Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season


  • Please log in to reply
408 replies to this topic

#341 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,625 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 15 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

again, all this UFA signing talk is fun, but what do you do with the kids that are out of waiver exemptions? Jurco and Glendening will NOT be on the roster opening day because they have exemptions left and will certainly start the season in GR because they can.  Sheahan, Ferraro, Callahan and Almqvist all need to pass through waivers to be sent to GR to start the season. Unless there is a trade made moving some of these guys out of town, they will be on the roster come October or you will most certainly lose one if not all of them for nothing...Sheahan is a no brainer since he has been the one seeing all the NHL duty, Ferraro, for all intents and purposes, was a 1st round draft pick, Almqvist shows potential and Callahan is still in their top 25 prospects list.  You don't want to waste draft talent like that, especially since you have been developing them since day 1.  I say outside of a trade for a scorer and a top 2 defender, Holland goes all in house next season.  You just cannot afford to lose these guys you have invested so much time in.  It's not like any of them fell of the radar either. I could see if they were draft busts and just fell of the list of potential NHL players, but these four are all right there in their top pool. There are others out of exemptions but I am not sure how they factor into the Wings plans, since none of them are in the top 25 prospect pool; Coetzee, Aubry, Nestrasil, Parkes, Fournier and Emmerton...

 

You cannot just replace Sammy, Bertuzzi, Eaves and Cleary with UFA signings, you have 4 kids that are in your top prospect pool that need to be decided on.  Be on the Wings, get traded or lose for nothing to waivers...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#342 cnot19

cnot19

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 15 January 2014 - 01:10 PM

I hope tootoo is on the wings next year actually playing or bought out or traded so he can actually play
Get me a real fourth line Kenny!

#343 larionov_8

larionov_8

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 433 posts

Posted 15 January 2014 - 05:50 PM

I guess if the players who are "out of options" must pass through waivers to start the season, that does cause some issues. I had been thinking of a situation like Nyquist's, where he stayed in the minors to start the season before he was called up, but I guess technically he wasn't out of options at that time.

A roster with all of those players included would look like:

Z - Dats - Mule
Abdelkader - Weiss - Tatar
Miller - Helm - Nyquist
Sheahan - Andersson - Tootoo
Ferraro - Callahan

Kronwall - Ericsson
Dekeyser - Smith
Lashoff - Kindl
Almquist

Howie
Mrazek


Based on recent history I would be suprised to see the Wings not spend that 16 million dollars in potential cap space, in favour of letting two kids (M Callahan, Ferraro) and/or Tootoo sit on the bench. Makes me think:
1. Tootoo buy out may be more likely than I thought before, given that roster space, not cap space, may be their biggest issue, and they hopefully would not put him in the AHL for another full season
2. Wouldn't be surprised to see one of Almquist, Ferraro or Callahan included, if the Wings actually make some kind of trade.
3. The Wings will retain/sign a backup with NHL experience rather than turning the roll over the Mrazek before needed



#344 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,625 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:52 PM

Thing is Iggy, even though they will have around $16M give or take that they could use to acquire a UFA, there are roster limits to deal with. Right now you sit at 23, I am not sure if the limit is 23 or 24...

 

the thing is also, I really don't see Tootoo being on this roster next season either (unfortunately.) They have already shown they will waive him with no worry if they lose him, so they will probably do that again to make sure they have room for a UFA or even if Glendening or Jurco are to be on the opening roster.  Those two have exemptions, so going with Holland's history, they will start the year in GR just because they can...


Edited by LeftWinger, 15 January 2014 - 07:54 PM.

Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#345 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,708 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

I saw a pretty interesting scenario over on HF and it was:

 

Adam Larsson for B. Smith, T. Tatar, 1st 2014

 

I think this is more than fair value if not overpayment from the Wings. Larsson is the RH top pairing guy for the future we need and we don't NEED the 1st or Tatar in coming years with the prospect pool we currently have.

 

If we could then sign one of Callahan, Vanek, Moulson to fill out the roster we could be very deep next year.

 

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Ryan Callahan ($5.500m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.900m) / Landon Ferraro ($0.800m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.800m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Adam Larsson ($2.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) / Danny DeKeyser ($2.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) / Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)
Adam Almquist ($0.800m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Evgeni Nabokov ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,112,045; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,987,955

 

There is room to play with the cap hits a bit. I think Alfie plays one more year then we see Jurco in the top 6 full-time and after next season we see Ouellet + Sproul as our 3rd pairing replacing Kindl and Lashoff (giving us more RH balance on D).

 

What do you guys think of that trade? It hurts to lose Smith and Tatar cause I love them but I think the team has more balance overall for years to come. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#346 RedWang

RedWang

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:49 AM

I dont wanna lose Tatar. Hes gonna be a star i know it.

#347 darkmanx

darkmanx

    Toronto's Finest

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,635 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:03 PM

 

Helene St. James @HeleneStJames 20m

Mike Babcock on all the injured players the #RedWings have: "We've got millions and millions of dollars that never seems to play."

 

Sounds like he is getting frustrated with all the players sitting out. Wonder if he thinks some are mailing it in ?



#348 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,087 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:18 PM

I wouldn't make that trade, personally. I feel like we could fill the defensive hole without giving up both one of our brightest young defensemen and one of our brightest young goal-scorers (who's currently on pace for a 20-goal rookie season, all with somewhat limited ice time and line mates and physical stature). And that's saying nothing of the way Tatar's been kinda jerked around (not Holland's style, generally. He'll probably want to make it up to him, or, at the very least, not show him the door and earn a lifelong enemy), and now with his father's passing...I don't think he gets moved for anything less than an all-star. Which is to say, I don't think he gets moved.

 

I love Tatar. He's got teeth. I'd be more willing to move Nyquist.


Edited by Dabura, 18 January 2014 - 12:19 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#349 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,776 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:22 PM

I'd have interest in Larsson but not at that price.

 

Steep price for an unproven player.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#350 CMatt89

CMatt89

    The REAL great one...

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Grosse Point, MI

Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:53 PM

When all players are healthy we all of a sudden have a surplus of centers. Datsyuk, weiss, helm, andy, sheahan, ferraro, emmerton.... i wonder how it will play out. I still feel like this team needs wingers most importantly.

#351 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,087 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:12 PM

Been working on some ideas. Will post them soon.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#352 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,625 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

 

Sounds like he is getting frustrated with all the players sitting out. Wonder if he thinks some are mailing it in ?

ie...Helm.


if its a choice between Tatar or Nyquist....keeping Tatar. I'd like to keep both, but if one has to go...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#353 PumpkinEscobar

PumpkinEscobar

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:29 PM

Neither have to go...especially for the players mentioned

#354 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,087 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:43 PM

Here's where I'm at right now. It's a major pipe dream, but it's my major pipe dream.

 

We need at least two big acquisitions, IMHO. Currently my heart is set on Blake Wheeler, Matt Moulson, and Dan Girardi. Wheeler will have to be a trade, of course. I think Cheveldayoff might take a package built around Franzen and Nyquist. Actually, Franzen and Nyquist might/should be enough to get it done. If not, then maybe Franzen and Nyquist and Andersson. If not, maybe make Andersson a first-round pick. I dunno. Point is, I want Wheeler on this team. I've wanted him on this team for a long time. Get it done.

 

I guess Moulson and Girardi are, ideally, UFA signings. If we trade for one of them this season, Girardi makes more sense, given our needs on the blue line. Smith would probably have to go the other way, and we'd need to clear some cap space, so Quincey is pretty much a must. If we save the first-round pick from the Wheeler deal (so...Franzen + Nyquist + Andersson, or somewhere thereabouts), that could give us something like Smith + Quincey + a first-round pick, which is fairly solid, if not an overpayment. I'd be really reluctant to move Smith for an expiring contract, though. I'd want some kind of gentleman's agreement that Girardi would re-sign. Not that that would mean anything, but this is all fantasy anyway, so whatever.

 

That leaves Moulson. Holland could swing one big UFA signing, right? Especially with our whole "We believe in guys who other people don't necessarily believe in" thing, and our "We believe in family and loyalty" thing. Moulson would be all like, "Hot damn! It's about time someone tried to sell me on those lines!"

 

So, boom. We now have Wheeler, Moulson, Girardi. (Stop laughing.)

 

Alfredsson returns. Ideally, he takes a hometown discount. Gustavsson also returns. Tootoo gets bought out. Jurco and Sheahan make the team out of training camp. I kinda wanna keep Bert, if only because of his size (we'd be a very smallish team even with him in the ranks), but I think it's about time we parted ways. He'd have to play in the bottom six (we're adding Wheeler and Moulson and keeping Alfredsson), and I just don't know if he's gonna be all that effective in a checking/energy role.

 

Speaking of roles, what to do with the aforementioned Jurco? One juicy option: stick him right on the first line with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Tomas Jurco

Matt Moulson  Stephen Weiss  Blake Wheeler

Tomas Tatar  Darren Helm  Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller  Riley Sheahan  Justin Abdelkader

 

I really like those lines, and also these:

 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Blake Wheeler

Matt Moulson  Stephen Weiss  Daniel Alfredsson

Tomas Tatar  Darren Helm  Tomas Jurco

Drew Miller  Riley Sheahan  Justin Abdelkader

 

I think I ever so slightly prefer the first look, because it gives us three solid scoring lines. And, come on, Jurco with Z and D? Euro Twins Triplets! Also, I kinda like that we'd have an all-European scoring line and an all-North American one. So let's go with that.

 

YOUR 2014-2015 DETROIT RED WINGS

 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Tomas Jurco

Matt Moulson  Stephen Weiss  Blake Wheeler

Tomas Tatar  Darren Helm  Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller  Riley Sheahan  Justin Abdelkader

Ferraro, Glendening, Callahan

 

Niklas Kronwall  Jonathan Ericsson

Danny DeKeyser  Dan Girardi

Jakub Kindl  Brian Lashoff

Almqvist

 

Jimmy Howard

Gustavsson

 

So that's where I am right now. I guess it's essentially swapping Franzen, Nyquist, and Smith with Wheeler, Moulson, and Girardi. Sound stupid and unrealistic? It is. And I love it.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#355 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,708 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:15 PM

 

YOUR 2014-2015 DETROIT RED WINGS

 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Tomas Jurco

Matt Moulson  Stephen Weiss  Blake Wheeler

Tomas Tatar  Darren Helm  Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller  Riley Sheahan  Justin Abdelkader

Ferraro, Glendening, Callahan

 

Niklas Kronwall  Jonathan Ericsson
Danny DeKeyser  Dan Girardi
Jakub Kindl  Brian Lashoff
Almqvist
 
Jimmy Howard
Gustavsson

This would be over the cap limit for sure. With Moulson, Girardi coming as expensive UFA's and Wheeler coming in at a 5.6mill cap hit. Alfie wouldn't be any less than 5. Deke, Tatar get raises. Trading Smith for an aging UFA on the decline is not a good idea - Smith should be moved for someone of similar age that plays RHD if anything - Girardi plays the kind of game that doesn't age well and he is already showing it this season.


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#356 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,087 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:20 PM

This would be over the cap limit for sure. With Moulson, Girardi coming as expensive UFA's and Wheeler coming in at a 5.6mill cap hit. Alfie wouldn't be any less than 5. Deke, Tatar get raises. Trading Smith for an aging UFA on the decline is not a good idea - Smith should be moved for someone of similar age that plays RHD if anything - Girardi plays the kind of game that doesn't age well and he is already showing it this season.

 

I'll be working out the cap issues on CapGeek then I'll be posting what I come up with. That's the next phase. At the moment, though, I don't feel like what I've put together would be way over the cap, if over it at all. Franzen, Quincey, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Tootoo, Eaves would all be coming off the books, and the cap should be going up. Alfie won't play for peanuts, but he might accept 4 or 4.5. Not that I feel it'd be necessary for him to take a discount.

 

As for Smith/Girardi...

 

Girardi is 29, right-handed, a top-pairing talent, can log insane minutes, can play in every situation, can move the puck well, plays through injuries, etc. But you'll notice I have him on the second pairing. That basically mean he has to be better than Quincey. Point being, a not-quite-what-he-was-a-couple-seasons-ago Girardi is fine by me. You make it sound like he's a 35-year-old with little left in the tank. True, he's had a rough go of it over the past year or so, but players have rough stretches, and often it doesn't just boil down to "Well, he sucks now. It's too bad cuz he used to be good" (e.g. maybe the new coach's system doesn't suit him, maybe he's unhappy in NY, maybe he's just having an off season, maybe he needs a change of scenery). But even if he's not quite what he once was (again, though, he's 29, not 43), I'm not counting on him being a Norris candidate. I just want a solid top four.

 

Smith - like I said, I'm not keen on losing him. But for Girardi, and with the youth we have in the pipeline (Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, et al.)? I'd do it. Because it's the Cup.


Edited by Dabura, 18 January 2014 - 06:28 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#357 PumpkinEscobar

PumpkinEscobar

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:23 PM

That youth in the pipeline needs to be incorporated for good next season..would rather have Sproul and Ouelette as the third pairing next year and can use the extra players as trade bait such as Kindl and Lashoff

#358 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,189 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

Tootoo still has another year on his contract, unless he's bought out. 

 

No one is going to take Franzen with his contract and concussion/mental health issues.



#359 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,087 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:46 PM

That youth in the pipeline needs to be incorporated for good next season..would rather have Sproul and Ouelette as the third pairing next year and can use the extra players as trade bait such as Kindl and Lashoff

 

So you're just changing our third pairing? Does that really help our blue line woes? Lashoff is one of our steadier defensemen, is a pretty solid #6. Basically, he's our stay-at-home depth guy. (Every team needs a stay-at-home depth guy.) Packaging Kindl and Lashoff might fetch us a decent draft pick, but I don't really see what the motivation would be. Getting the kids up ahead of schedule? I guess I can understand that, given the extremely short window of opportunity we have left with our aging core. But I feel like it'd make a lot more sense to try to give ourselves an actual top four in the here and now and give Ouellet and Sproul and all the kids the time they need to develop properly.

 

Tootoo still has another year on his contract, unless he's bought out. 

 

No one is going to take Franzen with his contract and concussion/mental health issues.

 

I dunno if the first part was directed at me. I think Tootoo should be bought out. As for Franzen: probably not, but you never know. He's still a big-bodied top-six winger who's good for around 20 goals. Before he went out with these most recent troubles, he was playing almost like the Mule of old. Clutch, dominant. I think there are teams that would take him.


Edited by Dabura, 18 January 2014 - 06:58 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#360 PumpkinEscobar

PumpkinEscobar

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:54 PM

Sproul and Ouelette are ready
Top 4 is set for the next few years unless they trade Smith





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users