gdt 12/4 GDT : Flyers 6 at Red Wings 3

[wings_fanatic 677]

well, here you are wrong...dead wrong. I will NEVER support Cleary, Q, Franzen or Babs dumb ass coaching decisions to play Cleary over Tootoo and ahead of Weiss in the line combos. Those facts will never change even if they win the Cup. And since you have known me on here for years, I am hardly coming out of the woodworks to talk crap about said players...

I don't know what you have been watching lately, but Franzen has been fantastic since he came back from the games he missed. I agree with you about Cleary and Quincy, both of them are awful and need to go. But, while Babs does make questionalble calls, he got us within 1 win of beating the Hawks last year in the playoffs, and we would of had we not lost Danny D and had Helm. The fact is, that Babcock was not given a healthy team to work with last year at all, and is having the same issue this year. When this team is fully healthy, and all the young guns are playing like they are now, we are going to be good. I will be patient because, come playoffs, when this team is healthy and together, I trust Babcock will bring them far, especially for Alfie.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Our PP may have scored another goal or two, and PK would have been better in terms of skaters, but the way Howard was dodging pucks out there, I don't know how much better things would have been. He got 3 goals worth of support, but let in 5 for good measure. Not only is it the goals themselves in terms of the scoreboard, but when he lets in a stinker he is noticeably rattled, and the team seems to pick up on that and deflate.

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Which goal of Phillys tonight qualifies as a stinker? Please explain.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Uhh the first and third goals were great shots he never saw due to screens. Those will go in 90% of the time on any goalie. The 2nd was a defensive breakdown that unfortunately slid under his pad. He had no shot on the 4th due to man left open on the back post. The only goal you can question on him was the Hartnell shot. Philly was the better team for most of the game other than when they took all the penalties in the 2nd. Detroit outshot Philly but Philly chances were all a heck of a lot better than Detroits. Mason really only had to make one big save. The rest were routine. I know everyone here loves to jump on the goalie but look at each goal individually and youll see that he had no shot on three of those goals. You just have to hope the puck hits him and he was in the right position they were just good shots.

Tell the other goaltenders in the league who stop more pucks that they don't need to worry about the screened shots or anything that might constitute a decent scoring chance. It would be one thing if he let in one or two, here or there, but he seemingly never makes the save.

[wings_fanatic 677]

Uhh the first and third goals were great shots he never saw due to screens. Those will go in 90% of the time on any goalie. The 2nd was a defensive breakdown that unfortunately slid under his pad. He had no shot on the 4th due to man left open on the back post. The only goal you can question on him was the Hartnell shot. Philly was the better team for most of the game other than when they took all the penalties in the 2nd. Detroit outshot Philly but Philly chances were all a heck of a lot better than Detroits. Mason really only had to make one big save. The rest were routine. I know everyone here loves to jump on the goalie but look at each goal individually and youll see that he had no shot on three of those goals. You just have to hope the puck hits him and he was in the right position they were just good shots.

It isn't that he is "letting in bad goals" its that he isn't making timely, key saves that he needs to to win us games. Like it or not, the job of a goalie is to make key saves to win games for his team. The numbers do not lie... he is failing to do that consistently this season. Like it or not, Monster deserves to be getting more starts here and to be honest, I feel much calmer with Monster in net then Jimmy, and I feel that the team feels that way as well.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

If it makes you feel better Schneider blew two late 3rd period leads tonight.

I'm about on the same page as puckbags, sucks that we lost, we aren't going 82-0-0 every season. Games like this have happened before, they will happen again. If being passive aggressive towards your fellow fans about it and preaching lineup and roster setups that will make zero difference on how this team goes forward because you have no control over it makes you feel better than that's on you.

We are down our top 2 offensive threats. We are down one of our best defensive players in Dekeyser. There was an extreme difference in line combinations tonight and took a lead midway through the game. As its happened many times before, especially in the playoffs last year, the lead was blown and the game was lost.

This is still a playoff team, our overall record is still pretty great all things considered. The season isn't even 1/3rd of the way done and NO TEAM plays consistently excellent hockey through the entire season. It just doesn't happen.

I choose to not get into arguments and point fingers because it makes the loss sting even more. People handle things how they want to handle things, no one should be disrespected for taking either approach, but don't expect people to enjoy taking disrespect with a smile when you confront them directly on their opinion. If we all felt the same way and acted the same way about everything this would be a pretty boring discussion forum. Just keep it civil because you are among fellow fans.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

It isn't that he is "letting in bad goals" its that he isn't making timely, key saves that he needs to to win us games. Like it or not, the job of a goalie is to make key saves to win games for his team. The numbers do not lie... he is failing to do that consistently this season. Like it or not, Monster deserves to be getting more starts here and to be honest, I feel much calmer with Monster in net then Jimmy, and I feel that the team feels that way as well.

Im not saying Monster shouldnt be getting more starts. THe guy is playing well. Im saying you cant throw this entire game on Howard. Two of the goals have to go on terrible defense leaving men open. If your going to put the blame on a goalie for not "making a big save" on shots he cant see you have to put equal blame on the defense for not clearing those screens out. It cant be one and not the other.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Which goal of Phillys tonight qualifies as a stinker? Please explain.

The name of the game is stop the puck. He doesn't stop the puck. Sure he gets a lot of screened shots from time to time, but he has trouble with everything from a wraparound to a wrister from the dot. Every other goaltender in the league sees the same. Excusing him for not making the difficult saves is getting obnoxious when he has tanked more times than not this season. Puck on net, puck in net is not a good trend.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Tell the other goaltenders in the league who stop more pucks that they don't need to worry about the screened shots or anything that might constitute a decent scoring chance. It would be one thing if he let in one or two, here or there, but he seemingly never makes the save.

Actually he was making them all game. Philly had guys in his grill the entire night. At some point they are going to go in.

[The Greek 323]

Uhh the first and third goals were great shots he never saw due to screens. Those will go in 90% of the time on any goalie. The 2nd was a defensive breakdown that unfortunately slid under his pad. He had no shot on the 4th due to man left open on the back post. The only goal you can question on him was the Hartnell shot. Philly was the better team for most of the game other than when they took all the penalties in the 2nd. Detroit outshot Philly but Philly chances were all a heck of a lot better than Detroits. Mason really only had to make one big save. The rest were routine. I know everyone here loves to jump on the goalie but look at each goal individually and youll see that he had no shot on three of those goals. You just have to hope the puck hits him and he was in the right position they were just good shots.

I've given up trying to defend goalies when talking to those who have never played the position. They don't understand the technical nuances involved. Howar has not been playing well, but he is far from the cause of our losses.

Monster's record is fool's gold IMO. It's like valverde's 50 save season. When you watch monster play, he's not nearly as technically sound as Howard. Monster overcommits and he his recovery ability is very poor.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I was really hoping for Weiss to step up tonight...

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

The name of the game is stop the puck. He doesn't stop the puck. Sure he gets a lot of screened shots from time to time, but he has trouble with everything from a wraparound to a wrister from the dot. Every other goaltender in the league sees the same. Excusing him for not making the difficult saves is getting obnoxious when he has tanked more times than not this season. Puck on net, puck in net is not a good trend.

Yes but you said he lets in stinkers and thus demoralizes the team and thats why the lost. Im asking which specifically was a stinker. If you cant really explain as being a stinker your argument holds no merit. Im not saying Jimmy cant play better Im saying throwing him under the bus as the reason they lost tonight is completely incorrect.

[joesuffP 1,746]

There was about 8 shots that could have went for goals Howard made good saves on 3 of those. The rest were routine saves. No whiffed on goals but he's not playing like his contract and has rarely played at the level of his contract his whole career

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

@AnsarKhanMLive: Babcock said Gustavsson will start Friday at New Jersey. Said he couldn't really comment on Howard's game without breaking down the tape.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

is the howard experiment over now??

[LeftWinger 4,949]

I hear ya fanatic! But if anyone has been here long enough knows that I hate Franzen with a passion. When he decides to do good, I look at it as increasing his trade value. Sure he has played well recently, but Holland chose to give up a 40+ goal scorer for Franzen and since then Franzen has churned poop and gotten worse every year since his "serious contract."

He is hardly the reason they lost tonight, but even if he scored three goals tonight and finished with 25 again, I still cannot stand him and will never support or root for him. that is just the way it goes and that is why I always talk about getting rid of him...I did the same thing with Hudler, eventually he was gone. I can only hope Franzen follows suit...and not after his contract is up! Soon!

[DatsyukToZetterberg 128]

Well, Weiss didn't score 45 goals and assist on another 8765. Better lock him in the cellar and burn his jersey.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

I've given up trying to defend goalies when talking to those who have never played the position. They don't understand the technical nuances involved. Howar has not been playing well, but he is far from the cause of our losses.

Monster's record is fool's gold IMO. It's like valverde's 50 save season. When you watch monster play, he's not nearly as technically sound as Howard. Monster overcommits and he his recovery ability is very poor.

Monster has a bit more luck on his side because his behemoth of a body happens to stop the puck more often in desperation situations. With size is reduced agility which i'm sure is something he's battled with his entire life as a goaltender.

Howard won't adjust this rut he's in if he keeps sitting and forfeiting starts to Gus.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I've given up trying to defend goalies when talking to those who have never played the position. They don't understand the technical nuances involved. Howar has not been playing well, but he is far from the cause of our losses.

Monster's record is fool's gold IMO. It's like valverde's 50 save season. When you watch monster play, he's not nearly as technically sound as Howard. Monster overcommits and he his recovery ability is very poor.

Maybe I am missing some technical nuance, being of the unwashed masses, but is his job not to keep pucks out of the net? Is Howard technically playing better, you know, for style points and technique?

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Monster has a bit more luck on his side because his behemoth of a body happens to stop the puck more often in desperation situations. With size is reduced agility which i'm sure is something he's battled with his entire life as a goaltender.

Howard won't adjust this rut he's in if he keeps sitting and forfeiting starts to Gus.

dude...howard looks so lethargic sometimes...well most of the time....he makes the first stop..BAM...then its like he is stuck in slow mo and never moves...and they get a rebound and bam they score...

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

@asktheduffer: Hey #redwings fans, if you weren't already feeling bad enough, guess who won the JLA 50-50 draw tonight - Ed Olczyk, that's who.

Edit:I would cry if I weren't

Edited December 5, 2013 by BottleOfSmoke

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

@asktheduffer: Hey #redwings fans, if you weren't already feeling bad enough, guess who won the JLA 50-50 draw tonight - Ed Olczyk, that's who.

Edit:I would cry if I weren't

Talk about salt in the wound.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

I know Babcock only can work with what he is given, but for peetes sake, Cleary in the top 6? on the PP? People question why Weiss isn't putting up the numbers...well playing on the 4th line doesn't give him many opportunities...and prior to tonight he was playing with Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon. Weiss should be the #2 center period. Put ALfie and Tatar next to him and watch the magic. When the top center's went down, who does Babcock put in their place? Franzen at center...that is the crap I question...

[joesuffP 1,746]

Well, Weiss didn't score 45 goals and assist on another 8765. Better lock him in the cellar and burn his jersey.

Weiss is paid 5M and is pitiful. He's had more than enough time and hasn't shown a smidge of skill. He looks like a smaller and weaker drew miller. Probably the worst contract signed this summer in the nhl and I am a big holland fan and I usually try to defend his moves

[Aznknight 139]

If this was NHL 14 I would trade Howard right now.

But...we like our team.

[RedWang 422]

Bahahaha Edzo winning the raffle tonight is absolutely par for the course tonight. Hilarious.