Blessing in disguise?

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Like I said.

AROUND 2 million a year, aside from the two years it would cost us 600,000.

Still not attractive numbers. Just to get rid of him, the cap is going up but that could argue the point for keeping him and buying him out.

But also not for the life of the contract as you stated which would be 4 years, but for twice the remaining length so 8. Regardless, if they were to buy him out (which they won't) they would use their remaining compliance buyout.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

But also not for the life of the contract as you stated which would be 4 years, but for twice the remaining length so 8. Regardless, if they were to buy him out (which they won't) they would use their remaining compliance buyout.

I just edited my last post to specify, but the compliance buy outs were for contracts signed before the new CBA was put in.

[rick zombo 3,739]

For the record, that's incorrect. If the Wings were buy out Weiss this coming June as a compliance buy out, which they have one of they can use, they would owe him 2/3rds of his remaining salary & there would be no cap hit. If it were a regular buy out, they would still owe him 2/3rds of his remaining salary & will still carry a cap hit over twice the remaining years of his original contract. The cap hit varies year over year based on savings against that year's original salary & his original cap hit. If Weiss were to receive a regular buy out this June, here's how the Wings cap hit for him would break down:

2014-15: $2,108,333

2015-16: $608,333

2016-17: $608,333

2017-18: $2,608,333

2018-19: $1,708,333

2019-20: $1,708,333

2020-21: $1,708,333

2021-22: $1,708,333

See more here: http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=812&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15

Pretty sure this has been addressed here on LGWs before, but anyway, Weiss is not eligible for a compliance buyout. His contract was signed post-lockout. A regular buyout would be the only option.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Pretty sure this has been addressed here on LGWs before, but anyway, Weiss is not eligible for a compliance buyout. His contract was signed post-lockout. A regular buyout would be the only option.

Yeah, I don't know why I was thinking he was signed before. Still, Weiss would end up being on the books until 2022 instead of 2018 if a buyout were to happen so I think that's a non-starter. If anyone gets bought out by the Wings this next off season, it will end up being Tootoo.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Yeah, I don't know why I was thinking he was signed before. Still, Weiss would end up being on the books until 2022 instead of 2018 if a buyout were to happen so I think that's a non-starter. If anyone gets bought out by the Wings this next off season, it will end up being Tootoo.

It would sting a lot to visit this scenario. But IF Weiss can't stay healthy or get his game back, we can't have this. This team desperatley needs a 2nd line center. We can't be over-paying Weiss to center the third or forth line. Besides we seem to have about 32 guys that can all play in the bottom six.

[stillwater 186]

I'm going to agree with the opening post. Without all the injuries many of the young guys from GR would never have gotten the chance to play this season. They're learning quickly and they've been fun to watch.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

It would sting a lot to visit this scenario. But IF Weiss can't stay healthy or get his game back, we can't have this. This team desperatley needs a 2nd line center. We can't be over-paying Weiss to center the third or forth line. Besides we seem to have about 32 guys that can all play in the bottom six.

Once you start looking at who will more than likely be re-signed & won't make it to free agency, the list of UFA centers this off season is pretty thin. I think that giving Weiss time to get healthy for next season is a better option than signing a Olli Jokinen or Steve Ott. Give Weiss another year & if he doesn't rebound, give Helm if healthy, Sheahan, or Jarnkrok if he's ready to go a crack at it.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Once you start looking at who will more than likely be re-signed & won't make it to free agency, the list of UFA centers this off season is pretty thin. I think that giving Weiss time to get healthy for next season is a better option than signing a Olli Jokinen or Steve Ott. Give Weiss another year & if he doesn't rebound, give Helm if healthy, Sheahan, or Jarnkrok if he's ready to go a crack at it.

This is exactly what Holland will do, no doubt. Although he might make a call to Statsny’s agent on July first to kick some tires.

[Motown4013 350]

Another really good game by our young guns. Tats, Deke played great tonight!

Not a young guy but Eaves was AMAZING tonight.....I can't remember watching him play a better game.

All heart boys! Well done!

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Do you think it was the embarrassment of clearing waivers, or the confidence of dominating in gr that helped eaves pick his game up?

[Guest mjtm77]

Eaves has always played well when giving a not 4th line roll

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I'd be fine with this. There will be enough cheap young RFA kids coming up over the next five years to keep the cap hit managable.

Another option would be to trade Weiss and eat some salary.

Does Weiss have a no trade? As hard as it is to believe I gotta think there can't be one team who'd take him off our hands even if it's just for a 7th Rounder ..... Nashville comes to mind they got no offence there at all and no one ever signs there

Teams can still use the "maybe a change of scenery will do him good " excuse

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Weiss hasn't been healthy all year, other than maybe a short stretch shortly before he went on IR this last time. He hurt his groin in preseason, re-aggravated the injury, then had the sports hernia. It's short sighted and stupid to judge him based on that when he has a history of good production in Florida. As someone who has had a groin injury, I know how tricky they can be. You think you're feeling ok, then you push it just a little more, and you hurt it again. They will NOT buy him out or waive him, and I doubt they'd use the buy out even if they could. Would you go to your boss and tell him that you screwed up and it's going to cost him several million dollars paying for something he's not going to get any value at all for? I sure as hell wouldn't unless I was ready to retire. There are only 2 candidates for the compliance buy out, Tootoo (probable) and Franzen (not likely but possible).

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

But that (more or less) was the fourth line.

I mean.

They were supposed to be.

But clearly helm and bert , no matter how well helm carried them (even though they were like negative 3? Plus)

idk if babs meant to play them to try and spark them. Of to show kh why not to bring em back.

Either way.

And once again....they can't use a compliance buy out on weiss.

A regular buy out yes.

But it'd cost us close to 2 million dollars a year for eight years aside from two years where its like 600,000.

Cap hit.

That is.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Does Weiss have a no trade? As hard as it is to believe I gotta think there can't be one team who'd take him off our hands even if it's just for a 7th Rounder ..... Nashville comes to mind they got no offence there at all and no one ever signs there

Teams can still use the "maybe a change of scenery will do him good " excuse

Weiss has a modified NTC.

[e_prime 1,936]

Weiss is going nowhere.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Weiss is going nowhere.

I honestly can't wait until he gets back and starts dominating. There's a tendency (particularly around LGW) to just assume that there's no cause for his poor play, and that the only remedy is to move him. The guy has a 10 year track record of success in the NHL. He didn't just forget how to play hockey one day, and he isn't a flash in the pan either. He's been hurt...all year...and soon he'll be healthy. And then he'll be good.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

The young movement is a great thing, but as long as the front office keeps bringing back over the hill vets they won't get much playingtime (safe for injuries of course).

But I agree, seeing Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco competing hard every shift is really nice. I wouldn't talk about contender status right now, there are too many holes on the defense and the team still lacks a pure goalscorer - as has been the case since Hossa left - so personally I expect at least two more years of "retooling", till this team can be considered a contender again IF Holland/next GM can replace Z and Pasha via UFA.

Despite the young movement, the team needs a new identity hopefully this also starts next year with a real fourth line.

as for Weiss to me he is a buyout candidate alongside Mule

The pure goalscorer thing is something that doesn't bother me as much as most. We do have Franzen and possibly Mantha in the future, but with a healthy lineup like I said in another thread, with the kids still in and Cleary and Tuzzi in the press box, we have a team that could score by committee. I see that as a St. Louis Blues type deal. They don't really have a pure goalscorer and they're 3rd in the league. We could compare our kids to guys they have as well. Tatar to Terasenko, Sheahan to Steen, Nyquist to Schwarz and Jurco to Oshie, as far as skills and player style goes. If the Wings have the kids come up and push the pace of games on the other team like we used to and help us compete at an elite level again, we can win games by committee rather than rely on Ovechkin or the Sedin sisters. And healthy, who do the Blues have that compares to Dats and Z? The future is bright if the right guys play the games.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Side Note: If I'm not mistaken, after the trade deadline, the roster limit is gone, so we can keep Sheahan and Jurco up for good, that meaning forever, not just the rest of the season.

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Side Note: If I'm not mistaken, after the trade deadline, the roster limit is gone, so we can keep Sheahan and Jurco up for good, that meaning forever, not just the rest of the season.

Roster limit may be gone but the salary cap is still in place through the end of the regular season. Depending on who is healthy, there might not be cap room for either or both.

[StormJH1 231]

Weiss hasn't been healthy all year, other than maybe a short stretch shortly before he went on IR this last time. He hurt his groin in preseason, re-aggravated the injury, then had the sports hernia. It's short sighted and stupid to judge him based on that when he has a history of good production in Florida. As someone who has had a groin injury, I know how tricky they can be. You think you're feeling ok, then you push it just a little more, and you hurt it again. They will NOT buy him out or waive him, and I doubt they'd use the buy out even if they could. Would you go to your boss and tell him that you screwed up and it's going to cost him several million dollars paying for something he's not going to get any value at all for? I sure as hell wouldn't unless I was ready to retire. There are only 2 candidates for the compliance buy out, Tootoo (probable) and Franzen (not likely but possible).

Amen. Don't get me wrong, I'm very discouraged that our new FA signing with a prior injury history has been either pretty terrible, hurt, or both at virtually all points this year. But his injury suggests that he was "healthy" for all of, what, 10-15 games before the groin acted up? Just dropping him into an established system with aging, slower wingers on his flank and expecting him to run the show immediately - it's a nice idea, but not very realistic. Weiss is better than he has shown, and even if he turns out to be an awful signing, he isn't getting traded, waived, bought out, or any of the above any time soon.

The "blessing in disguise" is that all of these injuries are forcing guys like Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, etc. into the lineup and they actually look like they belong in the NHL. Jurco...he may need a little more ripening, but the talent is obviously there. If everyone were healthy, these guys would be scratched or in GR much of the time in favor of Sammy, Cleary, Eaves, etc., instead of playing alongside them and being asked to be the catalysts.

This is the exact reason the Wings "overpeformed" last postseason - they surged late to get into the playoffs and damn near knocked off the SC champion in 7. And it happened because by the time the key players got healthy, the young players had played critical minutes down the stretch and became seasoned pros.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Any other GM in hockey would view the fact that he's got rookies able to outplay vets as a "blessing in disguise". They'd say to themselves, "look at all these capable forwards I've got. I should trade some of them for things we need and/or draft picks". Any other GM would then actually move some of those players and in doing so, free up the logjam which is the reason many of these guys aren't playing consistently in the first place.

Any other GM.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

Weiss hasn't been healthy all year, other than maybe a short stretch shortly before he went on IR this last time. He hurt his groin in preseason, re-aggravated the injury, then had the sports hernia. It's short sighted and stupid to judge him based on that when he has a history of good production in Florida. As someone who has had a groin injury, I know how tricky they can be. You think you're feeling ok, then you push it just a little more, and you hurt it again. They will NOT buy him out or waive him, and I doubt they'd use the buy out even if they could. Would you go to your boss and tell him that you screwed up and it's going to cost him several million dollars paying for something he's not going to get any value at all for? I sure as hell wouldn't unless I was ready to retire. There are only 2 candidates for the compliance buy out, Tootoo (probable) and Franzen (not likely but possible).

This. Well said, Dickie.