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Kmahrle83

Has anyone noticed this trend? 3 years now

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Now, I'm not saying this is intentional or that the wings brass is even aware of this but, for at least the past 3 seasons we've suffered terrible injuries all season long. I'm not just talking about a game here and there, I'm talking about a good chunk of our lineup being absent for weeks at a time. This brings up several questions to me.

1. Is there something in the training department that is amiss? Pre Lidstrom retirement, I don't remember this being such an issue. Are we behind the times in training methods or something? Or does this fall on coaching and management that we just haven't picked up players that aren't made of porcelain?

2. Do Babcock and Holland KNOW that our players are fragile and play it safe? What I mean is, sometimes we'll get a player like Helm back for 2 games, then lose him for 10. Just an example. Are they afraid of having these players down in the final stretch/playoffs? Do they sit them at every cough, sniffle, or sneeze or what? It seems to me for the past few seasons, we've battled injury all season long. Then towards the final stretch, guys start coming back healthy, and we have been able to turn it on. Just look at the 7 game series Vs. Chicago last year. If I remember correctly, we played with mostly and young and playoff inexperience roster during that series, but the core was healthy.

I'm starting to wonder if guys are staying out of the lineup for any and every injury earlier in the season for fear that if they play through little things like alot of guys do, they'll end up seriously hurt come playoffs? Now, I know the issue here would be that we need all the points possible to make the playoffs, but we've somehow managed.

3. What in your guys opinions could management, and/or the players, and training staff do differently? SOMETHING has got to be a factor that wasn't there 4-5 years ago. If it were just our older players getting hurt, I'd say it's that. But, we have guys like abby, helm, howie, ericsson etc routinely getting hurt now.

Just some thought I had, and wanted to get your guys, and gals takes on it all.

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I posted in another thread that a lot of players seem to get injured stepping up into roles they are not accustomed to. Helm was trying to be a 2C, Andersson was trying to be a 2C, Ericsson a 2D, Dekeyser a 3D, Alfie is being leaned on heavily for offence, etc. I think due to some key losses though out the lineup it just compounds the problem. These guys aren't used to playing those minutes every night against harder competition.

Other than that you have to question the medical staff a bit. Why are the same injuries happening (groins)? Have they changed their practices to avoid this? Can the wings invest some more time and money into conditioning and resources? Does babcock making practice optional result in more groin issues? I have no clue - but I would sure as hell start turning over stones if I was in the organization to figure this out.

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Why can't all athletes be as mentally tough as those Korean fighters from "Best of the Best"?

But to answer the OP's question, yes, I question how this team practices and trains to have these problems in back to back years. In 2012, we were 12th in man games lost, so it wasn't that bad. But the last two years, we're among the league leaders. It's not any particular guys getting hurt, as much as a problem that seems to rotate around. Also, it's not because we're old. Old and young guys are getting injured.

Sadly, having Cleary, Sammy and Bert was supposed to help in times like these where other guys were hurt, and depth was needed. However, these old farts are useless and are making Holland look like an idiot right now.

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The injuries are alarming. This trend is actually older.

2010, 2011, 2013, and 2014 all were derailed by injuries. 2012 was, too, but not as bad, relatively.

It's training, has to be. It's every player, not just those "made of glass" and it's almost always a muscle strain or pull. Or a concussion. Neither of which is a toughness issue I don't think.

Cloune likes this

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How does training avoid Darren Helm's wrist injury? Or Pavel Datsyuk getting clocked in the jaw? Or Patrick Eaves taking a puck to the face? I realize people are upset by the injuries and are grasping at straws, but there just isn't any solid evidence that the Wings aren't well trained. Just exactly how do you train to avoid a concussion? Sure you can play smart to avoid open ice hits, but these aren't Eric Lindros/Scott Stevens type hits. I think the increased awareness has quite a bit to do with more players missing due to concussions.

The Secret, 55fan, Jasper84 and 2 others like this

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How does training avoid Darren Helm's wrist injury? Or Pavel Datsyuk getting clocked in the jaw? Or Patrick Eaves taking a puck to the face? I realize people are upset by the injuries and are grasping at straws, but there just isn't any solid evidence that the Wings aren't well trained. Just exactly how do you train to avoid a concussion? Sure you can play smart to avoid open ice hits, but these aren't Eric Lindros/Scott Stevens type hits. I think the increased awareness has quite a bit to do with more players missing due to concussions.

See the word "GROIN" mentioned 1000x above.

Rebound and unsaddleddonald like this

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How does training avoid Darren Helm's wrist injury? Or Pavel Datsyuk getting clocked in the jaw? Or Patrick Eaves taking a puck to the face? I realize people are upset by the injuries and are grasping at straws, but there just isn't any solid evidence that the Wings aren't well trained. Just exactly how do you train to avoid a concussion? Sure you can play smart to avoid open ice hits, but these aren't Eric Lindros/Scott Stevens type hits. I think the increased awareness has quite a bit to do with more players missing due to concussions.

The injuries in question aren't concussions or wrists or broken jaws.

They are muscle strains, groin pulls, etc. There is a difference....

Rebound likes this

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Is it just me or shouldn't a professional that has played the game for +20 years (in a lot of cases) be somewhat aware of what type of stretching/conditioning their body requires to minimize injuries? I know when I played a number of different sports over the years I required certain regimines to perform my best and I figured those out after a few practices.

That being said, I think that The Wings are very cautious when any groin issue arises. If anybody recalls, back not too long ago, a groin strain would have a player out 2 weeks, bare minimum. Now, although inconvienent, the team takes them out at the slightest tweak and they (not always) are headed back to the lineup within a couple weeks.

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How many of the injuries have been pulled groins? Helm is out right now with a pulled groin, and that's likely because of all the other injuries he's had and the long period of time he's been off the ice, not because he played 2nd line center for a couple of games. Gustavsson is a back up goalie, not really that odd for him to have a pulled groin or indicative of a lack of training. Zetterberg was out with a herniated disc. That's not training. Franzen is due to a concussion. Ericsson had a bad shoulder. I just find it really hard to believe an organization as top notch as the Wings wouldn't have top notch training. Not like Zetterberg or Datsyuk or any of these guys are couch potatoes and not in elite condition.

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Broken ribs, concussions, back spasms for a forty year old, more concussions stemming from 08, broken jaws, a lot of these are unavoidable. Sliced wrist twice... That's unbelievable!!!! Wings are extremely unlucky training has very little to do with it.

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I remember a time in the early 2000s where Montreal had a ton of injuries for a few years... I think it's just one of those cyclical things. Someday we will find that it's no longer us losing 10 guys to injury at a time, it'll be the Sharks, or the Ducks.

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its the uncle Gary curse...for all you fans that wished injuries on Crosby or any of the penguins...curse your team and your little dog too! :P

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I don't think the Wings have any more groin injuries than other teams do. It happens in hockey.

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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/01/with_millions_and_millions_of.html

Ken Holland: “We all expect groin injuries and hip flexors in September, at the start of training camp. Internally, we’re talking about why we’re having groin injuries in December and January.

“I’m not sure what we can do about it this year, but it’s something we’ll look at in the summer.”

Piet Van Zant is outta here!!!!!

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Wings internally evaluating injury issues. Decent read.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2014/01/18/duff-wings-study-injury-issues/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Interesting article pertaining to this exact topic, sounds like the Wings management is starting to see a problem also.

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/pleiness-red-wings-coach-gm-say-theyve-audited-training-staff-are-investiga

Sorry, I didn't see this before I posted that article. Differnt sources basically saying the same thing.

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This is something I've been talking to my friends (both of them) about. I've been wondering if trainers are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Of course, they can't do anything about concussions or cuts from skates, but soft tissue injuries are really popping up. I hate to be "that guy", but I've also been wondering if Babs and Holland are still effective in their roles. Both have done a huge amount for this team, and I don't mean to bash them or derail this discussion. Are coaching and management staff keeping our guys interested at a level that they need to be?

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I can speak from personal experience as I own and operate a personal training/sports performance biz here in Florida.

Training has become so specialized that most players have their own trainers in off season and the training they do may contrast deeply from the Wings protocol.

So basically you train all off season a certain way with your trainer then, as soon as camp starts you train a different way. You can see how this may create some problems.

Trainers can be obsessive dictators(my way is best) about their philosophies and have a hard time leaving their ego at the door. Unfortunately its all about them and not their client. You can see how this would not be a good for an athlete as well.

Lots of athletes unknowingly trust people they shouldnt and trainers can be those people.

Example:

I caught some video of Z training off season one summer and in all honesty I didnt like what I saw and cpuldnt beleive his trainers had him doing it.

If any of you saw it, you probably freaked out too.

Its no suprise that there was a video of it too. Trainers showing off their prized stud for more biz...look at me and who I train!

Now, Im not training NHL players BUT we work with lots of D1 athletes and aspiring college athletes and The rule is simple...Risk to Reward...and I see far too much risk being taken with athletes training on all levels that are not worth the reward.

Im sure all of you have pulled up youtube training vids of pro athletes and they might as well have been training to be in cirque du soleil.

If memory serves, Helm f***ed his back up doing a squat! A SQUAT!!!! Was it a freak thing? An unlucky break? Was he ******* around? Was there a trainer there pushing too hard? Was there a traine? Was helm supposed to be squatting? Lots of questions for sure, if he did indeed mess his back up squatting.

Only thing worse than s***ty unsafe training is OVER training which most people had no idea exhisted.

Its truly amazing that pro athletes can perform the way they do day after day without suffucient recovery time. Add in a soft tissue injury and its a borderline miracle they come back as fast as they do.

This is speculative but if the Wings currently are not, I think they need all need to all be on same page year round with their players.

Lot of $$$ invested to be letting dudes choose their own workouts and end up crossfitting with a junior high cross country team trying to out Pr each other.

Lots of bad luck for sure but, I expect some changes will Be made this summer.

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Interesting perspective for sure about the summer training.

Now this is purely speculative because I'm not looking closely at the schedules, but certainly last year with the lockout and this year with the Olympics, there's lots of talk about a "condensed schedule" and if that is true, it would be logical that players miss more games than normal despite the "normal" length of injury. So the lack of recovery time during the season might be why some of these injuries persist.

I think, too, that the Wings systems demand a lot of their players in terms of skating and, ideally, grinding. As the team's overall skill level decreases (undeniably), so too do they need to grind more and, being a team of mostly smaller players upfront, it seems reasonable that this might lead to a higher level of injuries than the majority of teams. I think controlling the puck less makes it inevitable that playes will be injured more, whether that is from blocking shots, other team's forechecks, etc. Of course this interpretation of things makes sensed based on what I see in Detroit, but the logic might not hold up if applied to other teams. And so, I am just spitballin.

Of course there will be the inevitable wearing down of bodies regardless of skill (see Alfredsson, Datsyuk) and chronic injuries that plague certain players for years (see Zetterberg and Bertuzzi's backs and Franzen's head). We hope that players are taking the right measures during the summer to ensure they are best prepared to avoid reinjury, but I guess there's only so much they can do.

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I think one of the reasons is that our players play tougher than they actually are.

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