Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Babcock's Job?


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Toggers

Toggers

    Draftee

  • Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:47 PM

Does anyone think his job is in danger? I mean, each year they've done worse in the playoffs. Can he inspire his players?



#2 GoWings1905

GoWings1905

    Legend

  • Gold Booster
  • 5,275 posts

Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:56 PM

No way. I do think sometimes a coach's message can get stale after being in the same place for so long like Babs, but it seems as though his assistants provide a nice buffer.

Babs frustrates me at times with his lines and stubbornness to remove or give lesser roles to certain players. That being said, I still consider him one of the best coaches in hockey.

Most of the blame for the Red Wings lack of success since 2009 falls on Holland. He has really provided Babcock with a bunch of patchwork rosters with no identity.
 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#3 dobbles

dobbles

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 864 posts
  • Location:Tulsa, OK

Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

No way. I do think sometimes a coach's message can get stale after being in the same place for so long like Babs, but it seems as though his assistants provide a nice buffer.

Babs frustrates me at times with his lines and stubbornness to remove or give lesser roles to certain players. That being said, I still consider him one of the best coaches in hockey.

Most of the blame for the Red Wings lack of success since 2009 falls on Holland. He has really provided Babcock with a bunch of patchwork rosters with no identity.

 

i disagree. holland goes out an gets a guy like tootoo and then babcock plays him 6 minutes a game. it is not holland that puts dan cleary out there shift after shift even though he brings very little to the table. it is not holland that mixes up lines all the time.

 

now i'm not saying i think he should be fired. just that trying to displace blame onto holland is not accurate. i do think we are starting to see situations where babcock is not the most effective for us and it may be time to go a different direction in a year or two. its not that babcock is a bad coach, just maybe not the right coach for this team and organization.


Edited by dobbles, 19 December 2013 - 01:07 PM.

I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#4 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts

Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:13 PM

neither is going to get fired. yes I expect Holland to retire sometime over the next couple of years, but both will be here as long as they choose to be.

 

Now the Holland vs babcock debate over who is responsible is a solid both. Holland builds the roster. he assembles the team. Babcock then takes the roster and fields the best team in his opinion. So when a Cleary gets 15 mins of ice time who's fault is it? babcock for playing him or Holland for not having someone better on the roster to play? It does become a chicken vs egg debate.



#5 MabusIncarnate

MabusIncarnate

    The Truth Is Out There

  • Silver Booster Mod
  • 2,220 posts
  • Location:Monteagle, Tennessee

Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:24 PM

They made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and brought the cup champs to an intense game 7. They are hammered with important player injuries and are on a small losing skid because of it. Coaching only can do so much, considering the circumstances it would be pretty unfair to Babcock at this moment to even consider this his fault and jeopardize his job due to reasons beyond his control. 

 

Plus, I sound like a broken record here as I keep saying this, this team is still sitting 6th in the East and that's pretty damn impressive all things considered to be in a playoff position. Granted the Wings lead the league in OT loss points, but in this modern NHL points are points and that's what determines the overall standings. 

 

There is one resolution here, it's not the coach, it's not the GM, it's the injuries. Get healthy, and they begin to play better.


13585921555_24551f5658.jpg


#6 marcaractac

marcaractac

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,326 posts
  • Location:St. John's, newfoundland

Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

Does anyone think his job is in danger? I mean, each year they've done worse in the playoffs. Can he inspire his players?

 

False. Last season was their most impressive playoff run Since 2009. The team is under a huge transition. It will take time, but Babs is the man for the job. No question. 

 

Coaching doesn't solve growing pains for young players. Experience does. 

 

The team needs to get bigger, Holland has been drafting bigger players. How Holland gets so much flack with the kids this team has stock piled right now is baffling. He has prevented putting the team in cap hell, and has been building from within. People just have no patience. The bad contracts on the roster right now are short ones. 


Edited by marcaractac, 19 December 2013 - 01:45 PM.


#7 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,718 posts

Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

Current issues are injuries. Babs has a couple more years of this before I think his job is in danger. I think likely that would happen only if Kenny retired and a new GM had new ideas for the team.


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#8 ben_usmc

ben_usmc

    Kenny Powers Fan

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,818 posts
  • Location:ypsilanti

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:39 PM

No, but someone needs to slap somef****** sense into him. 


There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#9 GoWings1905

GoWings1905

    Legend

  • Gold Booster
  • 5,275 posts

Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:05 PM

 

i disagree. holland goes out an gets a guy like tootoo and then babcock plays him 6 minutes a game. it is not holland that puts dan cleary out there shift after shift even though he brings very little to the table. it is not holland that mixes up lines all the time.

 

now i'm not saying i think he should be fired. just that trying to displace blame onto holland is not accurate. i do think we are starting to see situations where babcock is not the most effective for us and it may be time to go a different direction in a year or two. its not that babcock is a bad coach, just maybe not the right coach for this team and organization.

 

I agree to an extent. I acknowledged in my original post that Babs makes poor personnel decisions sometimes in regards to loyalty and ice time. I don't necessarily know that Tootoo deserves more minutes with a healthy roster as he has always been a fourth liner, who is a defensive liability that doesn't kill penalties. His value is always going to be limited because of that, but I do believe it would be nice to see Tootoo remain with the Red Wings now that he is back up. Cleary's minutes have decreased significantly since early in the season. He shouldn't be getting PP time, but with six forwards out, the options are relatively limited. 

 

Those are just two examples of Babcock's questionable moves and I would argue Jordin Tootoo and Dan Cleary aren't making or breaking this team's success either way. I think we are well aware of the numerous major errors Holland has made lately. Gustav Nyquist started the season in Grand Rapids because of Holland's poor cap management. The summer of 2012 alone was a complete disaster. 

 

Both deserve some blame, but if I have to pick one, it's definitely on Holland. Babcock took a patchwork, injury riddled roster to within one game of beating the best team in hockey. This after losing Lidstrom and Stuart, while implementing a bunch of kids into the lineup at the same time. Babcock can coach if he has the pieces. I don't know if anyone in the league could have gotten more out of that Red Wings roster last season. It was severely lacking talent. 


 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#10 Red Crazy

Red Crazy

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 627 posts
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:18 PM

I don't think that Babcock's job is in danger at this point. I do find it funny that so many are blaming injuries when this team has been playing uninspired hockey all year. Injuries are part of the game and its great teams that can find a way to win with a depleted roster. A roster shake up is more needed then a coach/gm change. Too many on the bus that are not pulling their weight. 



#11 wingedominance13

wingedominance13

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 381 posts

Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:29 PM

Babcock is the best coach in hockey, bar none. In my opinion he found ways to win with a team last year that was our least skilled team since the early 90's. We as wings fans have been spoiled, when over the past 20 years did we have a team with less than four HOF players on it? Name four on this team... 

 

Babcock isn't the problem, welcome to the rebuild. 



#12 TheDetroitRedWings

TheDetroitRedWings

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,198 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:30 PM

I still think Babcock is an elite coach and definitely one of the best in the business. But if we don't make any noise in the playoffs (or God forbid miss the playoffs all-together) then we really need to consider a change... As a motivator I think Babs is second to none. The problem is, he doesn't seem to be very savvy when it comes to putting together lines, and dolling out minutes to deserving players. To the point where at times it becomes mind-boggling. Now if it were just a few minor issues that would be one thing, but these inefficiencies mentioned are very major parts of the game, that can basically make or break your team (and right now it's def more on the "break" side). But there is a long season left to go, and technically we are in a playoff spot right now despite all that's happened. So for now let's just hope we can get some healthy bodies back into the lineup and get a win-streak going. If we can stay healthy, there's no doubt in my mind we can contend for a Cup.


12041887825_d4b1d5c02f_o.jpg


#13 pucktividi

pucktividi

    the usual suspect

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
  • Location:Croatia

Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:36 PM

His job is safe,no doubt.I don't like his obsession with Cleary,nor the way he's treating young players,but he knows the team and system :lol:



#14 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,822 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:15 AM

Babcock's job is safe. For now. I can almost see him quitting before being let go. Whenever that is. My 2 cents. 



#15 hooon

hooon

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,228 posts
  • Location:Denver

Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:34 AM

Does anyone think his job is in danger? I mean, each year they've done worse in the playoffs. Can he inspire his players?

 

They got knocked out in 5 games 2 years ago.... and game 7 in the 2nd round this year.

 

How exactly is that doing worse?


Posted Image

#16 ogreslayer

ogreslayer

    1st Line All-Star

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,974 posts
  • Location:Indianapolis

Posted 20 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

Babs will be in Detroit as long as he wants to be.  When that time comes, I have a feeling it will be more due to him thinking there's no longer an opportunity for him to grow as a coach here & that he'll make the decision to leave before the Wing's brass makes that decision for him.



#17 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,931 posts

Posted 20 December 2013 - 09:38 AM

Since 2009 the playoffs results haven't been impressive given the high standards. The DetroitredWings since then have never made it further than the 2 second round, which is and should be unacceptable. The perfect human at that time was closing in to 40, so that should have been the moment for Kenny to stop his status quo and patchwork approach and be more aggressive come UFA/trade deadline.

 

As for Babs best coach in hockey by far, but every coach has a shelf life. Personally I believe he would another type of players and a more balanced roster, but I agree sometimes his line combinations aren't based on the best performance but solely on player A = veteran (plays), B != doesn't play.

 

That said I think before Babs gets the boot, a lot will have to happen: missing the playoffs back to back or getting swept in the first round at that point I think the best owner in all of sports would show him and Kenny the door. Latter would just become the VP of hockey opterations for the Ilitch holding.


Edited by frankgrimes, 20 December 2013 - 09:38 AM.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#18 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,701 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:03 AM

Bab's is ONE of the better coaches in the league.  He usually puts a quality product on the ice when that's possible.  He's got a million little "proclivities" that drive mef****** nuts, but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  You don't fire a guy if there's nobody better to replace him.  If we go two more years (this and next) with early exits (or playoff misses) I'd think about making a change.  But even then, I'd stick with a proven vet coach, don't gamble with someone unproven at the NHL level.  Personally, I like Dave Tippett.  But that's just me. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#19 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,189 posts

Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:11 AM

 

I agree to an extent. I acknowledged in my original post that Babs makes poor personnel decisions sometimes in regards to loyalty and ice time. I don't necessarily know that Tootoo deserves more minutes with a healthy roster as he has always been a fourth liner, who is a defensive liability that doesn't kill penalties. His value is always going to be limited because of that, but I do believe it would be nice to see Tootoo remain with the Red Wings now that he is back up. Cleary's minutes have decreased significantly since early in the season. He shouldn't be getting PP time, but with six forwards out, the options are relatively limited. 

 

Those are just two examples of Babcock's questionable moves and I would argue Jordin Tootoo and Dan Cleary aren't making or breaking this team's success either way. I think we are well aware of the numerous major errors Holland has made lately. Gustav Nyquist started the season in Grand Rapids because of Holland's poor cap management. The summer of 2012 alone was a complete disaster. 

 

Both deserve some blame, but if I have to pick one, it's definitely on Holland. Babcock took a patchwork, injury riddled roster to within one game of beating the best team in hockey. This after losing Lidstrom and Stuart, while implementing a bunch of kids into the lineup at the same time. Babcock can coach if he has the pieces. I don't know if anyone in the league could have gotten more out of that Red Wings roster last season. It was severely lacking talent. 

I think it's abundantly clear that Dan Cleary is Babcock's "guy" and he had a major hand in his return. I threw up in my mouth a little when Cleary was on 24/7 talking about how Babcock rewards guys for loyalty and hard work. Seemed like Holland was content to let him go and Babcock wasn't.  So if we hadn't resigned Cleary, the "poor cap management" wouldn't have been quite so poor and Nyquist likely would have started the season with the Wings.

 

Do I think Babcock's job is in jeopardy?  No, but I can't say that it doesn't bother me that Babcock has let his personal feelings get in the way of what is best for the team.



#20 amato

amato

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,632 posts

Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:38 AM

 

They got knocked out in 5 games 2 years ago.... and game 7 in the 2nd round this year.

 

How exactly is that doing worse?

 

this is what I was going to say ha.

 

but yea, we are doing worse but look at the roster changes.. you don't lose guys like lidstrom, rafalski, and even stuart in such a small time periord and continue the same level of success.

 

if anything, babs has coached this team into the playoffs the past couple seasons.. and he'll do it again year after year.

if anyone is at risk of losing their job in the NHL it's definitely not babcock.


Datsyukian

Dat·syu·ki·an [dat-soo-kee-uh n]

adjective

          1. When your moves are so amazing and beyond reason, the only way to describe them is "datsyukian."






Similar Topics Collapse

  Topic Forum Started By Stats Last Post Info

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users