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Seasons half way, thoughts?


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#41 Jersey Wing

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:55 PM

I'm normally one of the cooler heads even come playoff time but right now I am more than a little worried. We faithful keep saying if we can just get healthy but more more than a couple months that mantra doesn't work normally (Unless you are Scotty Bowman in which case it all works no matter how odd) and for once I would make a deal not just to shake things up but to let the guys not named Kronwall, Zetterberg, Alfredsson and Datsyuk (and Goose and Tatar) you're not doing enough. Bring someone in and show the four plus two I named and tell them "You're getting some help, now lead the kids and Cleary and Franzen on to victory. Those last two you might have to kick."

 

Maybe this all clicks together after the Olympics like it did in 2002 or doesn't like after 2006 and 2010. I'd still be ready to ship a couple for one.


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#42 kipwinger

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:09 PM

I'm normally one of the cooler heads even come playoff time but right now I am more than a little worried. We faithful keep saying if we can just get healthy but more more than a couple months that mantra doesn't work normally (Unless you are Scotty Bowman in which case it all works no matter how odd) and for once I would make a deal not just to shake things up but to let the guys not named Kronwall, Zetterberg, Alfredsson and Datsyuk (and Goose and Tatar) you're not doing enough. Bring someone in and show the four plus two I named and tell them "You're getting some help, now lead the kids and Cleary and Franzen on to victory. Those last two you might have to kick."

 

Maybe this all clicks together after the Olympics like it did in 2002 or doesn't like after 2006 and 2010. I'd still be ready to ship a couple for one.

 

I thought we went on a massive tear after the Olympics in 2010 to make the playoffs?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#43 JasonNewEra

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:00 PM

 

That is nuts. We aren't the Leafs. Every team has rough patches, and ours has been the last 2 seasons. Hell, the fact that we overachieved at the end of last season has probably raised everyone's expectations to the fact that we could probably go on to achieve bigger and better things. Babcock is arguably the best coach in the NHL currently, and it was evident from what they showed inside the locker room of the Wings on 24/7 that he still has the attention and ears of the players. Unlike said Leafs, who seem to take Carlyle's F bombs and constant barrage and throw it out the door. 

 

The answer here is patience. It is easy to sit here and say let's fire the coach. But realistically, what does that actually achieve? Right now this team hasn't established any kind of consistency because of injuries and a few front office errors. I don't see how canning the coach will help achieve that. But, I truly believe that we have a good future ahead of us and some exciting prospects should make it a hell of a lot of fun around here soon (see Nyqvist, Tatar, Mrazek, DeKeyser, Jurco, Mantha etc etc). We still have a couple of the best players in the world (arguably) and every team goes through ups and downs.

 

Yes it would be devastating for the Wings to not be playing in May, but is it the end of the world if they don't? I love this team as much as anyone, but if missing the playoffs is the lesson the KH and MB need to realise that they should drop the past it veterans on the Wings and go with the youth, then that's fine. (I'm hoping of course, that they won't need this to happen before they figure that out). We've had an incredible and unprecedented amount of success following this club. So please, don't let a little rough patch persuade everyone that we need to clean out the closet.  

 

Babcock still having their ear is irrelevant. Last year was a goddamn MIRACLE. At the 3/4 mark of the lockout shortened season if I said we would squeak in and make a run would you have believed me? If so, then you are more optimistic than any fan I know. Two years is to long for the DETROIT RED WINGS, especially considering we DO have the talent. You mention all these things but I don't see them turning it around any time soon.

 

I ask about firing Babcock, because that's what most teams do to shake things up. NOBODY demotes a player, rarely do you see a GM fired mid-season. Is it true that we have a ton of injuries? Of course, but GREAT teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, San Jose and Anahiem who have similar problems keep winning! Why can't we? Is it leadership? Veterans not taking the puck and rolling with it? Coaches not coaching? Lower lines not producing?

 

I guess by your thought process, you tell me?


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#44 RedWingsRox

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:19 PM

Kenny is falling into the middle of the pack too.  Some really bad decisions as of late to give Babcock crap to work with.  

 

Eg. we have got to stop wasting $$ and cap space on dead wood like Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, 

 

And Kenny has got to do better with free agent signings ... Weiss, Quincey are not cutting it.  

 

Give the young kids who are hungry some more ice time.  



#45 DeGraa55

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:19 PM

I think having an old broken down team....the Olympics won't help. It'll just be more wear and tear in guys like DAT z Alfie etc etc.

#46 Cloune

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

I feel about our game always the same way. It doesn’t matter whether some players are injured or everyone is fit. It always makes me sick. 
 
We’ve always been the slow ones, ones with no energy and no skill. We don’t have any kind of system. Any time we win, we can thank our opponents for playing significantly worse. We never enter the game leading it where we want to. So don’t tell me it’s all because of players, injured or not. allways same - injired or not

Edited by Cloune, 13 January 2014 - 10:42 AM.


#47 kipwinger

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:53 AM

Final analysis, trade Nyquist + 1st for quality top six winger with size.  Trade appropriately valued prospect and/or Kindl for Dmitri Kulikov.  Win cup.

 

(implied: clear cap space by trading various bottom end guys at the deadline for peanuts.  Literally anybody can go so long as we clear space).


Edited by kipwinger, 13 January 2014 - 10:59 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#48 frankgrimes

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:19 PM

Kenny is falling into the middle of the pack too.  Some really bad decisions as of late to give Babcock crap to work with.  

 

Eg. we have got to stop wasting $$ and cap space on dead wood like Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, 

 

And Kenny has got to do better with free agent signings ... Weiss, Quincey are not cutting it.  

 

Give the young kids who are hungry some more ice time.  

 

 

I'm still wondering, is there really nobody on GR who could replace Quincey ?


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#49 mjtm77

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:17 AM

 
 
I'm still wondering, is there really nobody on GR who could replace Quincey ?


I am wondering if you know anything about hockey management
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#50 frankgrimes

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:31 AM

I am wondering if you know anything about hockey management

 

I'm wondering, why some people just don't shut up if they have nothing useful to add.


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#51 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:44 AM

I didn't expect Howard to start off this rough. He's gotta be better than 8-10-8. He's still a little shaky here and there but he's been better lately. In a surprising twist, Gustavsson has been huge for them.



#52 VM1138

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:16 AM

Agreed. Too many let fandom get in the way. Too many think half this team is in their prime years and not well past them.


Who is past their prime besides Bertuzzi, Cleary and Sammy? Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still dominating and were having career years. Just because theyre past a certain age doesn't mean they're past their prime.

The trouble early was our roster not being diverse enough in skill set. Now we have Tatar and Nyquist finally. And they did look good that brief window when Helm was back.

I think they could be good if theyre healthy, but I'm beginning to doubt they ever will be.
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#53 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:27 AM

If this team is healthy (wishful thinking), we probably have the 3rd best lineup in the East behind Pittsburgh and Boston.

 

And that is with all of Kenny's roster mismanagement.



#54 dat's sick

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:29 AM

If this team is healthy (wishful thinking), we probably have the 3rd best lineup in the East behind Pittsburgh and Boston.

 

And that is with all of Kenny's roster mismanagement.

The big question is, how does this team look when it's fully healthy? I don't think we have the 3rd best lineup in the league if we continue to find room for Cleary and Bertuzzi and Quincey and Kindl. 

 

Imagine: 

 

Franzen-Datsyuk-Jurco

Zetterberg-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Helm-Alfredsson

Miller-Sheahan-Abdelkader



#55 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:13 PM

The big question is, how does this team look when it's fully healthy? I don't think we have the 3rd best lineup in the league if we continue to find room for Cleary and Bertuzzi and Quincey and Kindl. 

 

Imagine: 

 

Franzen-Datsyuk-Jurco

Zetterberg-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Helm-Alfredsson

Miller-Sheahan-Abdelkader

That's a good point. And your lineup is NOT what will be on display.

 

...and that is because two of those guys will be sent back down. When everyone is healthy, Holland's roster mismanagement will rear its ugly head once again.

 

I think I may have contradicted my original point, but whatever.



#56 DRW Dominance

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:54 PM

my thoughts are this.....this team can obviously be very good....hence our road record.

 

if we played with any sort of effort at home we would be close to the top of the league.

 

it's very disturbing.


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#57 Richdg

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:20 PM

Right now we are 20-16-10 with 50 points. Under the old scoring are we even a .500 team? We could have as few as 40 points under the old scoring and be 26th in the league. yes I said 26th. if you look at win totals there are only 8 teams with fewer wins. There are 3 others with 20 wins. So just from a win total we are somewhere between 18th and 22nd. Now and this is real scary, where are we as a team without D and Z carrying us? That should run tremors of fear through every RW fan. The fact that they turn 36 and 34 before next season starts should set off red lights flashing everywhere.

We are not a great team right now. In fact we are not really a good team right now. We have to make player changes in a big way. We can't sit back and wait for 1 or 2 prospects to be ready every year and expect to get to the top of the mountain anytime soon.



#58 frankgrimes

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:08 PM

Right now we are 20-16-10 with 50 points. Under the old scoring are we even a .500 team? We could have as few as 40 points under the old scoring and be 26th in the league. yes I said 26th. if you look at win totals there are only 8 teams with fewer wins. There are 3 others with 20 wins. So just from a win total we are somewhere between 18th and 22nd. Now and this is real scary, where are we as a team without D and Z carrying us? That should run tremors of fear through every RW fan. The fact that they turn 36 and 34 before next season starts should set off red lights flashing everywhere.
We are not a great team right now. In fact we are not really a good team right now. We have to make player changes in a big way. We can't sit back and wait for 1 or 2 prospects to be ready every year and expect to get to the top of the mountain anytime soon.


This is spot on thinking about this team without Z and Pasha is damn scary. The best hope I'd that some of the promising young guns are going to become regular top 6 contributors, top 4 guys bring no matter the outcome Holland needs to be more aggressive and get creative again, the team needs top eend players enterinentering their prime.

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blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

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#59 canadian wings fan

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:20 PM

Yeah obviously without Pavel and Henrik our roster looks scary bad...they're our 2 best players and overall a couple of the best players in the league. You take away any of the top teams 2 best players it looks bad.

 

If you're trying to make a point about their age, then ya I get it. But fact is these 2 still dominate. So that doesn't worry me as much.



#60 Richdg

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:28 PM

Except for the fact that they are now getting hurt more often and this will only get worse as they age.







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