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Would Samuelsson ever consider retiring mid-season?


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#41 DickieDunn

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:39 PM

I would assume he means claiming injury during the offseason so the Wings couldn't buy him out. But I don't have all the details on that situation. Seems a silly rule anyway to not be able to buy someone out because they're injured. 

It's to protect the players, and it's no different than your boss not being able to fire you if you get hurt at work unless you're unable to return within 6 months.  He was hurt to end the season, and he'd never received medical clearance to resume hockey activities until after the buyout period was over.

 

if Samuelsson retires it does nothing but open up a roster space without clearing any cap room to fill it.  Like it or not they're stuck with him unless he gets hurt and goes on LTIR for the rest of the year.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#42 barabbas16

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

I'm referring to his faking an injury to avoid being bought out. Fans clearly don't like him because of this, Babcock never plays him and he is never complimented by Holland or Babcock in interviews. Hence my comment about him wearing out his welcome with everyone.

It was clear Sammy was a buyout target. To fans and pundits. He wasn't injured in his last game I don't think, yet he suddenly had a flareup of his pectoral injury the day before the buyout deadline.

As for being pissed, you have to read between the lines. When you see and hear and read lots of interviews of Babcock and Holland, you pick up on their speech patterns. He screwed their plans and neither of them have been as complimentary to him as they have been about, say, Cleary. It's also hard to see them being happy about having to keep him when it was his contract that prevented us from icing the team Holland and Babcock wanted. Well, that and Cleary, but again, neither has spares praise for Cleary.

 

You have no proof to support your claims, though.  Show me proof that Samuelsson was faking an injury to avoid being bought out.  Sure, fans don't seem to like him much because he hasn't been producing.  Yes, Babcock has sat him quite a bit - 'never plays him' is obviously false.  Never complimented by Holland or Babcock in interviews......

 

“I thought (Mikael) Samuelsson was good, had lots of opportunities to score last game so I’m leaving him back in,” Babcock said.  - November 14, 2013

 

... again, obviously false.

 

Show me proof that Samuelsson would have been bought out if it had not been for the injury situation.  If it's so clear, surely you can find me a quote from Holland or someone saying 'Yeah, we would have approached him about a buyout, but he said he was injured, so that didn't work out.'  I haven't seen anything like that as of yet.  All I've seen is posts from people like you full of speculation and opinion and devoid of pertinent factual information.

 

As far as pissed, I'm not going to 'read between the lines.'  I can't do it any more than you can.  We don't know Bobcock and Holland well enough to tell what they are thinking by their tone.  Mikael Samuelsson did not screw anyone's plans.  He signed a contract that he was offered.  No one had a gun to Ken Holland's head and made him an offer he couldn't refuse.  They offered him the contract and he took it.... same way as he did with Vancouver when Detroit wouldn't pay him what he wanted the last time. 

 

It isn't Samuelsson's fault that Holland put himself in his current position.  The contract is on Holland.  The NTC in the contract is on Holland.  The fact that a buyout was even potentially necessary (not that we can prove that one would have happened anyway) is on Holland.  Mikael Samuelsson didn't sign 20 forwards to the team this season.

 

If you must be pissed off, I think your anger is misdirected.  There's more reason to be pissed at Holland than Samuelsson.  And, if everyone is so annoyed about the Samuelsson contract, I don't understand why there aren't like 10 threads full of posts with people fuming about the Weiss contract.  Detroit is done with Samuelsson after this season.  Weiss is getting paid $2 million more per season.  Has basically the same amount of points in the same amount of games played this season - WITH over 4 more minutes of ice time per game.  AND..... there are FOUR more years left on his contract.  Not to mention that the guy he replaced is absolutely lighting it up in Tampa.



#43 DickieDunn

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:59 PM

There was no reason for them not to have bought him out if they could have.  He wasn't faking though, or at least he hadn't been cleared by a doctor even if he was healthy at the time.  Kahn is generally pretty spot on about things, and he said they wanted to but couldn't without a good possibility of a challenge by Samuelsson's camp.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#44 Playmaker

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:19 PM

There was no reason for them not to have bought him out if they could have.  He wasn't faking though, or at least he hadn't been cleared by a doctor even if he was healthy at the time.  Kahn is generally pretty spot on about things, and he said they wanted to but couldn't without a good possibility of a challenge by Samuelsson's camp.

There was also no reason for them not to buy out Tootoo, knowing Babcock wasn't going to play him.  But they decided to keep paying him and bury him in the minors.  I think that's actually more puzzling than not buying out Sammy.



#45 lwing

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:37 AM

Gee, who in the world could have ever foreseen this as being a bad signing?

 

Please note, if the dripping sarcasm is not beyond obvious, I can't help you.



#46 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:51 AM

Would Sammy ask for a trade? I mean he's not stupid and he surely knows that he isn't going to see the ice much from here on in. Yesterday was a fine example, Tartar comes back but they don't send Emmerton of Jurco back to GR, they sit Sammy. Is he content to sit out the remainder of his contract, I doubt many teams would want to take it on thou so I guess he's here in the press box till end of the season.


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#47 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:15 PM

Would Sammy ask for a trade? I mean he's not stupid and he surely knows that he isn't going to see the ice much from here on in. Yesterday was a fine example, Tartar comes back but they don't send Emmerton of Jurco back to GR, they sit Sammy. Is he content to sit out the remainder of his contract, I doubt many teams would want to take it on thou so I guess he's here in the press box till end of the season.

 

Would you trade for Samuelsson?


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#48 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:44 PM

good point Dickie, :nono:


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#49 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:38 PM

I think before the end of the season Sammy will be released

Edited by PumpkinEscobar, 19 January 2014 - 03:38 PM.


#50 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:03 PM

I think before the end of the season Sammy will be released

 

There's no point.  Waiving him saves only 100k in cap room, there's not enough savings to matter.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#51 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:55 PM

Don't give a s*** about the cap savings..him being gone is what matters most

#52 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:27 PM

Don't give a s*** about the cap savings..him being gone is what matters most

100k in cap space doesn't open up enough to call anyone up.  Waiving him does absolutely nothing except cause a roster problem now, and after the roster limit is lifted it's irrelevant.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#53 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:34 PM

I'll be shocked if he's still on the roster come playoff time

#54 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:43 PM

I also wouldn't be surprised if some one is put on LTIR...like Franzen or Helm

#55 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:45 PM

Samuelsson will be on the roster, and never see the ice in the playoffs.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#56 number9

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

I'll be shocked if he's still on the roster come playoff time


I'll be shocked if he isn't

#57 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

if that happens and he is in the press box, that's 30 games for $6m and 1+3 and a -7 so $200,000 a game not bad work

if you can get it !


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#58 GoWings1905

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:58 PM

Samuelsson will be on the roster, and never see the ice in the playoffs.

 

The Wings playoff run will be short if Sammy is dressed during the playoffs. That means a bunch of forwards are injured because he can't even break the lineup with six of them out right now. 


 
 
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#59 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:45 PM


Samuelsson will be on the roster, and never see the ice in the playoffs.


 
The Wings playoff run will be short if Sammy is dressed during the playoffs. That means a bunch of forwards are injured because he can't even break the lineup with six of them out right now. 


Hence the part about never seeing the ice. On the roster doesn't mean dressed. He'll be on the roster sitting outside in the guard shack for the player parking lot in street clothes.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#60 gcom007

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:41 AM

You have no proof to support your claims, though.  Show me proof that Samuelsson was faking an injury to avoid being bought out.  Sure, fans don't seem to like him much because he hasn't been producing.  Yes, Babcock has sat him quite a bit - 'never plays him' is obviously false.  Never complimented by Holland or Babcock in interviews......
 
“I thought (Mikael) Samuelsson was good, had lots of opportunities to score last game so I’m leaving him back in,” Babcock said.  - November 14, 2013
 
... again, obviously false.
 
Show me proof that Samuelsson would have been bought out if it had not been for the injury situation.  If it's so clear, surely you can find me a quote from Holland or someone saying 'Yeah, we would have approached him about a buyout, but he said he was injured, so that didn't work out.'  I haven't seen anything like that as of yet.  All I've seen is posts from people like you full of speculation and opinion and devoid of pertinent factual information.
 
As far as pissed, I'm not going to 'read between the lines.'  I can't do it any more than you can.  We don't know Bobcock and Holland well enough to tell what they are thinking by their tone.  Mikael Samuelsson did not screw anyone's plans.  He signed a contract that he was offered.  No one had a gun to Ken Holland's head and made him an offer he couldn't refuse.  They offered him the contract and he took it.... same way as he did with Vancouver when Detroit wouldn't pay him what he wanted the last time. 
 
It isn't Samuelsson's fault that Holland put himself in his current position.  The contract is on Holland.  The NTC in the contract is on Holland.  The fact that a buyout was even potentially necessary (not that we can prove that one would have happened anyway) is on Holland.  Mikael Samuelsson didn't sign 20 forwards to the team this season.
 
If you must be pissed off, I think your anger is misdirected.  There's more reason to be pissed at Holland than Samuelsson.  And, if everyone is so annoyed about the Samuelsson contract, I don't understand why there aren't like 10 threads full of posts with people fuming about the Weiss contract.  Detroit is done with Samuelsson after this season.  Weiss is getting paid $2 million more per season.  Has basically the same amount of points in the same amount of games played this season - WITH over 4 more minutes of ice time per game.  AND..... there are FOUR more years left on his contract.  Not to mention that the guy he replaced is absolutely lighting it up in Tampa.


Not a Sammy fan and I don't doubt the whispers about them wanting to buy Sammy out if not for the injury, but this whole mess stems from countless bonehead moves by Holland. This guy's current standing as a top GM is running on fumes.

Maybe he's got the skills, maybe he's got the know how, but he hasn't shown it in the cap era. He's overseen the ongoing decline despite being able to carry over a great core at a cap hit that should allow him to make better decisions than he's made.

And oh, too many of those decisions he does make hurt just hurt, if you're not just already numb to it all. I barely felt Sammy. When I heard it, a largely sarcastic "OF COURSE" came to mind. And then I became a tired character in an long burnt out sitcom reduced to playing a cartoon crying himself to sleep.
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