "Bert can score 15, Samuelsson can score 20," etc etc. Of course the assumption being that what they've done in the past, they will be able to repeat.

That assumption is what seems to scare them away from the young players: they haven't proven what they're capable of yet in the NHL. I'm not saying I disagree with your argument, I just feel like this is the philosophy the Wings have stuck too and though it must be changing to some extent, I suspect some of this thinking will persist.

I guess this is why I find guys like Kulemin or Setoguchi theoretically interesting. They could provide some scoring depth because they have proven capability to score goals. And being still in their 20s and not having terribly great seasons, they could likely be had for less and if they do play well, they could be guys you want to keep around. It is a risk, for sure, and obviously might not always pay off but if they have the cap space and roster space, at the worse you've added some depth in the short term. Better to take a risk on a young veteran with some upside versus an old guy who definitely can't be part of the future.

But I have to agree with you that the UFA cupboard seems pretty bare. Looking over the list, two other folks who come to mind to me as potential Wings targets would be Ryan Callahan or Milan Michalek. Michalek is having a terrible year but is going to be an Olympian for the Czech's (beat out Jiri Hudler) and is over 6' and 200 lbs, unlike many of the Wings forwards under contract next year. Unfortunately both seem to have issues with injury, especially Michalek -- but again that's what makes me think there's a chance they could even be available!

Other than that, guys like Vrbata, Marleau, Iginla...regardless of whether or not the Wings would even be interested, I just don't see them leaving their respective clubs.

I was unaware that Ryan Callahan was a pending UFA. He would be amazing here. Michalek has injuries too much as you mentioned and is also inconsistent with production and doesn't always put out the effort I've noticed.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

I can count I added some names and forgot to change the number - it's 15 mainstays in the lineup that were drafted and developed plus glendening who I accidentally included

He and DeKeyser are both Michigan boys so they can count. The Wings are the only team they've both played for as well, so I'll give Holland some credit for those signings, along with the scouts, but like I said, signings like Sammy, Cleary, Miller for 3 years and signing Tuzzi for more than 1 year at a time even though I've always been a fan of his is just stupid. And then there's Tootoo, 3 years for how much again? And then he gets 6 minutes a game and then buried in GR even though we play better and gain more energy with him on the Wings....

Sometimes I just don't get how the coach and GM don't see what millions of other people do see.

[larionov_8 12]

Screw it, I just say they sign Dany Heatley in the off-season and call it a day...

[PumpkinEscobar 136]

Screw it, I just say they sign Dany Heatley in the off-season and call it a day...

no thanks

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Screw it, I just say they sign Dany Heatley in the off-season and call it a day...

When people mention Heatley as a UFA target I honestly can't tell if they're serious or sarcastic or trolling or what....

[Dabura 12,207]

I've gone over CapGeek's UFA list about nine million times. One name that really "clicks" (for lack of a better word) is Matt Moulson. He just makes a lot of sense for this team, for reasons which this piece sort of touches on:

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2013/10/27/5036582/no-pizza-for-spicoli-goodbye-to-matt-moulson-thomas-vanek-trade-buffalo-sabres

Good character, hard worker, proven 30-goal scorer. Sort of an underdog story. Seemed to really like being an Islander, was a good team guy...and got dumped in Buffalo. You want to see him find a good home and succeed there.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Dabura

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Moulson would be a great addition - but i think he gets dealt for picks at the deadline and that team goes on to re-sign him.