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nyqvististhefuture

Can't remember the last time we were this pathetic

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really frustrating time to be a redwings fan , i cant remember a time we been this bad , struggling so bad to score goals and yet we have so much talent on this team , seems lately were lucky if we score 2 goals in a game

And my personal opinion i been sayin for a year now we got too many 4th line type players(thats my nice way of saying garbage players)

cleary samuelsson bertuzzi eaves tootoo miller and now glendening

7 guys id consider 4th liners (not including andersson who id keep) thats way too many , we should be bringing up sheahan/ferraro/callahan guys who are out of waivers to see what they can do instead of bringing up another guy who's reliable but cant create any offense(glendening)

were so pathetic right now we call up a 20 yr old kid in jurco whos playing amazing in the ahl to try and help us out of this disaster (id personally keep him down and let him dominate why chance it and ruin his progress)

anyways all this to say i hope they wake the F up cause i cant remember a time we been this bad hope we turn this thing around

a bit off topic here but im also a cowboys fan so hasnt been a good night or season for that matter

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Sheahan, Ferraro, and Callahan are 4th liners, too. No better than what is already here. Just younger. I think a strong dose of fresh blood is needed... this team is stale. Too many guys who have been here for too long, too comfortable. That includes management and coaching. Status quo has become acceptable. For a team that says they expect to win, not winning seems to be OK. You can't have it both ways...

Dabura likes this

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Ummm..........last season.

Don't forget, we needed a miracle in the final week to make the playoffs.

ya thats true man but we had the 'it was a shortened season excuse" but ya been a while we been struggling but this season i find theres not too many games were scoring 2+ goals its been horrific

holland has prove hes got some magic still left in him and get rid of some of these wastes , maybe trade a few to a struggling team for someone who might be struggling there who might work here?? who knows but something

all i know is id like to see more ahl ready kids who are hungry and get a shot , id personally wanna see sheahan and callahan called up at the same time, sheahan is a big body (6'2)and callahan is an agitator who hits and be nice on the 4th

all i know is some changes need to be made

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Don't forget injuries have been ridiculous. That may have a little something to do with it. There's nothing wrong with the core of this team just all the talent isn't playing right now

Babs should be able to figure out how to net a goal or two here and there though

Edited by joesuffP

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Sheahan, Ferraro, and Callahan are 4th liners, too. No better than what is already here. Just younger. I think a strong dose of fresh blood is needed... this team is stale. Too many guys who have been here for too long, too comfortable. That includes management and coaching. Status quo has become acceptable. For a team that says they expect to win, not winning seems to be OK. You can't have it both ways...

younger and hungrier ... i think sheahan could have potential to be a 3rd liner maybe higher down the road? not counting on it but franzen wasnt suppose to be more than a 3rd-4th liner either and callahan can get in peoples faces and hit and get the occasional fights and ferraro has alot of speed

cleary is done samuelsson is done bertuzzi is big but almost 40 , we need some fresh blood like you said , to many guys here being brought back and refusing to let go(those 3 i just mentioned are a perfect example + miller)

Don't forget injuries have been ridiculous. That may have a little something to do with it.

thats very true but i do believe we struggled in games with most of the lineup healthy? alfredsson bertuzzi almost 40 or 40+ alot of similiar 4th line type players weiss being a bust + injuries just so many bad things happening with the wings

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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ya thats true man but we had the 'it was a shortened season excuse" but ya been a while we been struggling but this season i find theres not too many games were scoring 2+ goals its been horrific

holland has prove hes got some magic still left in him and get rid of some of these wastes , maybe trade a few to a struggling team for someone who might be struggling there who might work here?? who knows but something

all i know is id like to see more ahl ready kids who are hungry and get a shot , id personally wanna see sheahan and callahan called up at the same time, sheahan is a big body (6'2)and callahan is an agitator who hits and be nice on the 4th

all i know is some changes need to be made

Exactly the kind of players Holland hasn't liked in the past. I'm glad he's finally drafting bigger players lately, but then he brings back guys like Sammy and Cleary when they're obviously not as effective as the young guns.

nyqvististhefuture likes this

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The sad thing is some people honestly believed we would be like top three in the east. Were right where I thought wed be because honestly we don't have the talent. We have some great players don't get me wrong. But as the OP said we got too many fourth line players. Some of them are great fourth line players! But you can't have 10 fourth line players in your line up on a consistent basis.

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the thing that blows my mind is how we keep putting samuelsson on the point on the 2nd ppl every time he plays , the guy ALWAYS turns the puck over on the ppl or takes a bad shot and we lose ppl time but yet hes always out there instead of putting smith or some other d , call up almquist for christ sake hed be awesome on the 2nd ppl unit

this teams living in the past man thats why i hated the drew miller signing , not cause he sucks but 3 years?? not when we got so many 4th liners and some ahl kids coming up ..... cleary was about to walk away but we bring him back cause his "heart was in detroit"

i just hope we dont get loyal again and sign him in the off season , some of these guys seriously need to go

roboturner and dirtydangles like this

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This isn't a surprise. We have been trending down for a few years now. The young guys are not players that can carry a team right now-too young or too limited. Holland's patch and plug methods haven't worked. Yes we may make the PO's, but then again 53% of the teams do. That isn't a huge thing. We need a major injection of talent that is proven.

esteef likes this

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Not trying to derail the thread, nor create animosity here with my comment...

Maybe it's time that this team needs someone else to run things (as in a new GM).

Thoughts?

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This isn't a surprise. We have been trending down for a few years now. The young guys are not players that can carry a team right now-too young or too limited. Holland's patch and plug methods haven't worked. Yes we may make the PO's, but then again 53% of the teams do. That isn't a huge thing. We need a major injection of talent that is proven.

the young kids need to play to get experience only way youll get talent that is proven is to get a #1 pick and that aint happening , i do believe once the playoffs start our game goes up we almost(and should have) knocked off the hawks last season

add in a few more key players and subtract some i think we can compete , id personally love to see steve ott here if the cost isnt too crazy he'd be perfect for the playoffs and now someone who hits alot we havent had a player like that since dallas drake retired , too many similiar types of players here

Not trying to derail the thread, nor create animosity here with my comment...

Maybe it's time that this team needs someone else to run things (as in a new GM).

Thoughts?

iv'e thought of that but i dont think its time quite yet to replace him and who would we replace him with??? yzermans gone , nills gone ... id say draper could succeed him down the road? until then let him stay? i mean what other ex redwings can he recoop now???? lol filppula and hudler aint coming back he already got quincey samuelsson bertuzi ... not much out there

think were safe from ian white ... id say wait and see if he can pull some magic at the deadline first

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It might be getting to that time. Holland has been great for a long time. But he is making far to many mistakes lately. Every player can't play until 40. he also seems to be building teams based on the idea of how he wished the NHL was, not the way it actually is.


Why does it have to be someone from the inside? Time for new blood. An outsider would be great. New fresh ideas and perspectives.

Edited by Richdg
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the young kids need to play to get experience only way youll get talent that is proven is to get a #1 pick and that aint happening , i do believe once the playoffs start our game goes up we almost(and should have) knocked off the hawks last season

add in a few more key players and subtract some i think we can compete , id personally love to see steve ott here if the cost isnt too crazy he'd be perfect for the playoffs and now someone who hits alot we havent had a player like that since dallas drake retired , too many similiar types of players here

iv'e thought of that but i dont think its time quite yet to replace him and who would we replace him with??? yzermans gone , nills gone ... id say draper could succeed him down the road? until then let him stay? i mean what other ex redwings can he recoop now???? lol filppula and hudler aint coming back he already got quincey samuelsson bertuzi ... not much out there

think were safe from ian white ... id say wait and see if he can pull some magic at the deadline first

If there were a regime change - we're talking going outside the 'reservation', and fresh blood to run things.

I agree that time has not yet arrived - however it burns me up that we didn't give the kids from GR a greater role at the start of this season.

It might be getting to that time. Holland has been great for a long time. But he is making far to many mistakes lately. Every player can't play until 40. he also seems to be building teams based on the idea of how he wished the NHL was, not the way it actually is.

Why does it have to be someone from the inside? Time for new blood. An outsider would be great. New fresh ideas and perspectives.

Agree with your last sentence; if a change is needed - at this point I'd want some new faces...Not sure if the time is right, or if it'll happen anytime soon...Me thinks Mike Ilitch, and Jimmy Devellano are content with Holland for now.

Edited by F.Michael

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The sad thing is some people honestly believed we would be like top three in the east. Were right where I thought wed be because honestly we don't have the talent. We have some great players don't get me wrong. But as the OP said we got too many fourth line players. Some of them are great fourth line players! But you can't have 10 fourth line players in your line up on a consistent basis.

3rd in the East is legitimately up for grabs. There's Boston, and there's Pittsburgh, and then there's the rest. Before the injuries hit we were genuinely in the mix for 3rd. We still haven't seen what this team can do with a full roster.

I agree with the second part of your post, its something I've commented on previously.

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I don't think Holland is the problem. No one could have foreseen how truly bad Weiss, Samuelsson, Cleary, and Quincey have been. Sammy has had success here and elsewhere. Cleary's success in the playoffs seems to be purely a fluke. Quincey had success everywhere but here. Weiss was Florida's #1 star, yet he's nothing here. IMO those are the glaring problems and they seem to be rooted in the system being a problem or our pro scouts being a problem.

55fan and Frozen-Man like this

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really frustrating time to be a redwings fan , i cant remember a time we been this bad , struggling so bad to score goals and yet we have so much talent on this team , seems lately were lucky if we score 2 goals in a game

And my personal opinion i been sayin for a year now we got too many 4th line type players(thats my nice way of saying garbage players)

cleary samuelsson bertuzzi eaves tootoo miller and now glendening

7 guys id consider 4th liners (not including andersson who id keep) thats way too many , we should be bringing up sheahan/ferraro/callahan guys who are out of waivers to see what they can do instead of bringing up another guy who's reliable but cant create any offense(glendening)

were so pathetic right now we call up a 20 yr old kid in jurco whos playing amazing in the ahl to try and help us out of this disaster (id personally keep him down and let him dominate why chance it and ruin his progress)

anyways all this to say i hope they wake the F up cause i cant remember a time we been this bad hope we turn this thing around

a bit off topic here but im also a cowboys fan so hasnt been a good night or season for that matter

I agree to an extent. It seems like most teams have figured out how to beat us. They don't give Datsyuk, Z, Alfredsson any space, and we don't score. A lot of plugs on this team. Guys like Holmstrom were 1 dimensional, but at least they had a dimension.

Bring back Toots.

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The thing is, rebuilding/tooling teams can and should be expected to be bad but if the front office is still believing that they are not rebulding, then well this DetroitRedWings edition is supbar. I'm not going to let the standings fool me, they can change quickly. Also it's not like this team has only played against juggernauts and they've still failed to score more than 2 goals.

Sadly, this edition just isn't exciting to watch and I'm starting to get the feeling also not a "real" team. Pasha isn't only playing bad he looks well uninterested outthere and no, I don't blame him I would have hard time too playing for a team that doesn't stick up for each other. This patchwork fix year after year isn't going to work forever, I really think next season (no matter the outcome of this one), has to be the one were the rebuild will be officially started.

Personally, I'm far from happy with the front office like Richd mentioned, this roster is built on how some guys wished the NHL was not like it is. Not having size in the top 6 is ok, but then you need to have size and grit in your bottom 6 the DetroitRedWings have neither and yet some people are wondering, why this team can't grind it out or respond when challenged, well the truth is they aren't build for that style of hockey but on the other hand, by far not skilled enough for the puck possession style = result: see at the current games...

Now the important part, how to get superstars/stars these days? Thanks to the stupid CBA and money from the best owner in all of sports other teams can now offer better deals and pay their stars with money, they usually wouldn't and shouldn't!!!! have. That's why I'm still pissed about thel ast lockout, how come no one stood up for the players and agreed to share more of their own revenue, with teams that should have long been moved to Canada?! Get 5 of the Original 6 owners in the same boat, add Aquilani, Snyder and there are 7 owners that should and could tell Mr. "grow the game" to fornicate himself and fix his questionable franchises with his own overpaid money, but no one did they've all agreed to a CBA that doesn't allow creative contracts. Really wished the NHLPA would have shown more balls and decertified, would have been in the best interest of the game.

Guess what, if tanking is the only way to get great players at the moment, then this whole system is flawed beyond everything.

At least there are some silverl inings on the horizon, the young guns are playing well and still getting better a change at the front office might finally bring a different philosophy on how to build thie DetroitRedWings and with the rising cap maybe a real star in his prime will want to come here..

tl;dr

the team is not build to succeed in the current nhl, patchwork fixes aren't going to work when your stars are aging and the upcoming UFA class has only two stars.... = rebuild time 2014/2015

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When we have Zetterberg, Helm, Weiss, DeKeyser, Howard, Franzen, Abdelkader back in the lineup, in addition to the other players who have missed significant time due to injury like Ericsson, Datsyuk and Bertuzzi, and we still aren't scoring and are losing consistently, then I will get concerned.

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When we have Zetterberg, Helm, Weiss, DeKeyser, Howard, Franzen, Abdelkader back in the lineup, in addition to the other players who have missed significant time due to injury like Ericsson, Datsyuk and Bertuzzi, and we still aren't scoring and are losing consistently, then I will get concerned.

This guy gets it.

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Yes, Holland has to go. There is no strategy, no plan, no building let alone maintaining this team.

Detroit fans and press love to play the sycophant. Holland and Babcock are untouchable. The buck never stops with either. I'm tired of it.

Holland has proven he can't be a "genius" without a big fat checkbook. Unless he can go buy a Hull or Hasek, he is lost. He has no idea how to work within the constraints of the NHL since the cap and it has been long enough. His actions this off season were mickey mouse at best. He'd probably fail picking a fantasy team. Babcock comments to the press after every pathetic loss are coming from a spectator, not a coach. While everyone see's him as a genius, I see him as a guy has blown 2 cups in game seven losses and has been wasting the talent of Zetterberg and Datsyuk for years. He has no clue how to use two of the most dynamic players in the game and they are carrying HIM on their skill and effort. Lidstrom did too of course.

Okay, I'm going back to my half mug empty of coffee now.

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When we have Zetterberg, Helm, Weiss, DeKeyser, Howard, Franzen, Abdelkader back in the lineup, in addition to the other players who have missed significant time due to injury like Ericsson, Datsyuk and Bertuzzi, and we still aren't scoring and are losing consistently, then I will get concerned.

Pretty much this. Though we weren't very impressive even when we were mostly healthy.

Edited by Dabura

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I don't think it's Holland. It's Holland and Babs not being on the same page. Babcock wants a different team than Holland does. So it's a kind of mess, round peg square hole. I think we'd be fine if we were built 100% Babcock or 100% Holland. Instead we have a hybrid where know one is really used properly. Take Datsyuk. Best player in the league, yet he is used not for scoring but to be defensive to keep subpar linemates from costing the team. Seems like Bowman and Holland were on the same page for years and it worked.

This team doesn't know where it is going.

And few teams are ever 100% healthy for very long. Waiting for a magical time when that happens is unhelpful. They need to find a way to win and learn a killer mentality. The Wings 4 years ago knew how to close out an opponent.

dobbles, GoWings1905, esteef and 1 other like this

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I don't think it's Holland. It's Holland and Babs not being on the same page. Babcock wants a different team than Holland does. So it's a kind of mess, round peg square hole. I think we'd be fine if we were built 100% Babcock or 100% Holland. Instead we have a hybrid where know one is really used properly. Take Datsyuk. Best player in the league, yet he is used not for scoring but to be defensive to keep subpar linemates from costing the team. Seems like Bowman and Holland were on the same page for years and it worked.

This team doesn't know where it is going.

And few teams are ever 100% healthy for very long. Waiting for a magical time when that happens is unhelpful. They need to find a way to win and learn a killer mentality. The Wings 4 years ago knew how to close out an opponent.

To be fair, Bowman had a lot more to work with, because Holland wasn't limited by a salary cap. Everything's easier when you can ice a lineup full of locks for the Hall of Fame and every guy in your top six is a monstrous threat every time he's on the ice and we can consistently get out of our zone with one or two effortlessly brilliant passes.

I do agree that we need a killer mentality, though. Regardless of who is and isn't in the lineup, this team has got to grow some teeth and learn to put games away when they have the chance. Not that these are new problems (how long have we been saying, "If we convert on any of our 17 PP chances, we probably win that game"?), of course.

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Again injuries are not a surprise. many of us talked about that happening in the east. guess what, it is. we did not add enough size and toughness just to make it through the grind of more physical play. Forget about fighting, that is not what I am talking about. How about some forwards that can actually stand in front of the other teams G and pick up the trash. None of our current group can do that at a high level anymore. bert is to old, franzen is well....., and the rest are to small. Same thing with crashing into the corners for lose pucks. These are things that the best teams do every night all game long. We don't and we don't have anyone coming over the next couple of years that do it either. That means trades for guys like Ryan that we passed on or signing UFA's like Clarkson that we didn't even talk to. Instead we go out and spend more money on guys like Alfie, Cleary, didn't buyout Franzen, etc......... Don't get me started on Weiss......

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