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Shawn Thornton attacks Orpik (leaves game on stretcher)


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#21 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:50 PM

I must disagree in that for a long time there absolutely was an established, albeit unwritten, code.  It died when the instigator rule came in.  Sure, back in the guy some guys were playing on the edge or over it, but they knew they would have to answer the bell for it later on.  That doesn't happen anymore.  That coupled with the increase in equipment protection has led to complete disrespect amongst a lot of the players.

 

Thornton also knows he'll have to answer it some day.  He's not Matt Cooke.  He's an enforcer who fights a lot and he knows he'll fight the Pens top fighters the next time they meet.  He just went over the line like guys like Probert, Odjick and Brown would do on occasions.        

 

The only thing that has changed over the years, is disrespect from players on high hits and hits from behind.  That I will agree with.  But an incident like this from a scrum is something that's always occured from time to time.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 07 December 2013 - 09:56 PM.

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#22 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:54 PM

There was nothing wrong with the hit on Eriksson. Why would orpik need to fight Thornton? If he wanted to fight anyone for a cheap shot it's Neal.
Gutless on thorntons part. Prick deserves at least 10.


Well there was something wrong with the hit. The defenseman left erikson out to get nailed. But remember players don't always see the hits as they happen and they are the result. Erikson was also coming back from an injury that's why Thornton went and challenged him.

Then Neal kneed marchand in the head which he deserves a huge suspension for. And Thornton was on the ice for this. He should've gone after neal but he immediently went off the ice so Thornton then grabbed orpik and he fell which I have no problem with. What I do have a problem is once orpik fell Thornton then hit him two or three times for sure(may of been more but hard to see with so many people grabbing him). And Thornton should get 5 games for it. But this would've been avoided if orpik would've fought him earlier or if Neal didn't go to bench.

Edited by DeGraa55, 07 December 2013 - 09:57 PM.


#23 kipwinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:55 PM

 

Well your post was about what the code has become.  I'm just pointing out that enforcers haven't always followed the code in earlier eras.  Not sure why you think it has become worse than it was before.  

 

The code has never been anything more than a word with no real definition.     

 

I actually agree with that.  I was trying to make a statement to those who defend fighting because of "the code", which is a joke.  I've never thought it meant much, and when things like this happen it's even more obvious how silly it is.  I don't think it's become worse, I think that nobody even pretends anymore. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#24 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:56 PM

Well there was something wrong with the hit. The defenseman left erikson out to get nailed. But remember players don't always see the hits as they happen and they are the result. Erikson was also coming back from an injury that's why Thornton went and challenged him.
Then Neal kneed marchand in the head which he deserves a huge suspension for. And Thornton was on the ice for this. He should've gone after neal but he immediently went off the ice so Thornton then grabbed orpik and he fell which I have no problem with. What I do have a problem is once orpik fell Thornton then hit him two or three times for sure(may of been more but hard to see with so many people grabbing him). And Thornton should get 5 games for it. But this would've been avoided if orpik would've fought him earlier or if Neal didn't go to bench.



#25 dirtydangles

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 09:58 PM

Well there was something wrong with the hit. The defenseman left erikson out to get nailed. But remember players don't always see the hits as they happen and they are the result. Erikson was also coming back from an injury that's why Thornton went and challenged him.

Then Neal kneed marchand in the head which he deserves a huge suspension for. And Thornton was on the use for this. He should've gone after Erikson but he immediently went off the ice so Thornton then grabbed orpik and he fell which I have no problem with. What I do have a problem is once orpik fell Thornton then hit him two or three times for sure(may of been more but hard to see with so many people grabbing him). And Thornton should get 5 games for it. But this would've been avoided if orpik would've fought him earlier or if Neal didn't go to bench.

Thornton tripped Orpik - he put his leg behind to prevent Orpik from balancing. I think this is overstepping by Thornton considering Orpik didn't do anything outside the rules. Initially I thought he was the one who kneed Marchand - that is worth some retaliation - but that should be done to Neal. I'm actually wondering how serious the injury to Orpik was because he didn't look like he banged his head hard on the ice or got hit too bad from Thornton - i've seen far worse do the same damage. Anyways - we will see what Shanny does with this. I can see Neal getting away with nothing and claiming it was an accident.


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#26 kipwinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:00 PM

Well there was something wrong with the hit. The defenseman left erikson out to get nailed. But remember players don't always see the hits as they happen and they are the result. Erikson was also coming back from an injury that's why Thornton went and challenged him.

Then Neal kneed marchand in the head which he deserves a huge suspension for. And Thornton was on the ice for this. He should've gone after neal but he immediently went off the ice so Thornton then grabbed orpik and he fell which I have no problem with. What I do have a problem is once orpik fell Thornton then hit him two or three times for sure(may of been more but hard to see with so many people grabbing him). And Thornton should get 5 games for it. But this would've been avoided if orpik would've fought him earlier or if Neal didn't go to bench.

 

Watch it again, Orpik didn't fall.  Thornton tripped him with his foot, from behind, and began to punch him.  It was dirty, cheap, and misdirected. 

 

What a puke.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#27 wings87

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:00 PM

This makes me want to puke.  We should roll this into the "retaliation" thread just so everybody can get a good look at what the "code" has become.  Hit a guy clean, and some mongoloid comes along and cripples you just for the sake of being a tough guy.  Ugh, how can people even pretend that there's some sort of honor in NHL fighting these days?


Assaulting someone on the ice is not "retaliation" it's assault plain and simple.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#28 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:03 PM

Thornton tripped Orpik - he put his leg behind to prevent Orpik from balancing. I think this is overstepping by Thornton considering Orpik didn't do anything outside the rules. Initially I thought he was the one who kneed Marchand - that is worth some retaliation - but that should be done to Neal. I'm actually wondering how serious the injury to Orpik was because he didn't look like he banged his head hard on the ice or got hit too bad from Thornton - i've seen far worse do the same damage. Anyways - we will see what Shanny does with this. I can see Neal getting away with nothing and claiming it was an accident.




Even though it wasn't an accident....but I sadly it wouldn't surprise me.



Also I feel like orpik shouldn't of even been hurt....idk. I think the only reason this is being discussed is because he left on stretcher which i don't know why he needed to.

#29 AusWing40

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:03 PM

So because Thornton couldn't wait to get to Neal he just goes after Orpik? And takes him down and punches him. Just because he wanted to stand up for his team he did it in the most moronic way imagineable.

If he's sending a message either challenge Neal when you can, or challenge their fighters and send it that way. There's no justification for what he did, and I'll be disappointed if it's not at least 10 games.

#30 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:06 PM

 

I actually agree with that.  I was trying to make a statement to those who defend fighting because of "the code", which is a joke.  I've never thought it meant much, and when things like this happen it's even more obvious how silly it is.  I don't think it's become worse, I think that nobody even pretends anymore. 

 

I will say that it's rare to see an enforcer grab a Joe Sakic or Nicklas Lidstrom type and start pounding away.  That's about the only part of "the code" that I agree with existing, namely that an enforcer shouldn't randomly grab a star player and start punching him.    

 

In this case, Orpik doesn't count as a star player.  He's always played a chippy game.  Thornton wouldn't have done that to Malkin or Crosby.  

 

But alas, even star players have been forced into fights before.  I remember Tinordi fighting Lidstrom a long time ago.  Carcillo fighting Gaborik a few years ago also comes to mind.  That type of thing is rare, though.  

 


Even though it wasn't an accident....but I sadly it wouldn't surprise me.



Also I feel like orpik shouldn't of even been hurt....idk. I think the only reason this is being discussed is because he left on stretcher which i don't know why he needed to.

 

I hate to bring this up, but in that sense, it reminds me of Bertuzzi.  If Orpik gets up right away, this doesn't even make the nightly news.  


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#31 wings87

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

I would argue that what Neal did was worse and more Dangerous. Since Marchand was on the ground already and in a highly compromised position. What Thornton did was just gutless, why go after Orpik he wasn't the one who kneed Marchand, did he not have the balls to go get Neal.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#32 kipwinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

Even though it wasn't an accident....but I sadly it wouldn't surprise me.



Also I feel like orpik shouldn't of even been hurt....idk. I think the only reason this is being discussed is because he left on stretcher which i don't know why he needed to.

 

Oh, well you don't think he should be hurt so it's all good.  Thank god it's as cut and dry as that.  Do you have any idea how Orpik was actually injured, or were you just basing this assessment on your obviously profound medical knowledge?  Thornton wasn't being a jackass, Orpik is just not tough enough.  Right.

 

Keep blaming the victim dude, that's always a good call.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#33 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:09 PM

So because Thornton couldn't wait to get to Neal he just goes after Orpik? And takes him down and punches him. Just because he wanted to stand up for his team he did it in the most moronic way imagineable.
If he's sending a message either challenge Neal when you can, or challenge their fighters and send it that way. There's no justification for what he did, and I'll be disappointed if it's not at least 10 games.



You're missing the part of what orpik did. Thornton obviously didn't see the hit he did but saw the result and thought it was dirty. He was getting him because of that.

#34 beachwing

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:13 PM

WHY DOES ORPICK HAVE TO FIGHT??

#35 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:14 PM

Oh, well you don't think he should be hurt so it's all good.  Thank god it's as cut and dry as that.  Do you have any idea how Orpik was actually injured, or were you just basing this assessment on your obviously profound medical knowledge?  Thornton wasn't being a jackass, Orpik is just not tough enough.  Right.
 
Keep blaming the victim dude, that's always a good call.



Or maybe you should use your god given eyeballs and watch the replay. It didn't look like it was serious enough for anyone to get injured. His head didn't hit the ice so its not that...his shoulder did so maybe its an injury related to that but why a stretcher? The 2-3 hits weren't that hard either....I'm sure orpik has been hit harder.

#36 AusWing40

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:16 PM

You're missing the part of what orpik did. Thornton obviously didn't see the hit he did but saw the result and thought it was dirty. He was getting him because of that.


So Thornton still looks like an ass for going after someone for a clean hit. Guy wanted to make a point and did it like a jackass. How anyone can try to justify or defend it is beyond me.

Or maybe you should use your god given eyeballs and watch the replay. It didn't look like it was serious enough for anyone to get injured. His head didn't hit the ice so its not that...his shoulder did so maybe its an injury related to that but why a stretcher? The 2-3 hits weren't that hard either....I'm sure orpik has been hit harder.


It's not always about how hard you get hit. You can get a full blown punch and be fine, but get a normal punch on the sweet spot and you're out cold.

#37 DeGraa55

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:18 PM

So Thornton still looks like an ass for going after someone for a clean hit. Guy wanted to make a point and did it like a jackass. How anyone can try to justify or defend it is beyond me.

It's not always about how hard you get hit. You can get a full blown punch and be fine, but get a normal punch on the sweet spot and you're out cold.




Idk anyone who is defending him? I clearly said he should be suspended but I guess some people are too stupid to see that?

#38 wings87

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:19 PM

Crap after the whistle is moronic. You want to get back at the other team? Lay a big clean hit during play.
One dimensional players like Thornton give toughness in the NHL a bad reputation.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#39 kipwinger

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:19 PM

Or maybe you should use your god given eyeballs and watch the replay. It didn't look like it was serious enough for anyone to get injured. His head didn't hit the ice so its not that...his shoulder did so maybe its an injury related to that but why a stretcher? The 2-3 hits weren't that hard either....I'm sure orpik has been hit harder.

 

My god, I can't imagine the kind of mental gymnastics you have to go through to come to the conclusion that Thornton did nothing wrong and Orpik "shouldn't" be hurt.  It's incredible.  Forget about us taking your posts seriously, how do you even type this stuff with a straight face.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#40 wings87

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:24 PM

So Thornton still looks like an ass for going after someone for a clean hit. Guy wanted to make a point and did it like a jackass. How anyone can try to justify or defend it is beyond me.

It's not always about how hard you get hit. You can get a full blown punch and be fine, but get a normal punch on the sweet spot and you're out cold.

I completely agree I think Orpik got hurt because he wasn't prepared for it not unlike a blindside hit that's what's so dangerous about what Thornton did. But let's also through Neal in there, his knee was the definition of intent to injure, he just got lucky that Marchand wasn't carted off the ice too.

Edited by wings87, 07 December 2013 - 10:26 PM.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 






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