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Can't remember the last time we were this pathetic


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#21 lwing

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 07:54 AM

Yes, Holland has to go. There is no strategy, no plan, no building let alone maintaining this team. 

 

Detroit fans and press love to play the sycophant. Holland and Babcock are untouchable. The buck never stops with either. I'm tired of it. 

 

Holland has proven he can't be a "genius" without a big fat checkbook. Unless he can go buy a Hull or Hasek, he is lost. He has no idea how to work within the constraints of the NHL since the cap and it has been long enough. His actions this off season were mickey mouse at best. He'd probably fail picking a fantasy team. Babcock comments to the press after every pathetic loss are coming from a spectator, not a coach. While everyone see's him as a genius, I see him as a guy has blown 2 cups in game seven losses and has been wasting the talent of Zetterberg and Datsyuk for years. He has no clue how to use two of the most dynamic players in the game and they are carrying HIM on their skill and effort. Lidstrom did too of course. 

 

Okay, I'm going back to my half mug empty of coffee now.



#22 Dabura

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 09:08 AM

When we have Zetterberg, Helm, Weiss, DeKeyser, Howard, Franzen, Abdelkader back in the lineup, in addition to the other players who have missed significant time due to injury like Ericsson, Datsyuk and Bertuzzi, and we still aren't scoring and are losing consistently, then I will get concerned. 

 

Pretty much this. Though we weren't very impressive even when we were mostly healthy.


Edited by Dabura, 16 December 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#23 VM1138

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 09:45 AM

I don't think it's Holland. It's Holland and Babs not being on the same page. Babcock wants a different team than Holland does. So it's a kind of mess, round peg square hole. I think we'd be fine if we were built 100% Babcock or 100% Holland. Instead we have a hybrid where know one is really used properly. Take Datsyuk. Best player in the league, yet he is used not for scoring but to be defensive to keep subpar linemates from costing the team. Seems like Bowman and Holland were on the same page for years and it worked.

This team doesn't know where it is going.

And few teams are ever 100% healthy for very long. Waiting for a magical time when that happens is unhelpful. They need to find a way to win and learn a killer mentality. The Wings 4 years ago knew how to close out an opponent.
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#24 Dabura

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:00 AM

I don't think it's Holland. It's Holland and Babs not being on the same page. Babcock wants a different team than Holland does. So it's a kind of mess, round peg square hole. I think we'd be fine if we were built 100% Babcock or 100% Holland. Instead we have a hybrid where know one is really used properly. Take Datsyuk. Best player in the league, yet he is used not for scoring but to be defensive to keep subpar linemates from costing the team. Seems like Bowman and Holland were on the same page for years and it worked.

This team doesn't know where it is going.

And few teams are ever 100% healthy for very long. Waiting for a magical time when that happens is unhelpful. They need to find a way to win and learn a killer mentality. The Wings 4 years ago knew how to close out an opponent.

 

To be fair, Bowman had a lot more to work with, because Holland wasn't limited by a salary cap. Everything's easier when you can ice a lineup full of locks for the Hall of Fame and every guy in your top six is a monstrous threat every time he's on the ice and we can consistently get out of our zone with one or two effortlessly brilliant passes.

 

I do agree that we need a killer mentality, though. Regardless of who is and isn't in the lineup, this team has got to grow some teeth and learn to put games away when they have the chance. Not that these are new problems (how long have we been saying, "If we convert on any of our 17 PP chances, we probably win that game"?), of course.


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#25 Richdg

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

Again injuries are not a surprise. many of us talked about that happening in the east. guess what, it is. we did not add enough size and toughness just to make it through the grind of more physical play. Forget about fighting, that is not what I am talking about. How about some forwards that can actually stand in front of the other teams G and pick up the trash. None of our current group can do that at a high level anymore. bert is to old, franzen is well....., and the rest are to small. Same thing with crashing into the corners for lose pucks. These are things that the best teams do every night all game long. We don't and we don't have anyone coming over the next couple of years that do it either. That means trades for guys like Ryan that we passed on or signing UFA's like Clarkson that we didn't even talk to. Instead we go out and spend more money on guys like Alfie, Cleary, didn't buyout Franzen, etc......... Don't get me started on Weiss......



#26 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 11:15 AM

those old enough remember the dead things........

 


those old enough remember the dead things........


Edited by Spongewingredpants, 16 December 2013 - 11:15 AM.

My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#27 Danielsm

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:18 PM

We can make nearly two full line ups with a goalie included with just the injured players we have. We are in a slump because we are relying on Griffins and 4th line guys to step up as a first line unit. It's not going to happen. Just be lucky we get some points during this run, and worry about wins when we have our real team back.



#28 Dave

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:19 PM

Again injuries are not a surprise. many of us talked about that happening in the east. guess what, it is. we did not add enough size and toughness just to make it through the grind of more physical play. Forget about fighting, that is not what I am talking about. How about some forwards that can actually stand in front of the other teams G and pick up the trash. None of our current group can do that at a high level anymore. bert is to old, franzen is well....., and the rest are to small. Same thing with crashing into the corners for lose pucks. These are things that the best teams do every night all game long. We don't and we don't have anyone coming over the next couple of years that do it either. That means trades for guys like Ryan that we passed on or signing UFA's like Clarkson that we didn't even talk to. Instead we go out and spend more money on guys like Alfie, Cleary, didn't buyout Franzen, etc......... Don't get me started on Weiss......

 

 

Seriously, enough of this nonsense. List for me these "tough Eastern Conference teams" that people keep mentioning? The only team that may *MAY* be tougher than the big teams in the west is Boston. Outside of Boston the West is a physically superior conference.



#29 ben_usmc

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:24 PM

I don't think Holland is the problem. No one could have foreseen how truly bad Weiss, Samuelsson, Cleary, and Quincey have been. Sammy has had success here and elsewhere. Cleary's success in the playoffs seems to be purely a fluke. Quincey had success everywhere but here. Weiss was Florida's #1 star, yet he's nothing here. IMO those are the glaring problems and they seem to be rooted in the system being a problem or our pro scouts being a problem.

That is buls***! Weiss some complained, but I will grant you nobody thought the signing was this bad.  Sammy, Q, and especially Cleary.  Everyone know they sucked and were terrible choices from the very beginning.  The worst of all being Cleary.  Get rid of those 3, make Bert the player coming off the bench.  Those actions alone will be massive additions by subtractions. 


Edited by ben_usmc, 16 December 2013 - 12:28 PM.

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#30 dat's sick

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:35 PM

When we have Zetterberg, Helm, Weiss, DeKeyser, Howard, Franzen, Abdelkader back in the lineup, in addition to the other players who have missed significant time due to injury like Ericsson, Datsyuk and Bertuzzi, and we still aren't scoring and are losing consistently, then I will get concerned. 

^^^ this right here. 

 

It's pure being a spoiled fan if you expect a team to keep crusing like nothing despite being without so many of it's best players. It's a rough stretch but we can't forget how good this team was starting to look before Zetterberg and Helm went down. 



#31 GoWings1905

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:36 PM

Again injuries are not a surprise. many of us talked about that happening in the east. guess what, it is. we did not add enough size and toughness just to make it through the grind of more physical play. Forget about fighting, that is not what I am talking about. How about some forwards that can actually stand in front of the other teams G and pick up the trash. None of our current group can do that at a high level anymore. bert is to old, franzen is well....., and the rest are to small. Same thing with crashing into the corners for lose pucks. These are things that the best teams do every night all game long. We don't and we don't have anyone coming over the next couple of years that do it either. That means trades for guys like Ryan that we passed on or signing UFA's like Clarkson that we didn't even talk to. Instead we go out and spend more money on guys like Alfie, Cleary, didn't buyout Franzen, etc......... Don't get me started on Weiss......


I'm not buying the Eastern Conference made these injuries occur yet. The Red Wings lost the most man games last season playing exclusively against the West. Really every season since 2008 has been marked by significant and numerous injuries.

The Red Wings do need more size, but Holland seems to be addressing that issue in the drafts recently. I just don't think you can look at these injuries and make the conclusion playing in the East is a major factor.
 
 
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#32 F.Michael

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:38 PM

That is buls***! Weiss some complained, but I will grant you nobody thought the signing was this bad.  Sammy, Q, and especially Cleary.  Everyone know they sucked and were terrible choices from the very beginning.  The worst of all being Cleary.  Get rid of those 3, make Bert the player coming off the bench.  Those actions alone will be massive additions by subtractions. 

I gotta be honest here...I was pretty happy to see Holland re-acquire Quincey (mind you he played quite well while not donning a Detroit Red Wings sweater), but for whatever reason he hasn't been capable of playing to the level as expected...Is it the coaching - the 'system' - I honestly don't know...Some guys do well on some teams, and they flop on others.

 

That all said - I was also stoked for Weiss...See above for Weiss explanation which is similar to Quincey's.

 

Sammy & Cleary & Bert - ugh!



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#33 hooon

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:43 PM

really frustrating time to be a redwings fan , i cant remember a time we been this bad , struggling so bad to  score goals and yet we  have so much talent on this team , seems lately were lucky if we score 2 goals in a game

 

And my personal opinion i been sayin for a year now we got too many 4th line type players(thats my nice way of saying garbage  players)

 

cleary samuelsson bertuzzi eaves tootoo miller and now glendening

 

7 guys id consider 4th liners (not including andersson who id keep) thats way too many , we should be bringing up sheahan/ferraro/callahan guys who are out of waivers to see what they can do instead of bringing up another guy who's reliable but cant create any offense(glendening)

 

were so pathetic right now we call up a 20 yr old kid in jurco whos playing amazing in the ahl to try and help us out of this disaster (id personally keep him down and let him dominate why chance it and ruin his progress)

 

 

anyways all this to say i hope they wake the F up cause i cant remember a time we been this bad   hope we turn this thing around

 

 

a bit off topic here but  im also a cowboys fan so hasnt been a good night or season for that matter

 

Calling up Jurco had nothing to do with how "pathetic" the Wings are as a team, it has to do with the fact that they currently have injuries to Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Abdelkader, Franzen, etc. So let's not act like Jurco was called up as some savior for this team... the Wings have a pretty terrible injury situation right now, THAT is why these kids are getting called up, not some desperation stunt to save the season.


Edited by hooon, 16 December 2013 - 12:45 PM.

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#34 Richdg

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:21 PM

Oh yes the injury card. we are hurt. yes. have been for 5 freaking years! It is only getting worse! You would think someone would try to change that, wouldn't you.......... yes some of the injuries are new-datsyuk, DD, and Abby. but Z has had back issues for a couple of years, bert for about 6 years, Sammy is always hurt, Weiss has been injury prone the past couple of years, franzen always misses 10 games per year, on and on and on. So with this bunch of old and brittle group we move to the east, were the 10 of the top 15 in PIM and 10 of the top 15 in hits are located at, and some wonder why we are not healthy????? LOL This isn't a surprise.



#35 uk_redwing

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:29 PM

 

Pretty much this. Though we weren't very impressive even when we were mostly healthy.

 

My thoughts as well, but it's worth noting that Tampa Bay aren't exactly injury free either. Their list is nearly as big as ours with some very important players on it.

 

Good job Stamkos wasn't playing.


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#36 R-Dizzle

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:30 PM

I'll start to freak out when we get close to the playoffs, like last season.


Edited by R-Dizzle, 16 December 2013 - 01:31 PM.

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#37 b.shanafan14

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:46 PM

The Wings have been having more and more trouble in recent years scoring goals consistently. In previous seasons, it has come down to a combination players under-performing, dragging their linemates into the slump with them/reassigning lines to get those players going AND injuries constantly shuffling the lines/breaking up chemistry. This season its been a bit of both. Either way, a lot of it comes down to chemistry. That said, the main culprit are the injuries themselves.

 

You can't have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Helm, Dekeyser, (to a lesser extent) Abdelkader, and Bertuzzi all down or otherwise not 100% at the same time, while the new 2nd-line center and starting goaltender both have career-worst seasons, and expect things to be fine. Datsyuk and Bertuzzi are back, but noticeably not back to their previous form yet. Every single line is sort of just drawn out of a hat prior to each game. The kids are great, but not quite ready to be called upon for the lion's share of offense yet. Add in bad luck like last night's Nyquist goal being waived off (could have changed the game entirely) and last week's slow/non-whistle on a Gustavsson frozen puck that ended up in our net, and its starting to get comical. Right now we are getting the goaltending, but zero goal support offensively. Not long ago we were getting the scoring and having leads squandered by shoddy goaltending.

 

I'm confident once we get healthy things will pick back up, but right now we are missing very important players and everyone else is either slumping or has ever-changing linemates. Honestly, I think Babcock should be erring on the side of consistency more than anything, and when a player goes down on a line, we should do what we can to just replace that player, instead of bumping everyone up and down the depth chart.


Edited by b.shanafan14, 16 December 2013 - 01:49 PM.


#38 marcaractac

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 02:52 PM

Threads like this are hilarious



#39 joesuffP

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:18 PM

Wings young guys are playing more than they ever have and people are still blaming Holland and the vets. This is what everyone was asking for. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with this team aside from being injury prone.

What I'm seeing every night is a team playing a good team game with effort but that lacks any fire power. That could have something to do with not having Zetterberg, Helm, Abdelkader, Dekeseyer and losing Franzen halfway through the game. Yes, the team is probably feeling deflated. It would be hard not to when you see all your best teammates going down.

We all know the difference Helm makes to this team. Dekeseyer we've been without for a while now and we're probably forgetting how important he is to this Defense. Zetterberg goes without saying. He is the heart and soul of this team.

#40 dat's sick

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 03:20 PM

Oh yes the injury card. we are hurt. yes. have been for 5 freaking years! It is only getting worse! You would think someone would try to change that, wouldn't you.......... yes some of the injuries are new-datsyuk, DD, and Abby. but Z has had back issues for a couple of years, bert for about 6 years, Sammy is always hurt, Weiss has been injury prone the past couple of years, franzen always misses 10 games per year, on and on and on. So with this bunch of old and brittle group we move to the east, were the 10 of the top 15 in PIM and 10 of the top 15 in hits are located at, and some wonder why we are not healthy????? LOL This isn't a surprise.

So what do you think we should do? Trade everyone who is "injury prone" in your eyes? Acquire 3-4 enforcers that guard everyone of our injury prone players? 

Injuries are expected, that they all come at the same time to key players is not. In just a week or two we should be in better shape. Everyone just needs to calm down and ride this out. When healthy, this team is definitely making the playoffs and has a very good chance of doing so in a top 4 position in the East. 







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