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kickazz

Why the Red Wings get injured

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Because they have no legitimate enforcer. Simply said. Yes, the red wings have very skilled players who have speed. But when teams like Ottawa and Boston are out there out hitting your players 2:1 or 3:1 ratio night after night, (and I don't mean small checks, I mean big massive hits), you cant expect them to last long. Perhaps Ken Holland needs to FINALLY invest in some muscle? I cant think of any out there obviously, and Tootoo wasn't much of a success unfortunately.. but it makes you think. How much longer do the players need to get pushed around till someone gets a head or back injury. O wait.. Zetterberg just had a herniated disk....... Datsyuk got concussion symptoms, oh and so did Franzen... There's a reason the Detroit Red Wings are injury prone folks. It's cuz other teams run around and hit em. If there were enforcers, teams would think twice before laying the hits on star players.

That's my 2 cents on the situation. Please share!

Edited by kickazz

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I don't think that having an enforcer will prevent injuries... but at the same time having a player like Gazdic (young Croatian) on the 4th line would be more than welcome. We need "BALLS" : Ott, Gleason seems to be available... that could be a start... bring back Tootoo... go bigger on the bottom 6, I.E. Matt Martin...

Ideal lines:

Tatar - Dats - Z

Alf - Franzen - Nyquist

Martin - Helm - Bert

Someone who can really fight - Abdelkader - Tootoo

Weiss; trade him to Buffalo for Ott and filler

Kronwall - E

DeKe - Gleason

Smith - McQuaid

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If ONLY we had an enforcer to keep that herniated disc of Z's in line...

...and to make sure that pesky groin of Weiss' would be held accountable...

...or that Howard's knee wouldn't dare tweak itself...

For the record. Detroit (as of yesterday) sat at 10th in the league in terms of Man-Games-Lost-To-Injury, at 110. The #8 team, Montreal, is at 122 games lost. Yet, Montreal currently ranks 3rd in fighting majors at 22. Columbus is 5th in games lost to injury, 130, and 7th in fighting majors at 20. Tampa Bay is 7th in games lost at 123, and 13th in the league with 17 fighting majors. Toronto leads the league in fighting majors at 26, yet is only 2 spots back from Detroit with 97 games lost.

I just did the math. The average # of games lost to injury by any team this year is a smidge over 93 games (93.066666667, etc). Detroit's at 110, which is above average, but not astonishingly so, especially given that Detroit is tied for dead last in the league at 4 fighting majors.

As it stands, the statistics don't necessarily agree that having players who are more willing to "enforce" (a.k.a. willing to drop the gloves) translates into less games lost due to injury...

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many reasons for it. helm for example. His body is too small for the style of hockey he plays. he will always be a guy that is fighting through injuries. yes being on the small side doesn't help vs bigger guys. Having a bunch of over 30 guys don't help either. Players tend to get hurt more and take longer to recover the older they get. having guys with years of injury issues just adds to the problem.

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Because they have no legitimate enforcer. Simply said. Yes, the red wings have very skilled players who have speed. But when teams like Ottawa and Boston are out there out hitting your players 2:1 or 3:1 ratio night after night, (and I don't mean small checks, I mean big massive hits), you cant expect them to last long. Perhaps Ken Holland needs to FINALLY invest in some muscle? I cant think of any out there obviously, and Tootoo wasn't much of a success unfortunately.. but it makes you think. How much longer do the players need to get pushed around till someone gets a head or back injury. O wait.. Zetterberg just had a herniated disk....... Datsyuk got concussion symptoms, oh and so did Franzen... There's a reason the Detroit Red Wings are injury prone folks. It's cuz other teams run around and hit em. If there were enforcers, teams would think twice before laying the hits on star players.

That's my 2 cents on the situation. Please share!

You mean like how Orpik thought twice about hitting skilled winger Loui Eriksson because of all the big, bad, enforcers that Boston has? Or perhaps how James Neal didn't even consider kneeing Marchand in the head during the same game for the same reason? And certainly nobody would consider taking liberties with Phil Kessel with Orr and McLaren on the ice for Toronto.

I completely agree with everything you just said.

marcaractac, Dabura, Jedi and 3 others like this

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If ONLY we had an enforcer to keep that herniated disc of Z's in line...

...and to make sure that pesky groin of Weiss' would be held accountable...

...or that Howard's knee wouldn't dare tweak itself...

For the record. Detroit (as of yesterday) sat at 10th in the league in terms of Man-Games-Lost-To-Injury, at 110. The #8 team, Montreal, is at 122 games lost. Yet, Montreal currently ranks 3rd in fighting majors at 22. Columbus is 5th in games lost to injury, 130, and 7th in fighting majors at 20. Tampa Bay is 7th in games lost at 123, and 13th in the league with 17 fighting majors. Toronto leads the league in fighting majors at 26, yet is only 2 spots back from Detroit with 97 games lost.

I just did the math. The average # of games lost to injury by any team this year is a smidge over 93 games (93.066666667, etc). Detroit's at 110, which is above average, but not astonishingly so, especially given that Detroit is tied for dead last in the league at 4 fighting majors.

As it stands, the statistics don't necessarily agree that having players who are more willing to "enforce" (a.k.a. willing to drop the gloves) translates into less games lost due to injury...

So you go from my claim on hits per game to fighting majors. Cool. Enforcers dont necessarily have to fight they also put aggression towards opponents through hits. And it's a known fact in hockey (if you play, which i feel doubtful seeing your reactions to a basic aspect of hockey; aggression, aka what the sport is KNOWN for) fighting and hits can curve momentum. Hits can send messages to opponents. Hits make people think twice before opponents go after your star players. Hits are a non-verbal way of saying " you hit my guy, i'll hit you and embarrass you." Case and point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLX3299cVEg

Laperriere hit Lidstrom. Downey took revenge. Lappy was a mouse the rest of the series. Wings went on to continue dominating.

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You mean like how Orpik thought twice about hitting skilled winger Loui Eriksson because of all the big, bad, enforcers that Boston has? Or perhaps how James Neal didn't even consider kneeing Marchand in the head during the same game for the same reason? And certainly nobody would consider taking liberties with Phil Kessel with Orr and McLaren on the ice for Toronto.

I completely agree with everything you just said.

What's your point? I merely said wings become less prone to being injured and abused with someone, an enforcer, to protect them. Hitting and fighting is part of the game, something the Red Wings have lacked the past half decade which has cost them at many times. Some hits can cause immediate injuries. However, multiple hits over extended periods of time can also cause injuries. If the wings players weren't constantly laid out on ice, which more often than not, they are, perhaps they would last longer throughout the season. It's wear and tear, and when you are outhit every night, it takes a toll on the team. The hits per game can be reduced with an equal oppression against opponent team that allows you to send a message: "Hey don't hit my guy again cause im coming for you" Unlike Ottawas game recently where Zetterberg got abused atleast 3 -4 times open ice.

If ONLY we had an enforcer to keep that herniated disc of Z's in line...

Actually yeah. Herniated Discs can be caused due to prolonged injuries to the spine. Likely, Zetterberg being hit night and day caused wear and tear. Google it, its basic science.

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So you go from my claim on hits per game to fighting majors. Cool. Enforcers dont necessarily have to fight they also put aggression towards opponents through hits. And it's a known fact in hockey (if you play, which i feel doubtful seeing your reactions to a basic aspect of hockey; aggression, aka what the sport is KNOWN for) fighting and hits can curve momentum. Hits can send messages to opponents. Hits make people think twice before opponents go after your star players. Hits are a non-verbal way of saying " you hit my guy, i'll hit you and embarrass you." Case and point

Laperriere hit Lidstrom. Downey took revenge. Lappy was a mouse the rest of the series. Wings went on to continue dominating.

....so Downey's presence didn't prevent someone from taking liberties with our star defensman. Hmmm. So then enforcers don't prevent players from getting injured.

Got it!

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A lot of our injuries are because we have under sized players playing like big guys. Z is constantly holding off 6'4" defenders so it's not surprising he has back problems.

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Why the wings get injured

A. No enforcers on the team

B. Playing in the Eastern conference

C. injuries

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You mean like how Orpik thought twice about hitting skilled winger Loui Eriksson because of all the big, bad, enforcers that Boston has? Or perhaps how James Neal didn't even consider kneeing Marchand in the head during the same game for the same reason? And certainly nobody would consider taking liberties with Phil Kessel with Orr and McLaren on the ice for Toronto.

I completely agree with everything you just said.

Kip knows what's up.

This thread is silly.

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What's your point? I merely said wings become less prone to being injured and abused with someone, an enforcer, to protect them. Hitting and fighting is part of the game, something the Red Wings have lacked the past half decade which has cost them at many times. Some hits can cause immediate injuries. However, multiple hits over extended periods of time can also cause injuries. If the wings players weren't constantly laid out on ice, which more often than not, they are, perhaps they would last longer throughout the season. It's wear and tear, and when you are outhit every night, it takes a toll on the team. The hits per game can be reduced with an equal oppression against opponent team that allows you to send a message: "Hey don't hit my guy again cause im coming for you" Unlike Ottawas game recently where Zetterberg got abused atleast 3 -4 times open ice.

Actually yeah. Herniated Discs can be caused due to prolonged injuries to the spine. Likely, Zetterberg being hit night and day caused wear and tear. Google it, its basic science.

Now you're changing your tune. Originally you said it's because Detroit doesn't have any "enforcers". Now it's that we don't have anyone who hits. Also, I'd love for you to show how more hitting decreases the likelihood of injury. Any evidence whatsoever? Because one could easily argue that you might in fact have MORE injuries if players hit all the time (see: Helm, Darren).

But again, why let accuracy or consistency get in the way of a good rant. It's obvious that more enforcers...err...hitters...would keep this team healthier.

Edited by kipwinger

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Now you're changing your tune. Originally you said it's because Detroit doesn't have any "enforcers". Now it's that we don't have anyone who hits. Also, I'd love for you to show how more hitting decreases the likelihood of injury. Any evidence whatsoever? Because one could easily argue that you might in fact have MORE injuries if players hit all the time (see: Helm, Darren).

But again, why let accuracy or consistency get in the way of a good rant. It's obvious that more enforcers...err...hitters...would keep this team healthier.

How do you feel about McGrattan?

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Case and point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLX3299cVEg

Laperriere hit Lidstrom. Downey took revenge. Lappy was a mouse the rest of the series. Wings went on to continue dominating.

Not case and not point. That took place in a regular season game, and Laperriere tried to run Downey later on in the game. Downey did not play a single game of the playoff series between the two teams; Laperriere did, and his presence went unnoticed.

Your point has even less merit given that the game in question was the last of the season series between the two teams. Detroit won that one 4-0 also, by the way.

Edited by Crymson
Dave and dobbles like this

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Not case and not point. That took place in a regular season game, and Laperriere tried to run Downey later on in the game. Downey did not play a single game of the playoff series between the two teams; Laperriere did, and his presence went unnoticed.

Your point has even less merit given that the game in question was the last of the season series between the two teams. Detroit won that one 4-0 also, by the way.

So in other words, Downey neutered Lapperrierre.

Thanks for proving our point.

Also, don't forget that McCarty and King Leonidas played for us in those playoffs.

Edited by GMRwings1983
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So you go from my claim on hits per game to fighting majors. Cool. Enforcers dont necessarily have to fight they also put aggression towards opponents through hits. And it's a known fact in hockey (if you play, which i feel doubtful seeing your reactions to a basic aspect of hockey; aggression, aka what the sport is KNOWN for) fighting and hits can curve momentum. Hits can send messages to opponents. Hits make people think twice before opponents go after your star players. Hits are a non-verbal way of saying " you hit my guy, i'll hit you and embarrass you." Case and point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLX3299cVEg

Laperriere hit Lidstrom. Downey took revenge. Lappy was a mouse the rest of the series. Wings went on to continue dominating.

Ahem. Let us quote the book of "kickazz", chapter 7, post 140...

Because they have no legitimate enforcer...

...If there were enforcers, teams would think twice before laying the hits on star players...

Yes, I can see how one might confuse "hits" with "fights" when you yourself said the lack of an enforcer was to blame for our injuries.

But to go back to the stats...

Matt Martin (LW, NYI, 6'3" 206lbs) far and away leads the NHL in hits, at 165. Yet the Islanders sit at 86 games lost to injury. If, by your argument, big hitters translate in fewer injuries, why are the Islanders right around the NHL average in games lost? Or Tampa Bay, at 123 games lost, when they have Radko Gudas' 112 hits? Or Toronto, at 97 games lost, when they have Cody Franson's 110 hits?

At best, the teams that have some of the league leaders in hits are among the NHL average in games lost. It still appears that the numbers aren't backing you up.

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So in other words, Downey neutered Lapperrierre.

Thanks for proving our point.

I'm lost. What exactly is your guys' point? Because I thought the point of this thread was that the presence of an enforcer prevents injuries, based on the title of the thread and the OP's first sentence/response to his own question. In the case of Downey and Lappierre, Downey's presence did nothing to stop Lidstrom from getting hurt.

Now if the point has changed mid-thread to "enforcers fight other players after the damage has already been done", well I can't argue with that. Downey fought Lapierre after Lidstrom got hurt, and then the hockey game continued on.

Edited by Echolalia
Dabura and Nev like this

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We get injured because ice is hard and slippery and the other teams are big and coming at us at fast speeds and because body parts are not 100% flexible.

We need enforcers because they're fun to watch and because if someone does something to us that they shouldn't, the enforcer can give them a bad booboo back.

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