Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season


  • Please log in to reply
408 replies to this topic

#41 hooon

hooon

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,212 posts
  • Location:Denver

Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:48 AM

I'd like to see:

 

Z-Dats-Mantha

Tatar-Helm-Nyquist

Franzen-Weiss-Jurco

Callahan-Abdelkader-Sheahan

Ferraro

 

Kronwall-DeKeyser

Ericsson-Smith

Ouellet-Sproul

Kindl/Almqvist (fight for ice time and a spot)

 

 

I think Mantha is the exception.  He's a giant power forward who can dangle and score.  He should be on the top line with Z and Dats and eat the Calder trophy for breakfast, lunch and supper.  Keep Helm on the 2nd line cause he's taking it and owning it.  Weiss can be a slightly expensive shutdown guy until his scoring touch comes back, which it should with wingers like Franzen and Jurco, who I expect good things from at the NHL level.  I want to see that 4th line annoy and destroy.  I don't care if they get a goal all year, which I'm sure they would, but regardless I just want them to hit everything.  Ouellet and Sproul should be on the team next season with Marchenko next in line from what I hear. 

 

If no free agent that is the likes of Vanek or someone of that caliber wants to sign, that team above could compete for the Cup.

 

Off topic:

 

But what is going on in your avatar picture? Is that Kronwall giving Gus a low-five instead of a fist pound? If so, I couldn't approve more. 


Edited by hooon, 27 November 2013 - 12:48 AM.

Posted Image

#42 GoalieManPat

GoalieManPat

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,363 posts
  • Location:Swartz Creek, MI

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:10 AM

Why does it seem like everyone is so eager to get rid of Alfie like he is a bad contract or something? The guy has come in and done great. Outside of Datsyuk and Hank he has the next best PPG on the team.



#43 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,718 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:19 AM

Why does it seem like everyone is so eager to get rid of Alfie like he is a bad contract or something? The guy has come in and done great. Outside of Datsyuk and Hank he has the next best PPG on the team.

 

Potential (Mantha, Jarnkrok, Jurco) is exciting and limitless.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#44 rick zombo

rick zombo

    Grit

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,911 posts

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:21 AM

The thing is. There's too many prospects that have to battle for too few positions. Holland will continue to let them all max out in GRs until they can no longer clear waivers. Exactly like he did with Smith, Tatar, and Nyquist (basically).

Hoping to see Mantha, Jurco, Oullett, Sproul, Jarnkrok, or Mrazek before they have played in GRs for basically 3 years each, would be be a pipe-dream I think. Unfortunately.

The Wings will do well next year to find room for Sheahan, Ferraro, Almquist, and (I think) Callahan.
"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#45 FireCaptain

FireCaptain

    Whaddya mean I can't beat BOSTON?

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,887 posts
  • Location:Atoka, TN

Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:02 AM

I've been banging that drum for over a year. People aren't calling Kenny anymore.. shoot, I'm not even sure they're picking up the phone when he calls. 

 

http://www.letsgowin...lost-its-shine/

 

i hate to burts the bubble but Detroit is no longer the choice of designation for highly coveted FA's. Every big contract we signed were for guys north of 38


Most nights, my posts are brought to you by Heineken and sarcasm.
Success has a thousand fathers, failure is an orphan.
We not score, is hard to win. - Pavel Datsyuk #13

#46 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,999 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:17 AM

I like the idea's the OP has, but a couple of things forgotten...Holland still has one compliance buyout available to him and also Landon Ferraro is out of options, along with having to be re-signed.  This organization has put a lot of time into him to not offer him a contract and every chance to earn a spot. The buyout will be used, hopefully on Franzen (who makes the most sense to use it on.) So, add Ferraro to the roster and that still leaves an open spot for a UFA...

 

Bertuzzi, Sammy, Cleary, Quincey, Monster and Alfie, goodbye, its over or just didn't work out the way we thought...

 

Re-sign Danny Diesel, Tatar, Sheahan and Ferraro from the RFA list and ONLY Ericsson on the UFA list (even though I think $4M is too much, but if its what the market dictates, then so be it.)

 

Say good riddance to Franzen (FINALLY) via the buyout.

 

Zetterberg (6.08M) - Datsyuk (7.5M) - UFA ($11.7M Available Cap Space)

Mantha ($925) - Weiss (4.9M) - Tatar (1.5M)

Nyquist ($950) - Helm (2.125M) - Abdelkader (1.8M)

Miller (1.35M) - Andersson ($733) - Tootoo (1.9M)

Sheahan ($950)/Ferraro ($950)

 

Kronwall (4.75M) - DeKeyser (1.5M)

Ericsson (4.0M) - Kindl (2.4M)

Smith (1.263M) - Lashoff ($725)

Ouellet ($670)

 

Howard (5.292M)

Mrazek ($595)

 

Yes, I still like Tootoo on this team, IMO he brings a much needed aspect to this team.  Maybe Babcock will utilize him more next season when the dead weight is all gone. This roster leaves $11.7M to spend, with that amount of cash Holland could acquire that #1 winger that is so desperately needed on Datsyuk's line.  The UFA's out there that would fit that bill are few and far between (not counting anyone who may become available via buyouts.) The top three are Gaborik, Heatley, Alex Steen and Vanek. All of which can be had and could ALL be looking for a change of scenery or in Gaborik's case, someone like Datsyuk to play with...There area also players like Stastny, Joe Thornton that could be had, but that would require moving a natural center to a wing.  I am sure it would be fine, and I would love to see Paul Stastny on this team...

 

I know there are still "kids" who may be close to stepping in to the NHL, but I think with Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Ferraro, Ouellet and Mantha and the removal of the old farts, this team is plenty young and green enough to not be TOO young and green.  I know the likes of Jarnkrok, Sproul, Almquist, Jurco etc...may see some injury call ups and lest we forget about Glendening who is also an RFA that will probably be re-signed since he is comfortably sitting in the 10th spot on the Wings prospects top 20.  They have plenty of players to fill the empty spots left by the old farts and Franzine, but I cannot see the Wings getting back to an elite status with at least one elite line of top 25 NHL talent...

 

 

Dastyuk needs a winger that can score 40-50 goals...whether he is out there or not, the players on this team today that are being pout on Datsyuk's line are not talented enough to even score 20 goals.

 

The fatal flaw in your plan: Franzen will be a Wing until he's 49.


Deep down, we all know he's not going anywhere. Ever.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#47 GoalieManPat

GoalieManPat

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,363 posts
  • Location:Swartz Creek, MI

Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:24 AM

 

Potential (Mantha, Jarnkrok, Jurco) is exciting and limitless.

 

Yes but potential means nothing until you've proven you can do it at the NHL level. None of those players are ready enough to come in and produce what would be lost with Alfie. Look at Tatar. All the potential in the world. He was supposed to come in and challenge for the Calder trophy. Yet this season he has really struggled to come in and score. I get that everyone is excited about some of the prospects but they are still just prospects not proven players. They need to come in and not be expected to carry the team right away. Alfie isnt holding them back. Its players like Sammy and Cleary that are true roster blocks. If Alfie can play as well at 41 as he is at 40 he is an asset to bring back and nowhere near a bad contract as some are mentioning in this thread. Thinking that Mantha is going to come in and instantly get 2nd line minutes with Babcock and Ken Holland is just lunacy.


Edited by GoalieManPat, 27 November 2013 - 07:25 AM.


#48 T.Low

T.Low

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,897 posts
  • Location:Bellingham, Wa

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:32 PM

I'm a huge Tatar fan, but too many times this season he has looked like a boy among men.

#49 wingslionstigers

wingslionstigers

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 341 posts

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

Bertuzzi would be a waste of a roster position...

 

Also, like I said earlier, the Wings will not be a Cup contender without that #1 guy on Dats wing.  They have a team full of 10-15 goal scorers at best.  Franzine may have 6 now, but will not finish above 20, if he even gets there.  Outside of Dats and Z, you have a team full of bottom 6 players right now. 

 

First you say we are smoking to think that adding 4 kids to the roster will help, then you say our future is on our roster and in Grand Rapids...

 

On our Roster: Nyquist, Tatar, DeKeyser

 

Grand Rapids : Ferraro, Sheahan, Ouellet, Sproul, Mrazek, Mantha.

 

That's our immediate future, minus Cleary, Sammy, Bertuzzi, Alfie, Quincey, Gustavsson and buying out someone (Franzen.)  Again, that is our future, but a nice 3-5 year deal on a 27-32 year old 40 goal scorer is not going to hurt and will put us near the top of the contenders list again.  Re-signing Bert and just going with kids is not going to get us a Cup before Dats retires. We need that line of pure top 25 talent, then with the addition of our GR kids and kids we have already, things will look bright not only in the future, but in the present! Right now, this is not even a playoff team.

Because you can't add 11 kids to your roster in a year and a half time. Are you that incapable of thinking about what I'm saying and understand whats going on with our team? You just think about small details and ignore the rest to build your conclusions and then try to push them to everyone on the Internet like its well thought out information.

You want to look like Edmonton? That's what happens when you add to many young guys in a short period of time and cut out to many veterans. Is Edmonton lacking in talent? No. Hmm that's weird.

Our players in Grand Rapids will be injected to the Wings roster with a combination of the Wings being ready to take on another rookie and the player themselves being ready. We have 4 young defense-men who are slowly getting to where we need them, and we have 3 young forwards who are now regular roster members. We got our young guys in now and we need to let those guys get there game tightened up before we can afford to add more rookies. You can only have so many guys liable to make rookie turnovers and mistakes on a team, unless you want to look like Edmonton and the only 1st place you will be chasing is to finish last. I know Holland kept Nyquist and Tatar out of the line up a little to long, but lets not pretend its a common occurrence. We definitely let guys develop before we push them into the league and that's a good thing. We have never held out big talent to long before and Holland did make a couple errors on contracts for whatever reason. Errors can be made and it's not a big deal now and likely not to happen again. We currently have no other players in Grad Rapids that should be on the Wings roster right now. Next season depending on how our team develops you may see one more rookie get a full time job. The year after that is when we can likely take another 2 or 3 rookies. That's how it works in the big leagues. We have tons of talent in Grand Rapids and when this happens Dats and Z will still be great players and we will have a great team. Mantha looks like hes going to be a top 1 or 2 goal scoring forward. We lock a guy up for 5 years now what happens to Sproul and Mantha? If we sign them who are we going to lose over it. Tatar and Nyquist will demand more money, Dekeyser will need more, etc.



#50 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,718 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:44 PM

 

Yes but potential means nothing until you've proven you can do it at the NHL level. None of those players are ready enough to come in and produce what would be lost with Alfie. Look at Tatar. All the potential in the world. He was supposed to come in and challenge for the Calder trophy. Yet this season he has really struggled to come in and score. I get that everyone is excited about some of the prospects but they are still just prospects not proven players. They need to come in and not be expected to carry the team right away. Alfie isnt holding them back. Its players like Sammy and Cleary that are true roster blocks. If Alfie can play as well at 41 as he is at 40 he is an asset to bring back and nowhere near a bad contract as some are mentioning in this thread. Thinking that Mantha is going to come in and instantly get 2nd line minutes with Babcock and Ken Holland is just lunacy.

 

Hey man I totally agree. Hence why I didn't have them in the lineup I posted.  Was just stating why I believe others always overvalue prospects and undervalue vets.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#51 blueadams

blueadams

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,012 posts

Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:56 PM

Lots of great responses!!  Some responses to the responses..

#1) The big issue most posters seem to have with the original post I made is "too many rookies!"  Let's think about that.  Mrazek, he's got plenty of NHL experience, and he's being brought up as a backup anyways.  Jarnkrok, he'd be a rookie, but he'll have plenty of AHL experience by that point - better prepared than a typical NHL rookie, for sure.  And Mantha, he'd be a typical rookie.  That's it.  Jarnkrok and Mantha.  Two rookies in the lineup.  That's too man ??  Come on.  That's fine.

 

#2) Like I said, I didn't put a great deal of thought into these lines.  I'm not sure if Jurco/Sheahan/Oullet/whoever make the team.  Just think of the rookie spots as open spots to be filled cheaply.

 

#3) Also, no.  I didn't mean to lump Alfie in there with the "bad" contracts.  Sorry.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Anthony Mantha ($0.925m) 
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Free Agent ($4.000m) 
Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Tatar ($1.500m) 
Calle Jarnkrok ($0.715m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) 
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.605m) / 
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Free Agent ($5.000m) 
Danny DeKeyser ($1.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) 
Brendan Smith ($1.263m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) 
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / 
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) 
Petr Mrazek ($0.595m) 
BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m) 
BURIED
Jordin Tootoo ($0.975m) 
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,889,545; BONUSES: $380,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $410,455



#52 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,718 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:05 PM

Blueadams, something to keep in mind is Sheahan, Ferraro and Callahan are all eligible for waivers next season.

 

I can't see the Wings keeping Mantha, Jarnkrok and Glendening on the roster at the expense of losing all three of those guys on waivers.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#53 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,692 posts

Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:43 PM

I'm a huge Tatar fan, but too many times this season he has looked like a boy among men.

This is Holland's fault. You can leave someone in the AHL all you want to develop but the game is different in the NHL and you have to expect he will need some time to find his game at this level regardless of his age. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#54 larionov_8

larionov_8

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 433 posts

Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:26 PM

I really wish there was a better option than Bert next year but who knows. Yes he brings assets but he is so slow and gives up the puck so frequently that his role in the game the rest of the Wings are aiming for (speed, puck position) is diminished. 

I think they'd bring Alfie back if he wants to play. 

Cleary should be done unless he has a major resurrection this year. 

I think some options upfront in the UFA pool that might bring some scoring depth include:

- Setogouchi, WPG
- Kulemin, TOR
- Moulson, BUF

All of these guys have some size and can score. I'd love to see Kuli along with one other guy. Setoguchi in particular might be a good "project" for Det. 

On D I agree the pickings are slim. I think a solid veteran guy is the answer. Matt Greene comes to mind, Michigan guy, 30, a big defensive guy, but I imagine he'll earn more than his 3 million now, and that LA probably want to hold onto him. Failing this kind of player I still think that adding a stable defensive guy to be 6/7, add depth and mentor Lashoff, to play along Smith, etc. -- essentially do what I think Quincey isn't able too -- that would be an asset to this team. 



#55 Spongewingredpants

Spongewingredpants

    Pragmatic Optimist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts
  • Location:Zug, Switzerland

Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:58 AM

I think we should sign Rick Nash to a 7 year contract. he just scored his second goal of the season for the Rangers


My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#56 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,999 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:53 PM

FWIW:

 

Report: 'Tension' between Jets and Evander Kane [ProHockeyTalk]

 

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Kane

 

lolololololol


Don't Toews me, bro!


#57 Spongewingredpants

Spongewingredpants

    Pragmatic Optimist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts
  • Location:Zug, Switzerland

Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:21 AM

if Holland doesn't do any boneheaded signings next year, we would have 15 million in cap space to replenish the gaps in the roster.

 

15 million is what we get by saying good bye to Cleary, Bertuzzi, Quincey, Sammy and Alfredsson

 

The only must sign guy is DD

 

of course, at least 2 of these above will be resigned, you can bet on it


Edited by Spongewingredpants, 29 November 2013 - 03:22 AM.

My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#58 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,926 posts

Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:04 AM

This is Holland's fault. You can leave someone in the AHL all you want to develop but the game is different in the NHL and you have to expect he will need some time to find his game at this level regardless of his age. 


Jesus lol Tatar isn't some blue chip prospect that was a guaranteed good NHLer. The fact that he can come up as a rookie and be part of a great 3rd line and contribute is all you can ask of him and not something he would have been able to do without his time in GR. Same goes for Nyquist. He stepped in and looks like a mature NHLer. Had they not stayed in GR for so long there would be a lot more growing pains. I think Holland and everyone's philosophy works great with developing late picks and getting the most out of them

#59 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,999 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:59 AM

How about a first line of Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Jurco?


Don't Toews me, bro!


#60 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,040 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

if Holland doesn't do any boneheaded signings next year, we would have 15 million in cap space to replenish the gaps in the roster.

 

15 million is what we get by saying good bye to Cleary, Bertuzzi, Quincey, Sammy and Alfredsson

 

The only must sign guy is DD

 

of course, at least 2 of these above will be resigned, you can bet on it

 

If Alfredsson doesn't come back, it's because we've won the Stanley Cup.  I'll be sorry not to see him back, but its a trade-off I'd be willing to make :P


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users