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#21 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 02:55 AM

Don't see the Wings beating Boston or Pittsburgh in a 7 game series...healthy or not

#22 number9

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 02:56 AM

Our lineup from tonight's game:

3rd liner - 1st liner - 2nd liner

AHLer - AHLer - 3rd liner
4th liner - 4th liner - 4th liner

4th liner - AHLer - 4th liner

top2 - top6
top6 - top4

top6 - top6

You don't win iceing that team, Red Wings or not.

I know we like to blame Holland for Quincey, Cleary and Sammy... but that's not the problem at all right now. Without them we'd have even more AHLers up... AHLers that may be a lot less ready than Sheahan and Jurco are. In a way we're actually lucky right now to have extra skaters like Quincey and Cleary to fill spots, as bad as they are.

If we miss the playoffs it's because Datsyuk, Helm, Franzen, Howard, Alfredsson, DeKeyser, Zetterberg missed time, not because Sammy and the lame gang played.

I wouldn't consider firing Holland or Babs at the moment, we need to fire any trainers working in the injury prevention department!

It's going to be beyond a shame if we blow the streak bc of this crazy injury virus, especially after we pulled through with a weaker team last season

Shoulda stayed in the west :(



#23 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:11 AM

Don't see the Wings beating Boston or Pittsburgh in a 7 game series...healthy or not

 

Sadly you can add the Sens or Toronto Maple Leafs to the list I really don't think by the time game 6 rolls around, this roster would be banged up and maybe even scared a bit. Montreal and Washington are the only matchups, where I could see them making it to the second round, but other than that I don't even want to looka t a Boston or a Pittsburgh series it would be....not funny from a Wings pov.


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#24 toby91_ca

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:30 AM

Boys the wings will be ok. It's been mentioned but we had 6 out of our top 9 forwards out and a top d man out on an already weak defense. Leaving us a crappy hockey team with a below average 1st line. buff currently has a better roster than we do, lets Think about that for a sec. Sure we haven't really played great hockey this year, There was always something haunting us. Injuries, adjustment, or players under performing. In the game today vs NYR and the recent games leading up to today we have really seen the character the wings players have. They want to win and there passionate. If we stay injured we may miss the playoffs. But if we get heathy and make it I bet we will go far. With this team that you guys keep knocking down I gurantee it we will make it far. Despite what allot of people say. Babs has gotten better as a coach. He is the best there is. And we have a HUGE advantage.

The problem with that thinking though is that no team can ever expect to be fully healthy....if you are greater, but if you are not, you have to do your best.  Pittsburgh had been playing for a awhile without 5 of their top 6 Dmen, missing Malkin, missing Neal, etc., etc.  They have actually been dessimated, but kept on winning.  They actually had to sign a player the other day to get someone else in the line up (he only had an AHL contract).



#25 lomekian

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 08:47 AM

Don't see the Wings beating Boston or Pittsburgh in a 7 game series...healthy or not

 

Neither do I, but that doesn't make it impossible. Boston aren't at the level they were, and Seidenburg (sp?) is a big loss for them. And remember last year, with a roster no better than this one, we were within inches of taking out the best team an eventual winners. If the wings get healthy and make the playoffs, they will be the low seed that everyone wants to avoid. A goalie that can get hot, a hungry alfie, 3 or 4 key players with Stanley Cup winning experience who are still near their peaks, and the likes of tatar and nyquist who have already shown good playoff form. And of course, if helm can actually return and stay fit, thats a massive plus. 

 

Obviously health is the issue. Boston or Pittsburgh would rightly be favourites, but I''m pretty sure the same applied to Anaheim last year...



#26 lomekian

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

The problem with that thinking though is that no team can ever expect to be fully healthy....if you are greater, but if you are not, you have to do your best.  Pittsburgh had been playing for a awhile without 5 of their top 6 Dmen, missing Malkin, missing Neal, etc., etc.  They have actually been dessimated, but kept on winning.  They actually had to sign a player the other day to get someone else in the line up (he only had an AHL contract).

 

They really are the exception to the rule, and they are starting from the position of having one of the best rosters in the NHL, and certainly with the best player, who remarkably has nt been one of the injured parties.

 

As per my earlier post, lots of people compare the wings to them and Anaheim to show how injuries shouldn't be a factor. Both are teams where the role players have massively over-achieved and both have strong rosters on paper in the first place. Perhaps more useful is to see that every other team with similar game days lost through injury are doing worse than us this year, and its only Pittsburgh who have lost better players than us (or a large number of core players). Most teams have lost a couple of top 6 ers and a top 4 d-man and then the scrubs. Our scrubs seem to be made of tungsten compared to our top guys



#27 toby91_ca

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:02 AM

 

They really are the exception to the rule, and they are starting from the position of having one of the best rosters in the NHL, and certainly with the best player, who remarkably has nt been one of the injured parties.

 

As per my earlier post, lots of people compare the wings to them and Anaheim to show how injuries shouldn't be a factor. Both are teams where the role players have massively over-achieved and both have strong rosters on paper in the first place. Perhaps more useful is to see that every other team with similar game days lost through injury are doing worse than us this year, and its only Pittsburgh who have lost better players than us (or a large number of core players). Most teams have lost a couple of top 6 ers and a top 4 d-man and then the scrubs. Our scrubs seem to be made of tungsten compared to our top guys

I'm not sure if Pittsburgh would be the exception to the rule.  Perhaps an exception to the extent that they have had so many injuries to so many top players and are running away with the east currently...HOWEVER, it would be the exception to not have any injuries.  A lot of teams have injuries and manage to keep thing moving.   Maybe not do quite as well, but keep things together (example...Tampa).  Maybe the Wings have had more injuries than the norm though.

 

My point is, they are hanging around 8-11 place, injuries are a factor for sure, but I'm not sure that would make the difference between 8-11 to 3 or 4.  If the Wings were fully healthy and all other teams were fully healthy, I'm sure they'd make the playoffs, but I'm not sure they wouldn't have a battle to get there.  Even with all the injuries....I do see them sqeeking in, but I'm not going to lie....getting a bit worried.



#28 Firefighter4WingedWheel

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:42 AM

The whole not having a fully healthy squad worries me.  Especially with the olympics coming up.  The Wings are one of the teams with the most players selected for the olympics.  The games are long and grueling and take a toll on the players.  I think that we get back players that are tired, and hurting.  Those who were hurt prior to the games will come back in worse shape.  This feels like the year we don't make the playoffs, but I know that Babcock will work his magic and the boys will get their stuff together and make that playoff push. 

 

I hope.


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#29 lomekian

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:50 AM

I'm not sure if Pittsburgh would be the exception to the rule.  Perhaps an exception to the extent that they have had so many injuries to so many top players and are running away with the east currently...HOWEVER, it would be the exception to not have any injuries.  A lot of teams have injuries and manage to keep thing moving.   Maybe not do quite as well, but keep things together (example...Tampa).  Maybe the Wings have had more injuries than the norm though.

 

My point is, they are hanging around 8-11 place, injuries are a factor for sure, but I'm not sure that would make the difference between 8-11 to 3 or 4.  If the Wings were fully healthy and all other teams were fully healthy, I'm sure they'd make the playoffs, but I'm not sure they wouldn't have a battle to get there.  Even with all the injuries....I do see them sqeeking in, but I'm not going to lie....getting a bit worried.

 

But the exception that you have just said they are is the exception I said they were. The only difference is that when I checked the stats the wings are doing better than any team with comparable injuries not  called Pittsburgh or Anaheim, and the wings injuries have been to far more important players than most of the other teams with comparable injury totals.

 

As I also said, for all the doom and gloom and the struggle the team are in, the wings are 3 points off 5th with at least one game in hand over 5 of the six teams directly above them. Despite having a much worse injury record than those teams directly above them.


The whole not having a fully healthy squad worries me.  Especially with the olympics coming up.  The Wings are one of the teams with the most players selected for the olympics.  The games are long and grueling and take a toll on the players.  I think that we get back players that are tired, and hurting.  Those who were hurt prior to the games will come back in worse shape.  This feels like the year we don't make the playoffs, but I know that Babcock will work his magic and the boys will get their stuff together and make that playoff push. 

 

I hope.

 

Admit that this is a concern..as has been alluded too, much depends on the time before that. I think after the Olympics the combination of willpower and a relatively short stretch and hopefully a morale boost for some will help. As a brit with little interest in the international game from a personal emotional perspective, I just hope that all our players that go there give a good account of themselves and return motivated and confident....



#30 toby91_ca

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:06 AM

As I also said, for all the doom and gloom and the struggle the team are in, the wings are 3 points off 5th with at least one game in hand over 5 of the six teams directly above them. Despite having a much worse injury record than those teams directly above them.

 

They are 3 points behind Philly and NY, but they are in the other division, picking up those 3 points wouldn't put them in 5th.  They are 9 points behind 3rd in their division, which means they are fighting for wildcard if they don't make up those points.



#31 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:56 AM

i believe missing the playoffs would be a blessing in disguise.

It would make it impossable for Kenny to re-sign his aging UFA's,

and actually justify it. We have had a look at some of our prospects

and they have shown that they are capable of filling voids that will

be made by letting the upcoming ufa's go. Only Alfie would be asked

to re-sign in an ideal world, and we havent got anyone to replace him.

 

Next year could be the start of a genuine youth movement, but we do

need a vet to come in and replace Quincey and Alfredsson if he goes.

In one way i would love Mantha to come straight in next year but i see

him going to the Griffs for the start of the season at least. I have this 

vision of Pav centering the 3rd line with Mantha and Jurco as his wings.

This depends on Weiss coming round and being the 2nd line C as he was

signed to do. Tats and Gus as top 6 forwards with Z Mule Weiss and Alfie 

or his replacement. 4th line Abdelkader Helm Sheahan which leaves us 

Miller


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#32 GoWings!

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:23 AM

Just wondering how awesome it would've been getting Jagr here. He is truly a leader. Weiss has been one of the worst signings ever and Alfredsson, though very good on the pp,hasn't played too much in a season where we need everyone to kinda give a bit more than usual. I know everyone is hurt but sometimes you wonder when they lose all these close, important games if the coach is reassuring these players how hungry they have to be.



#33 BadgerBob

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:38 AM

i believe missing the playoffs would be a blessing in disguise.

It would make it impossable for Kenny to re-sign his aging UFA's,

and actually justify it. We have had a look at some of our prospects

and they have shown that they are capable of filling voids that will

be made by letting the upcoming ufa's go. Only Alfie would be asked

to re-sign in an ideal world, and we havent got anyone to replace him.

 

Next year could be the start of a genuine youth movement, but we do

need a vet to come in and replace Quincey and Alfredsson if he goes.

In one way i would love Mantha to come straight in next year but i see

him going to the Griffs for the start of the season at least. I have this 

vision of Pav centering the 3rd line with Mantha and Jurco as his wings.

This depends on Weiss coming round and being the 2nd line C as he was

signed to do. Tats and Gus as top 6 forwards with Z Mule Weiss and Alfie 

or his replacement. 4th line Abdelkader Helm Sheahan which leaves us 

Miller

 

Pav on the 3rd line? No way.



#34 lomekian

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:57 AM

They are 3 points behind Philly and NY, but they are in the other division, picking up those 3 points wouldn't put them in 5th.  They are 9 points behind 3rd in their division, which means they are fighting for wildcard if they don't make up those points.

True..but I have to confess I'm not looking any further than Wild Card here....


Just wondering how awesome it would've been getting Jagr here. He is truly a leader. Weiss has been one of the worst signings ever and Alfredsson, though very good on the pp,hasn't played too much in a season where we need everyone to kinda give a bit more than usual. I know everyone is hurt but sometimes you wonder when they lose all these close, important games if the coach is reassuring these players how hungry they have to be.

 

I long thought the jilted smugness of Wings fans re Jagr was ill-founded. Sure money and personal achievements may be more of a motivator for him than others, but as he has shown, they seem to have motivated him just fine for a couple of decades!

 

As for hunger, I don't think it applies to most of the roster. Problem is that there were already too many players not of the required standard even before injuries. Fact is too many just arent good enough.



#35 RedWang

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

I recommend everyone check out The Production Line's (@TPLhockey) latest twitter post regarding red wing injuries among cup contenders the last 4 years. They put together a graph showing just how injury riddled the wings have been this year and in years past. The numbers seem to be quite a bit higher than BOS, LAK, CHI and even the NHL average. I really am starting to believe the clubs training staff and or practicing too much is killing any hopes of us competing with a full squad.

Idk its worth a look because it really made me think.
Also if anyone could just find said photo and post it in a response to my post would really help others see what I mean.

Edited by RedWang, 17 January 2014 - 03:43 PM.


#36 darkmanx

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

i believe missing the playoffs would be a blessing in disguise.

It would make it impossable for Kenny to re-sign his aging UFA's,

and actually justify it. We have had a look at some of our prospects

and they have shown that they are capable of filling voids that will

be made by letting the upcoming ufa's go. Only Alfie would be asked

to re-sign in an ideal world, and we havent got anyone to replace him.

 

Next year could be the start of a genuine youth movement, but we do

need a vet to come in and replace Quincey and Alfredsson if he goes.

In one way i would love Mantha to come straight in next year but i see

him going to the Griffs for the start of the season at least. I have this 

vision of Pav centering the 3rd line with Mantha and Jurco as his wings.

This depends on Weiss coming round and being the 2nd line C as he was

signed to do. Tats and Gus as top 6 forwards with Z Mule Weiss and Alfie 

or his replacement. 4th line Abdelkader Helm Sheahan which leaves us 

Miller

Yes, take minutes away from our best center, and faceoff player. That makes alot of sense....

 

Pittsburgh should move Crosby to the 3rd line as well to match up against Datsyuk when they play eachother....



#37 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

I want the playoff streak to continue. It would be icing on the already impressive Red Wings cake.

 

That being said, if the Wings don't make the playoffs, burn the team down. Blow it up. No one without a letter on the front of his jersey should be safe.



#38 darkmanx

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:17 PM

I want the playoff streak to continue. It would be icing on the already impressive Red Wings cake.

 

That being said, if the Wings don't make the playoffs, burn the team down. Blow it up. No one without a letter on the front of his jersey should be safe.

 

Agreed.

 

Out:

 

Cleary

Bert

Sammy

Eaves

Miller

Quincey

Kindl

 

In:

 

Shehan

Ouellett

Jurco

Glendenning

Callahan

Marchenko

 

 

 

Vanek :ninja:



#39 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:38 PM

I'd prefer the Wings not sign anyone for significant money or term this offseason..rather wait

Edited by PumpkinEscobar, 17 January 2014 - 06:38 PM.


#40 Playmaker

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:54 PM

Don't see the Wings beating Boston or Pittsburgh in a 7 game series...healthy or not

Nobody saw them competing with the Blackhawks last season either.  But we managed to take them to OT in game 7.  Didn't the Wings have to win their last 4 last season just to get in?  Weren't there just as many injuries playing the little wimpy Western Conference?  Trade Jimmy Howard?  That No Movement Clause may put a damper on that.  Most teams are at or near the salary cap.  A majority of the roster has a NTC or NMC, so making trades isn't an easy proposition.  I can't think of another team that has so many starters out of the lineup.  If the Wings were relatively healthy and were in the same position, it'd be a bit more disconcerting.  But as someone else mentioned, with the salary cap and lack of high draft picks over the past 2 decades, a decline was inevitable.  It would be nice if they were Championship contenders every year, but no team is in any sport is.  It's not to say that I've agreed with every move Holland has made, but the Wings have been so good for so long, the fans have become spoiled.  I don't want to see it all end either, but its going to happen sooner or later.







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