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Motown4013

Blessing in disguise?

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This season has been such a roller coaster for even the most seasoned Wings fan. Let's face it....We should be up near 65 points on the year with the talent we have....except we are in a dog fight for a playoff spot, praying for our " big guys" to get healthy. With that being said, I can't remember a season that I have been more emotionally invested in this team I love. It's so easy when you have all the cogs in the wheel to expect greatness. DEMAND wins. In certain years, one loss was a huge deal because we have seen this team be so dominant for so many years.

Saturday nights game made me realize how all of the injuries and all of the uncertainty has perhaps been a blessing in disguise. Sounds lame? Perhaps...but I have never been so happy for some of the young men on this team who have really stepped up. Acknowledge how much character is on this roster. I no longer expect a win....I REALLY want one and the victory somehow is a bit sweeter when we get one. I think of Tatar who plays like he is shot from a cannon every night...even the night after he found out his dad died. He is so fun to watch....and without injuries, he would have been a healthy scratch and we wouldn't have the opportunity to see his heart and how big it really is.

Guys like the Monster who was terrible last year is one of the reasons we are even in the wild card race. He has been fantastic and I am so happy for him that he has been able to resurrect his career. Jurco, Shehan, Mrazk and Glenny have all shown that the future is bright in Hockeytown. We have a ton of talent, character and heart on this team and we are finding in the most unusual places. I'm really proud of this team and although it's been a train wreck of year for injuries, it's shown the fans of this team that we can and will be contenders for years to come.

Ok, that's my warm fuzzy for today.

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I thought last year would teach Holland and Babcock that the youth movement was ready.

Unfortunately, it took a bunch of injuries to get guys like Sheahan or Jurco in the lineup. And Nyquist wasn't playing early on in the season, while old fools like Cleary, Bertuzzi and Sammy were getting gametime.

It's a blessing in disguise based on what happens next offseason. If it's more of the same, then it's hard to feel upbeat about the future. Holland and Babcock need to cut bait and not feel like loyalty should come before contribution.

I do like what I see from some of these youngsters, though.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I thought last year would teach Holland and Babcock that the youth movement was ready.

Unfortunately, it took a bunch of injuries to get guys like Sheahan or Jurco in the lineup. And Nyquist wasn't playing early on in the season, while old fools like Cleary, Bertuzzi and Sammy were getting gametime.

It's a blessing in disguise based on what happens next offseason. If it's more of the same, then it's hard to feel upbeat about the future. Holland and Babcock need to cut bait and not feel like loyalty should come before contribution.

I do like what I see from some of these youngsters, though.

Agreed. When Cleary, Sammy and Bert come of the books, we can actually play guys full time that deserve the spot!

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I enjoyed this post, and there are a few important facts. Biggest one for me is getting a look at the younglings that we otherwise wouldn't have for potentially years had we not been suffering these injuries all year. Sheahan absolutely would not have played a single game this year, but now that he has, he's already beginning to look like a roster player that we otherwise wouldn't have a clue of how ready he is to play. Tatar in a bigger role is producing and it makes me feel a bit more comfortable in the future if we do have more injuries that some can step up and deliver.

It's a situation of making the best out of the worst, every win is important, and what our kids are doing is vital to their future. Things could be so much worse right now, I keep trying to remind myself of that.

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Sheahan looks more ready than jurco, and jurco only looked a little out of place vs the rangers and last game vs the kings once maybe twice a game.

Sheahan absolutely should be on the team full time now, and theres no way he's not here next season, and as much as I love and want him to stay jurcos waiver exempt and could use the dominant line time in gr.

But imagine having a healthy center lineup of Pav, weiss, helm, and sheahan. As good as Andy is on the p.k. I think itd be dumb to say he's half as good as sheahan.

And even if Weiss doesn't pan out or doesn't stay healthy, glendennings a good fourth line c, with real good pk skills and he's got grit, and something Andy doesnt have especially, speed.

I'm excited.

But worried with what they'll end up doing.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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The young movement is a great thing, but as long as the front office keeps bringing back over the hill vets they won't get much playingtime (safe for injuries of course).

But I agree, seeing Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco competing hard every shift is really nice. I wouldn't talk about contender status right now, there are too many holes on the defense and the team still lacks a pure goalscorer - as has been the case since Hossa left - so personally I expect at least two more years of "retooling", till this team can be considered a contender again IF Holland/next GM can replace Z and Pasha via UFA.

Despite the young movement, the team needs a new identity hopefully this also starts next year with a real fourth line.

as for Weiss to me he is a buyout candidate alongside Mule

Edited by frankgrimes

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The young movement is a great thing, but as long as the front office keeps bringing back over the hill vets they won't get much playingtime (safe for injuries of course).

But I agree, seeing Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco competing hard every shift is really nice. I wouldn't talk about contender status right now, there are too many holes on the defense and the team still lacks a pure goalscorer - as has been the case since Hossa left - so personally I expect at least two more years of "retooling", till this team can be considered a contender again IF Holland/next GM can replace Z and Pasha via UFA.

Despite the young movement, the team needs a new identity hopefully this also starts next year with a real fourth line.

as for Weiss to me he is a buyout candidate alongside Mule

For the record if we choose to buy out Weiss well still be responsible for around 2 million a year for the remainder of his contract.

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For the record if we choose to buy out Weiss well still be responsible for around 2 million a year for the remainder of his contract.

I'd be fine with this. There will be enough cheap young RFA kids coming up over the next five years to keep the cap hit managable.

Another option would be to trade Weiss and eat some salary.

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I thought last year would teach Holland and Babcock that the youth movement was ready.

Unfortunately, it took a bunch of injuries to get guys like Sheahan or Jurco in the lineup. And Nyquist wasn't playing early on in the season, while old fools like Cleary, Bertuzzi and Sammy were getting gametime.

It's a blessing in disguise based on what happens next offseason. If it's more of the same, then it's hard to feel upbeat about the future. Holland and Babcock need to cut bait and not feel like loyalty should come before contribution.

I do like what I see from some of these youngsters, though.

Exactly. There's no stopping Holland from resigning Bertuzzi and Cleary. Bert because of his "size" and Cleary because they probably promised him an extension based on the fact that he took a "discount" this year. To that, I add " :confused: ".

Edited by rick zombo

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I'd be fine with this. There will be enough cheap young RFA kids coming up over the next five years to keep the cap hit managable.

Another option would be to trade Weiss and eat some salary.

Yeah rather pay 2 m for Weiss and use the 3 m to get a big body physical third line center, who knows his roll and works hard every shift and can be trusted to do some second line duties if needed.

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Like it has been mentioned, I'll have to believe it when I see it.

I'll be at full optimism mode when Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Quincey, etc. are no longer on the team.

We have been scorned by the Holland/Babcock duo enough to lead us to not be sure what to expect. I thought there wasn't a chance in hell that Cleary would be back. And then the season started, and Tatar was sitting while Cleary was falling over his own feet.

They do a lot of head scratching things, so I dunno...

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Like I've said before, vets like Cleary, Sammy and Bert were brought back just for scenarios like this, where their leadership and offensive contribution would be helpful to an injury riddled team. That's the only thing I can envision Holland thinking.

Unfortunately, those guys have done nothing to help while others have been out of the lineup.

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I don't know if I have anything intelligent to add, but I agree with the OP and others - the best things about being a Wings fan these days are the young players. Stats are one thing, but as a spectator you can't help but notice them on the ice. Speed, skill, energy, hustle... they all stand out.

I don't understand why the Wings have held on to the rookie training wheels mentality for so long (as well as the keep the old guys forever mentality). When we had unlimited funds to spend it made sense to keep the kids in GR for years and years waiting for them to reach a level worthy of playing with Yzerman, Lidstrom... and so on. Yes, some kids need time to develop, but plenty offer the kind of drive and hunger that is sorely lacking on our bench. Why shouldn't every single player be competing for their job? It is easy to imagine that some of our underperforming veterans would play differently if there was someone else gunning for their job.

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It just too bad it's been the "wrong" people out.

LOL, I'm embarrassed to say that I've thought about this as well.

Pav was having seemingly a career year and he goes down, but Cleary has stayed healthy all year? Mule was starting to heat up then gets hurt, but Quincey has been available to lead the team in penalties and play every game? Cool....

Ok, I'm done being an insensitive jerk...

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Yeah rather pay 2 m for Weiss and use the 3 m to get a big body physical third line center, who knows his roll and works hard every shift and can be trusted to do some second line duties if needed.

Yeah. If Weiss can't get healthy and regain his old form, I'd want him gone just to free up roster space. We'd still need a second line center though, so that problem isn't going away.

That third line center you speak of could very well be Sheahan.

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as for Weiss to me he is a buyout candidate alongside Mule

Buy out Mule lol?? Our 25-30 goal scorer who gets paid peanuts compared to other players of his caliber (3.95 million)

I can understand that some people give Franzen slack because he could be more consistent sometimes. But to ever consider giving up a player this good for 3.9 a year is insane. Franzen was phenomenal and carried this team through injury's before he himself got hurt.

Good thing Holland doesn't listen to any of you guys or Yzerman would snag Franzen and Tampa Bay would be winning a cup with the players he snagged from us, who happened to be guys these forums wanted gone.

As good as Andy is on the p.k. I think itd be dumb to say he's half as good as sheahan.

Andersson is 7th in points for forward scoring and one of the few people who managed to stay healthy. I have no idea how you can consider Sheahan who only only scored 36 points in 72 games with Grand Rapids last year better than Andy. Sheahan has a higher point pace in the NHL than he did in the AHL, Do you really think that's going to last? Just because he happened to show up on the stat sheet a few times early don't start considering a player with a few games better than proven players.

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Andersson is 7th in points for forward scoring and one of the few people who managed to stay healthy. I have no idea how you can consider Sheahan who only only scored 36 points in 72 games with Grand Rapids last year better than Andy. Sheahan has a higher point pace in the NHL than he did in the AHL, Do you really think that's going to last? Just because he happened to show up on the stat sheet a few times early don't start considering a player with a few games better than proven players.

Keep in mind that there is a lot more to a players game than the stat sheet, and points totals. Sheahan is making a really good name for himself, and some will have to go to make room for him sooner than later.

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Buy out Mule lol?? Our 25-30 goal scorer who gets paid peanuts compared to other players of his caliber (3.95 million)

I can understand that some people give Franzen slack because he could be more consistent sometimes. But to ever consider giving up a player this good for 3.9 a year is insane. Franzen was phenomenal and carried this team through injury's before he himself got hurt.

Good thing Holland doesn't listen to any of you guys or Yzerman would snag Franzen and Tampa Bay would be winning a cup with the players he snagged from us, who happened to be guys these forums wanted gone.

Andersson is 7th in points for forward scoring and one of the few people who managed to stay healthy. I have no idea how you can consider Sheahan who only only scored 36 points in 72 games with Grand Rapids last year better than Andy. Sheahan has a higher point pace in the NHL than he did in the AHL, Do you really think that's going to last? Just because he happened to show up on the stat sheet a few times early don't start considering a player with a few games better than proven players.

Andersson is out right now with a lower body injury. So that's not true.

I generally agree with everything else. The thing with Sheahan though is that he projects to be the better player. He has more upside.

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Keep in mind that there is a lot more to a players game than the stat sheet, and points totals. Sheahan is making a really good name for himself, and some will have to go to make room for him sooner than late

Lol yeah... What I was arguing is that I know most people are looking way to much into Sheahan's points. If Sheahan played the exact same and had two less goals right now we wouldn't be having this conversation because these guys wouldn't be overly high on him and saying hes better than Andy. I always argued in favor of Filppula year after year, but everyone around he judged him so negatively on his stats alone, now that he left now they all would love to have him back. That's one example.

Sheahan looks pretty good so far, but we shouldn't be jumping the gun. Especially making premature judgements that hes more valuable to our team than Andy who has been a great bottom six guy for us.

Andersson is out right now with a lower body injury. So that's not true.

I generally agree with everything else. The thing with Sheahan though is that he projects to be the better player. He has more upside.

Your right about that but he has still played more games than 95% of our team.

Sheahan does look like he has some upside, never was trying to imply he doesn't. I just get annoyed sometimes when I read posts around here. When we lose our team sucks so bad and our future is dim and our prospects aren't going to turn this team around. When we win we are the best ever. When someone doesn't score a point per game they are useless and need to be traded. When someone goes on a 6 game point streak suddenly they are the best player ever when two weeks ago everyone was calling for their head. I might be over exaggerating a tad but I'm just trying to make a point. I just find it amazing.

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For the record if we choose to buy out Weiss well still be responsible for around 2 million a year for the remainder of his contract.

For the record, that's incorrect. If the Wings were buy out Weiss this coming June as a compliance buy out, which they have one of they can use, they would owe him 2/3rds of his remaining salary & there would be no cap hit. If it were a regular buy out, they would still owe him 2/3rds of his remaining salary & will still carry a cap hit over twice the remaining years of his original contract. The cap hit varies year over year based on savings against that year's original salary & his original cap hit. If Weiss were to receive a regular buy out this June, here's how the Wings cap hit for him would break down:

2014-15: $2,108,333

2015-16: $608,333

2016-17: $608,333

2017-18: $2,608,333

2018-19: $1,708,333

2019-20: $1,708,333

2020-21: $1,708,333

2021-22: $1,708,333

See more here: http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=812&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15

Edited by ogreslayer

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Sheahan Only has one goal.

In eight games.

I'm not saying Andy's bad, but sheahans stronger, faster, grittier and has better hands.

Once again Andy's awesome on the pk.

Awesome.

And he's good one faceoffs, but so is sheahan, and he is a good 3rd line center capable of playing 2nd line c.

And if I'm reading correctly, one post said to buy out Weiss in order to bring in a guy like him, or helm, or as some argued Andy.

Im not trying to start waves just saying why eat 2 mil in cap when we really don't have to.

I think Weiss will be fine once he's healthy and gets back into playing shape.

But I absolutely agree it is obnoxious to see the ups and downs of this forum based off of a win or a loss, I've said that before.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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For the record, that's incorrect. If the Wings were buy out Weiss this coming June as a compliance buy out, which they have one of they can use, they would owe him 2/3rds of his remaining salary & there would be no cap hit. If it were a regular buy out, they would still owe him 2/3rds of his remaining salary & will still carry a cap hit over twice the remaining years of his original contract. The cap hit varies year over year based on savings against that year's original salary & his original cap hit. If Weiss were to receive a regular buy out this June, here's how the Wings cap hit for him would break down:

2014-15: $2,108,333

2015-16: $608,333

2016-17: $608,333

2017-18: $2,608,333

2018-19: $1,708,333

2019-20: $1,708,333

2020-21: $1,708,333

2021-22: $1,708,333

See more here: http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=812&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15

You cant use our remaining compliance buy out on contracts signed after the new CBA.

So Like I said.

AROUND 2 million a year, aside from the two years it would cost us 600,000.

Still not attractive numbers. Just to get rid of him, the cap is going up but that could argue the point for keeping him and buying him out.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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