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#181 Euro_Twins

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:29 PM

 

I'll try to be nice enough not to respond in kind to your unnecessary and condescending next-to-last sentence....

 

If, by 'go look at my numbers,' you mean state actual facts instead of posing my opinion as fact by putting "fact" in front of it, like you did.  I'll spare you the actual numbers.  I did go look at them, though.  And, looking at 05-06 to 11-12, Weiss's ppg varied a very similar amount to that of Samuelsson's (Weiss actually varied higher).  Not, "a lot more consistent," as you state.

 

Additionally, even if his numbers did vary as much as you have fabricated inside your head that they did, that, along with his age, are things that Holland would/should have taken into consideration when Samuelsson was signed.  Thus, the beef is with Holland, not Samuelsson.  I think any of us, had we been in Samuelsson's position, would have signed that contract too.  And, as is already established, Samuelsson's injuries last year can't be held against him any more than Weiss's can be held against him this season.

 

Also - being NHL players for the Red Wings is the only thing the have in common - also false.  They're forwards, were both injured in their first season of the current contract and had been injured the previous season.  Both are also currently questionable free agent signings by Ken Holland.

 

Where we agree: He spent 4 years with the wings and the rest of that sentence.  No one was angry the 1st time around.  And, Weiss is 5 years older.

 

Fact, Samuelsson missed most of last season with questionable injuries, sore pectoral mussel ring a bell? in 06-07 Weiss hit 48 points, he never dipped below 40 after that before the lockout, he hit 60+ twice and 57 in that time frame, out of those 6 seasons he scored 20 plus goals 4 times. Like I said if you watched you would see that Samuelsson was very inconsistent, because he was lazy sure his numbers look similar, but that is mostly a bi product of who he played with, and a lot of secondary assists. He had a lot of stretches of not scoring his first time with the wings. Weiss has had 2 fairly severe injuries the last two seasons (both requiring surgery) which inflates his average games missed due to injury count. I feel like given a healthy season he will have no problem getting 60+ points with the talent we have.



#182 barabbas16

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:32 PM

Not sure how I feel about this.

 

 

http://kuklaskorner....ympics-and-more

 

He seemed healthy enough to contribute vs. the U.S.



#183 barabbas16

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:50 PM

 

Fact, Samuelsson missed most of last season with questionable injuries, sore pectoral mussel ring a bell? in 06-07 Weiss hit 48 points, he never dipped below 40 after that before the lockout, he hit 60+ twice and 57 in that time frame, out of those 6 seasons he scored 20 plus goals 4 times. Like I said if you watched you would see that Samuelsson was very inconsistent, because he was lazy sure his numbers look similar, but that is mostly a bi product of who he played with, and a lot of secondary assists. He had a lot of stretches of not scoring his first time with the wings. Weiss has had 2 fairly severe injuries the last two seasons (both requiring surgery) which inflates his average games missed due to injury count. I feel like given a healthy season he will have no problem getting 60+ points with the talent we have.

 

All irrelevant points.  I never argued that Samuelsson scored more or was a better player.  And, as I clearly stated, I didn't include last season or this season in the comparison.  So, you comments on the injuries do not apply.  Although, Samuelsson was also injured at the same time, so I hardly see the point of mentioning it.

 

However, I agree that he is capable of 60 points with Detroit.  And he should get that, based on what he is paid.  It's not going to happen this season, though.

 

But just fyi, over that same seven(7) season period, Weiss played 22 more games than Samuelsson did.  Also during that time period, Weiss averaged 6% higher points per game than Samuelsson.



#184 Euro_Twins

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:06 PM

 

All irrelevant points.  I never argued that Samuelsson scored more or was a better player.  And, as I clearly stated, I didn't include last season or this season in the comparison.  So, you comments on the injuries do not apply.  Although, Samuelsson was also injured at the same time, so I hardly see the point of mentioning it.

 

However, I agree that he is capable of 60 points with Detroit.  And he should get that, based on what he is paid.  It's not going to happen this season, though.

 

But just fyi, over that same seven(7) season period, Weiss played 22 more games than Samuelsson did.  Also during that time period, Weiss averaged 6% higher points per game than Samuelsson.

 

actually you did, when you compared them both having injuries in their first years of their contracts. 



#185 barabbas16

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:12 PM

 

actually you did, when you compared them both having injuries in their first years of their contracts. 

 

Ah, you're right!  They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable.  I'm glad we agree on that now.

 

I meant the statistical comparison.  But, you're right, I didn't clarify that.  So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured?  Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious?


Edited by barabbas16, 24 February 2014 - 09:23 PM.


#186 Buppy

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:56 PM

Weiss's first full season was 2002/03. From that season through today, his teams have played a total of 844 regular season games. Weiss has played a total of 673 games out of those 844. he misses 20% of the total games played by his teams for his career. he missed most of last season and now this season. Why should he and the guy that signed him be given a break?

That's silly. Prior to last year he had 6 straight years of 74 or more games. And that after he had major injuries in 2 of the previous 3 seasons. By your logic, that shouldn't have been possible.

 

Contrary to what you seem to think, a player being injured does not mean they will remain injured for the rest of their career, nor that they will suffer an injury of equal (or progressively worse) degree every season.

 

Even if any of that was true, we should still have every reason to be confident that he can produce better than he has thus far.



#187 Euro_Twins

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:58 PM

 

Ah, you're right!  They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable.  I'm glad we agree on that now.

 

I meant the statistical comparison.  But, you're right, I didn't clarify that.  So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured?  Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious?

 

because samuelsson had a sore boob, thats a joke not an injury



#188 DickieDunn

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:30 PM


 
Ah, you're right!  They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable.  I'm glad we agree on that now.
 
I meant the statistical comparison.  But, you're right, I didn't clarify that.  So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured?  Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious?


 
because samuelsson had a sore boob, thats a joke not an injury


Torn muscles hurt. #experience

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#189 kipwinger

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:52 PM

It's been a long time since I took Intro to Logic in college.  But I'm pretty sure that it's entirely possible that Weiss could both suck this season AND still be a good signing...regardless of his injury proneness or lack thereof. 

 

Does that seem reasonable or have we devolved to the point in which "either/or" logic is the law of the land?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#190 dirtydangles

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:04 AM

Not sure how I feel about this.

 

 

http://kuklaskorner....ympics-and-more

And so it begins... It will really hurt if Pavs can't play - if so he could have been receiving treatment during that time (maybe his family could have visited here a bit so that could happen - he is a millionaire after all). Pavs has been treated VERY nicely by the wings organization through all of this and I just hope it doesn't bite us in the ass when the games start up again and he is still out injured. 

 

Also I understand being liberal with Pavs in terms of injuries etc. but Weiss hasn't really earned that from the wings - if he doesn't play a few conditioning games in GR before starting and ends up playing at subpar speed and costing us games I will be livid. I hope its not a pride thing that he doesn't want to play in GR and keeps deferring it. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#191 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:01 PM

@AnsarKhanMLive: Datsyuk said he hopes to play tomorrow but didn't sound like it's a sure thing. Said the pain in knee is same as before.

LGWsig_zpsa75c5d1e.jpg

 


#192 ShanahanMan

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:03 PM

@AnsarKhanMLive: Datsyuk said he hopes to play tomorrow but didn't sound like it's a sure thing. Said the pain in knee is same as before.

 

Good enough for olympics but not good enough for the team that pays his bills.

 

I love the guy but this irks me. 




I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#193 GoWings1905

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

 

Good enough for olympics but not good enough for the team that pays his bills.

 

I love the guy but this irks me. 

 

Agreed. If Pav doesn't go tomorrow, I will not be pleased. If the knee isn't healed enough to play for the Red Wings, then it shouldn't have been fine to play for Russia either. 


 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#194 ash11

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:09 PM

I agree, il be very disappointed if pav is out tomorrow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#195 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

The Datsyuk stuff is disappointing, so is Weiss' news. However I read in the mlive article that Samuelsson is on IR after sustaining an injury in GR, so that gives us even more flexibility going forward.


#NOMOREKINDL


#196 TomTestedTough

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:36 PM

The Datsyuk stuff is disappointing, so is Weiss' news. However I read in the mlive article that Samuelsson is on IR after sustaining an injury in GR, so that gives us even more flexibility going forward.

The rumor I heard down at the Van Andle is that he went home to Sweden. Not sure what will happen with him and his contract. I can't see him walking away from all that money but it would be nice to free up more cap space.



#197 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:50 PM

The rumor I heard down at the Van Andle is that he went home to Sweden. Not sure what will happen with him and his contract. I can't see him walking away from all that money but it would be nice to free up more cap space.

 

I'm very much inclined to believe that rumor. He was brutal for GR, suffered a legit injury (again) and if he goes on LTIR he still gets paid but we gain his cap space and roster spot. He's been done since last year, now maybe for good. Adding to Hank being on LTIR for the home stretch, I'd be surprised if Holland sits on his hands when he all of a sudden has so much room.

 

Just having a quick look on CapGeek, with Z and Sammy on LTIR and having a 23 man roster (sans Jurco, with Sheahan) we'd have just over 7 mil to make a move.


Edited by Detroit # 1 Fan, 25 February 2014 - 03:00 PM.

#NOMOREKINDL


#198 number9

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:13 PM

 
I'm very much inclined to believe that rumor. He was brutal for GR, suffered a legit injury (again) and if he goes on LTIR he still gets paid but we gain his cap space and roster spot. He's been done since last year, now maybe for good. Adding to Hank being on LTIR for the home stretch, I'd be surprised if Holland sits on his hands when he all of a sudden has so much room.
 
Just having a quick look on CapGeek, with Z and Sammy on LTIR and having a 23 man roster (sans Jurco, with Sheahan) we'd have just over 7 mil to make a move.


7 mil??? Oh good god. I don't like trading, but holland better make a move with that amount of room.

#199 chances14

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:23 PM

datsyuk stuff is getting annoying. was willing to to play in the olympics but he's not willing to play for the wings through injury?



#200 number9

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:29 PM

datsyuk stuff is getting annoying. was willing to to play in the olympics but he's not willing to play for the wings through injury?


Captaining his home country (possibly his only chance) was a big deal for him. He's given so much to us, IMO it's only fair he get that special opportunity. Now that he's back I don't want him playing till he's 100% though





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