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#801 wings7

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:02 AM

 

Totally agree on Dats. I have faith that he'll do what's best to be ready for the season. 

 

I'm excited to see what Weiss does next year. I really do think he turns it around. 

 

We'll have Dats, Hank, Weiss and Helm who can all finally come into training camp at 100%. That makes this team very strong down the middle even if Hank and Pasha play together. 

 

I don't think this team has as many issues as some think. Being healthy is key along with bolstering the blue line so we can avoid Kindl and Lashoff. Up front I say go with the kids, and address any needs at the deadline (unless an opportunity presents itself to bring in a UFA this summer).

 

After 24 games last season, while we were a healthy Red Wings team, we were a whooping 12-14...It's more than injuries that are slowing us down from winning a Cup...


Edited by wings7, 28 April 2014 - 09:03 AM.


#802 Mckinley25

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:54 AM

 
After 24 games last season, while we were a healthy Red Wings team, we were a whooping 12-14...It's more than injuries that are slowing us down from winning a Cup...


The injuries disrupt chemistry too. This team needs some extended time playing together to develop some team skills. We're not the 2002 roster who could play with anyone.

#803 VM1138

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:19 AM

 

After 24 games last season, while we were a healthy Red Wings team, we were a whooping 12-14...It's more than injuries that are slowing us down from winning a Cup...

 

First off...how can a team have a record longer than games played?

 

If we arbitrarily change it to include October and November (27 games) it becomes:

 

13-10-4, where OT losses count as real losses, and the third column is only shootout losses.  

 

That's a Wings team where Bertuzzi and Cleary were in the lineup, Tatar had limited minutes, Nyquist hadn't been called up, and Weiss was playing injured and Alfredsson was learning a new system.  Oh, and Franzen was having whatever secretive issues plagued him.  We were hardly healthy, just not as injured as we would become.  I separated the shootouts because those can't really indicate the success or failure of a team.  It's more like pure dumb luck on a given night for an individual player.

 

In other words, the Wings got points in 20 games of 27. That's pretty remarkable considering all the dead weight on the team.  If we look at a record as showing games where points were earned they were 20-7 in the first two months.  Consider that any of those games could've been victories with a lucky bounce here and there.

 

Now we have the kid line and Nyquist.  Smith is coming on and hopefully won't pull a Kindl, Zetterberg will be healthier than he's been in years, it's really not as bleak, at least for the regular season.  We still have to change as a team to be built for a playoff run, but I'm not worried about the regular season, even if we iced the same team we did this year (God forbid). 


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#804 rick zombo

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:26 AM

^ Wonderful post ^


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#805 wings7

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:47 PM

^ Wonderful post ^

 

This was a wonderful post. So good, Rick. Wow! I love you man.


 

First off...how can a team have a record longer than games played?

 

If we arbitrarily change it to include October and November (27 games) it becomes:

 

13-10-4, where OT losses count as real losses, and the third column is only shootout losses.  

 

That's a Wings team where Bertuzzi and Cleary were in the lineup, Tatar had limited minutes, Nyquist hadn't been called up, and Weiss was playing injured and Alfredsson was learning a new system.  Oh, and Franzen was having whatever secretive issues plagued him.  We were hardly healthy, just not as injured as we would become.  I separated the shootouts because those can't really indicate the success or failure of a team.  It's more like pure dumb luck on a given night for an individual player.

 

In other words, the Wings got points in 20 games of 27. That's pretty remarkable considering all the dead weight on the team.  If we look at a record as showing games where points were earned they were 20-7 in the first two months.  Consider that any of those games could've been victories with a lucky bounce here and there.

 

Now we have the kid line and Nyquist.  Smith is coming on and hopefully won't pull a Kindl, Zetterberg will be healthier than he's been in years, it's really not as bleak, at least for the regular season.  We still have to change as a team to be built for a playoff run, but I'm not worried about the regular season, even if we iced the same team we did this year (God forbid). 

 

If we are going to magically say any games could've been wins with a lucky bounce, let's also say any games could've been losses with an unlucky one.

 

Be fair.

 

We were 14-14-7 on the 1st of December.

 

THAT IS NOT HOCKEYTOWN GOOD ENOUGH.



#806 marcaractac

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:07 PM

 

First off...how can a team have a record longer than games played?

 

If we arbitrarily change it to include October and November (27 games) it becomes:

 

13-10-4, where OT losses count as real losses, and the third column is only shootout losses.  

 

That's a Wings team where Bertuzzi and Cleary were in the lineup, Tatar had limited minutes, Nyquist hadn't been called up, and Weiss was playing injured and Alfredsson was learning a new system.  Oh, and Franzen was having whatever secretive issues plagued him.  We were hardly healthy, just not as injured as we would become.  I separated the shootouts because those can't really indicate the success or failure of a team.  It's more like pure dumb luck on a given night for an individual player.

 

In other words, the Wings got points in 20 games of 27. That's pretty remarkable considering all the dead weight on the team.  If we look at a record as showing games where points were earned they were 20-7 in the first two months.  Consider that any of those games could've been victories with a lucky bounce here and there.

 

Now we have the kid line and Nyquist.  Smith is coming on and hopefully won't pull a Kindl, Zetterberg will be healthier than he's been in years, it's really not as bleak, at least for the regular season.  We still have to change as a team to be built for a playoff run, but I'm not worried about the regular season, even if we iced the same team we did this year (God forbid). 

 

Nice to finally see reason and logic in a post! People also forget hoe dominant the team was starting to become before Z went down with a bad back the first time. There was a stretch of games right before that where the team was looking fantastic (and this was without Pasha). There are a lot of positives to be taken from this season. It is a shame that so many only look at the big picture and predict doom and gloom. A feast of crow will be had for many soon enough.



#807 VM1138

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:31 PM

 

This was a wonderful post. So good, Rick. Wow! I love you man.


 

If we are going to magically say any games could've been wins with a lucky bounce, let's also say any games could've been losses with an unlucky one.

 

Be fair.

 

We were 14-14-7 on the 1st of December.

 

THAT IS NOT HOCKEYTOWN GOOD ENOUGH.

 

Well, if you won't look beyond the superficial numbers you get a view of the team that isn't really accurate.  Sort of like how teams use advanced metrics instead of simple +/- to determine how good a player is doing.  True, we could've lost games on a lucky bounce, too.  But I'm talking OT.  It's far more likely a lucky bounce affects an overtime game than a regulation game.  That's what I was getting at.  They win a few OT games or shootouts and they're sitting pretty.  

 

Next season's team should get a fresh start without all the dead weight and some key additions.


Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#808 Playmaker

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:15 PM

While I agree with all of the above in theory, the reality is we don't really know what the health of the team will be.  No telling when or if Weiss will be back to his old self.  We don't really know what's wrong with Pavel's knee, and he'll probably need surgery.  Helm's health is always a crap shoot.  Franzen, who knows what's wrong with him and when it will present itself.  Back issues are always tricky.  The lack of depth is what really kills the Wings.



#809 Shaman

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:17 PM

 

Nice to finally see reason and logic in a post! People also forget hoe dominant the team was starting to become before Z went down with a bad back the first time. There was a stretch of games right before that where the team was looking fantastic (and this was without Pasha). There are a lot of positives to be taken from this season. It is a shame that so many only look at the big picture and predict doom and gloom. A feast of crow will be had for many soon enough.

What crow? This team's core is a year older, Howard looked like s*** for most of the season, the defense was exposed as suspect. Unless there are major changes this team will continue to be a bubble team. This is doubly true when you have Holland and Babcock trying to build two different teams.

 

Kronwall will be 34 during next season

Datsyuk will be 36

Zetterberg will be 34

Franzen will be 35

Weiss will be 32

 

If brought back:

Bertuzzi will be 40

Alfie will be 42

 

 

Aside from Bertuzzi these are the core of the team, and they are all getting older. 

 

Nyquist and Tatar realistically will slot in as the new Hudler and Filppula in terms of production. Good to have but neither are realistic replacements for Datsyuk or Zetterberg in terms of production. Jurco and Pullkinen both are wild cards, both have a lot of talent. Mantha is the only blue chip forward prospect they have and still has a couple question marks next to his name. This team is dangerously thin on center in the farm, and defense drops off quickly after Ouellet and Sproul. 

 

So unless Detroit finds at least 1 center to replace Datsyuk/Zetterberg within the next three seasons, the team is in a lot of trouble. And they still haven't replaced Lidstrom, Rafalski, or Stuart on defense yet. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#810 wings7

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

 

Well, if you won't look beyond the superficial numbers you get a view of the team that isn't really accurate.  Sort of like how teams use advanced metrics instead of simple +/- to determine how good a player is doing.  True, we could've lost games on a lucky bounce, too.  But I'm talking OT.  It's far more likely a lucky bounce affects an overtime game than a regulation game.  That's what I was getting at.  They win a few OT games or shootouts and they're sitting pretty.  

 

Next season's team should get a fresh start without all the dead weight and some key additions.

 

The numbers are the team's RECORD!

 

Superficial? That's all we have to go on.

 

Unless you just want a team that's good on paper...



#811 ahkmed

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:18 PM

 

 

Nyquist and Tatar realistically will slot in as the new Hudler and Filppula in terms of production. Good to have but neither are realistic replacements for Datsyuk or Zetterberg in terms of production. Jurco and Pullkinen both are wild cards, both have a lot of talent. Mantha is the only blue chip forward prospect they have and still has a couple question marks next to his name. This team is dangerously thin on center in the farm, and defense drops off quickly after Ouellet and Sproul

 

Marchenko is probably ahead of those two in terms of being ready for NHL duty..and we also have Jensen, Backman & Almquist waiting for a chance to show Lashoff his rightful place as a healthy scratch







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