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I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season


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#361 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:09 PM

Sproul and Ouelette are ready
Top 4 is set for the next few years unless they trade Smith

 

Our top four is not set. We barely even have a top four. Even Holland agrees. (He's in the market for a top-four defenseman.) Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith is not going to win a Cup. Maybe several years from now, but by that point our core will be ancient. And maybe if we could score at will, but we can't. So we'd have a very iffy top four, and our third pairing would be Ouellet (who may or may not be read) and Sproul (who may or may not be ready). I like your faith in our youth, but I want a Stanely Cup next season.


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#362 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:25 PM

I'm not saying my roster is perfect. But I feel it could go toe-to-toe with any team in the league, in a best-of-seven. That's what I think we need to go for while we still have Datsyuk and before Zetterberg's back crumbles and before Kronwall really slows down and softens up. A team that is ruthlessly good, as good as Holland can possibly make it. A team that's much better than what we think would be acceptable, because that's what it's going to take to knock off a powerhouse like the Penguins or Blackhawks or Blues or Sharks.

 

Say we go with Kronwall-Ericsson-DeKeyser-Smith-Ouellet-Sproul. What happens if we get hit with injuries? What if we lose Kronwall? What if we lose Ericsson and DeKeyser? It's not gonna cut it.


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#363 joesuffP

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

I could see a lot of teams interested in Abby at the deadline

 
Sounds like he is getting frustrated with all the players sitting out. Wonder if he thinks some are mailing it in ?


I'm getting that impression. Guarantee you Franzen plays a couple games to get ready for the Olympics then lights it up. Helm has had a tweaked groin for four weeks

#364 mjtm77

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:55 PM

Sproul and Ouelette are ready
Top 4 is set for the next few years unless they trade Smith


I'm sorry but do u even watch? Sproul is the furthest thing from ready
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#365 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:58 PM

I'm sorry but do u even watch? Sproul is the furthest thing from ready

do you? He's already better than Quincey and by next season he'll be better than Lashoff

Our top four is not set. We barely even have a top four. Even Holland agrees. (He's in the market for a top-four defenseman.) Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith is not going to win a Cup. Maybe several years from now, but by that point our core will be ancient. And maybe if we could score at will, but we can't. So we'd have a very iffy top four, and our third pairing would be Ouellet (who may or may not be read) and Sproul (who may or may not be ready). I like your faith in our youth, but I want a Stanely Cup next season.

good luck to him finding someone who is top 4 with no cap room

#366 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:20 PM

do you? He's already better than Quincey and by next season he'll be better than Lashoff
good luck to him finding someone who is top 4 with no cap room

 

First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson.

 

As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.


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#367 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:22 PM

First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson.
 
As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.

that's fine for the offseason but how are you gonna fit him in the lineup NOW? You're not

#368 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:37 PM

that's fine for the offseason but how are you gonna fit him in the lineup NOW? You're not

 

As I said, his current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. We'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. So we'd be ok.


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#369 Playmaker

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:41 PM

 

First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson.

 

As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.

Come on, man.  The NYR Rangers are going to trade Girardi for Quincey?  Maybe they'll trade King Henrik for Thomas McCollum?  Or Samuelsson for Rick Nash?  



#370 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:41 PM

As I said, his current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. We'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. So we'd be ok.

moving Quincey to the Rangers? Good Luck with that

#371 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:43 PM

Come on, man.  The NYR Rangers are going to trade Girardi for Quincey?  Maybe they'll trade King Henrik for Thomas McCollum?  Or Samuelsson for Rick Nash?  

 

Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick. Or something along those lines. I laid this out in my long post on the previous page.


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#372 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:46 PM

Given the cap situation minus a minor move this is gonna be the team at the end of the season. I don't see how Holland is gonna trade for anyone of significance...offseason will be a different story once the deadweight is gone

Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick. Or something along those lines. I laid this out in my long post on the previous page.

never happen

Come on, man.  The NYR Rangers are going to trade Girardi for Quincey?  Maybe they'll trade King Henrik for Thomas McCollum?  Or Samuelsson for Rick Nash?

Franzen...Quincey...Smith plus a 1st for Girardi and Calahan might get it done

Edited by PumpkinEscobar, 18 January 2014 - 08:47 PM.


#373 Playmaker

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:04 PM

Given the cap situation minus a minor move this is gonna be the team at the end of the season. I don't see how Holland is gonna trade for anyone of significance...offseason will be a different story once the deadweight is gone
never happen
Franzen...Quincey...Smith plus a 1st for Girardi and Calahan might get it done

Okay, so the Rangers are going to take on a contract of a 34 year old guy with a history of concussions and possible mental health issues with a contract for another 6 seasons at 4 million because???  Why would the Wings take 2 rentals for a season that's pretty much lost for the only semi decent young defenseman in Smith and a pick the Wings need.  The Rangers are on fire right now.  Unless they think they have zero chance to do anything in the playoffs, which doesn't make sense,  I can't see them in a big hurry to trade Girardi.  



#374 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:14 PM

I'm not saying I think this will happen. I've even said my ideas are unrealistic.

 

I realize that we're having the sort of conversation where pretty much anything I say is going to be shot down, because, like, totally never gonna happen, man, because, like, they would totally never do that. But let's try to have an open mind about it (and I'll do the same about your ideas). Is it so ridiculous to think that we might be able to acquire Girardi this season? It really isn't. Maybe Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick wouldn't get it done - but I never said it had to be those three pieces. If Holland were to make up his mind that Girardi was the one and only guy he wanted to target and he really wanted to make it happen, I think he could get it done. We have prospects. We have draft pics. We have some attractive roster players. It could be done. Disagreeing with that is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I mean, no, we're not going to be able to land Wheeler and Girardi, but I already conceded that in my proposal. I'm not going for hyper-realism, things that I think will happen. I'm mostly throwing ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks.

 

Going back to your idea, Pumpkin, I actually like the thought of Smith and Ouellet and Sproul all sharing a blue line. I just don't think that's gonna cut it next season, if the Cup is the goal. Sproul is doing pretty well for himself in the AHL, but I don't think he's ready for full-time NHL duty (if the Cup is the goal). And Smith will be really good in a few seasons, but I don't think I want him in our top four next season (if the Cup is the goal), unless we're adding a solid top-four defenseman to our top four and maybe pairing him with Smith. I realize that would seem to go against my pitch for Girardi. If I don't want him in my top four, why would Sather want him as a return for one of his better defensemen? Mainly, I think the depth of the Rangers' blue line is why he might do it. They have a very strong D corps. They can afford to wait for Smith to become a top-pairing defenseman. Us? Not so much, IMHO.


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#375 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:34 PM

Okay, so the Rangers are going to take on a contract of a 34 year old guy with a history of concussions and possible mental health issues with a contract for another 6 seasons at 4 million because???  Why would the Wings take 2 rentals for a season that's pretty much lost for the only semi decent young defenseman in Smith and a pick the Wings need.  The Rangers are on fire right now.  Unless they think they have zero chance to do anything in the playoffs, which doesn't make sense,  I can't see them in a big hurry to trade Girardi.

it was sarcasm

#376 Dabura

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:36 PM

Okay, so the Rangers are going to take on a contract of a 34 year old guy with a history of concussions and possible mental health issues with a contract for another 6 seasons at 4 million because???  Why would the Wings take 2 rentals for a season that's pretty much lost for the only semi decent young defenseman in Smith and a pick the Wings need.  The Rangers are on fire right now.  Unless they think they have zero chance to do anything in the playoffs, which doesn't make sense,  I can't see them in a big hurry to trade Girardi.  

 

I never said Franzen would be part of the deal for Girardi. While we're talking about him, though, I think you're undervaluing him. Every team wants a big-bodied top-six winger who's good for 20-30 goals. Franzen isn't ideal, but he's not Dan Cleary. A team that needs more offense, maybe something to put them over the top, might be interested in him.

 

I don't think Girardi gets moved. If he does, it's because he's on an expiring contract. FWIW, his name has popped up in the rumor mill. One source says he's being shopped. Another says the Ducks are interested. There have been other whispers. Am I putting a lot of stock in rumors? Nope. But I do get the sense that things have changed with his situation. More specifically, I think he's less keen on staying than he once was. Five months ago I wouldn't have even proposed trading for Girardi, because everyone assumed he was a lock to re-sign. But now it looks like they might (*might*) lose one of Girardi/Callahan. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Girardi.

 

Signing him in the offseason makes more sense for us, but I don't see us signing two of the most coveted free agents (my pipe dreams being Girardi and Moulson), so I thought I'd spice things up and propose a trade for him. The hope is obviously that he'd re-sign.

 

As for why the Wings would consider trading for Girardi - because we need a top-four defenseman. Granted, there's a chance we may not make the playoffs this season, but I'm assuming/hoping that we're at least where we were last season come the deadline: a seventh or eighth or ninth seed, but really much better than that. And that's how I feel about this team. I think we can do some real damage if we can get in. But we need a top-four defenseman.


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#377 Playmaker

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:39 PM

Is it impossible to think that it could happen?  I suppose not.  But I can't see that it makes sense for either team.  I think if you put ideas out there, be prepared for discussion of the pros and cons.  

 

The Wings aren't a tough defenseman away from being Cup favorites.  With Girardi being a UFA and no guarantees he'd sign here, I wouldn't want to give up that much for him.  Sure, Girardi for Quincey is a no brainer, but I don't think there's anyone who's ready this season to replace Smith in the lineup should we trade him.  It would make the team worse this season and going forward.  



#378 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

Would rather start next season with our own...save the cap space for in season or for down the road but that's just me and Kenny will spend to the cap in the offseason and we'll be right back to where we are now

#379 Playmaker

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:50 PM

Would rather start next season with our own...save the cap space for in season or for down the road but that's just me and Kenny will spend to the cap in the offseason and we'll be right back to where we are now

I can absolutely see that happening.  



#380 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:52 PM

None of the free agents to me are worth what they'll get...would rather wait but Holland wont





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