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Leaders need to be leaders


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#1 ash11

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:39 AM

Ok i know the title is stupid, bug i hope im not the only one thinking it, for one z hasn't played well the last couple games, it might just be me and yes i know he does not have much to work with but still, he had multiple give aways just in this blues game alone. Hes a great player and leader but i do think he has to step it up, i feel like tats (the last few games) and helm (blues game) have been showing what others need to be playing like. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#2 TheDetroitRedWings

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:13 AM

Tough to judge Z too harshly right now considering the amount of key players that are out. Even the best leaders ever can't always win games by themselves. Sure he had a few giveaways tonight, but that's gonna happen sometimes to even the best players. Z is a great leader and captain. And generally is amazing defensively. Honestly, if there is anyone to blame through all this, it's Mike Babcock. I still think Babs is a great coach and motivator. But when it comes to dolling out minutes and assembling line combos, he basically throws common sense and logic out the window. Things aren't looking great right now, but there is no doubt in my mind that if we can get healthy we'll contend. Although obviously that's a pretty big "if" right now.


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#3 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:19 AM

Zett has 3 points in his last two games, and in an offensively slumping season he is still scoring slightly above a point per game. He is human, mistakes are going to happen, Z isn't the problem here. 

 

We can pick apart however many reasons we can to find an alternate reason as to why this team is in the shape it is in, but it continues to go back to the main reason. Injuries and commitment to aging roster players that no longer serve a valuable function.

 

Blaming individual players at this point isn't fair because we are playing at half strength. It's a constant game of shuffle and adapt as players continue to come and go. It's been the story of this season and last. Some guys need to retire, some kids need to play more, and most guys need to stay healthy for more regular periods of time before things begin to improve. It is going to be a lot of up and down until then. 


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#4 Dabura

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:16 AM

Zett has 3 points in his last two games, and in an offensively slumping season he is still scoring slightly above a point per game. He is human, mistakes are going to happen, Z isn't the problem here. 

 

We can pick apart however many reasons we can to find an alternate reason as to why this team is in the shape it is in, but it continues to go back to the main reason. Injuries and commitment to aging roster players that no longer serve a valuable function.

 

Blaming individual players at this point isn't fair because we are playing at half strength. It's a constant game of shuffle and adapt as players continue to come and go. It's been the story of this season and last. Some guys need to retire, some kids need to play more, and most guys need to stay healthy for more regular periods of time before things begin to improve. It is going to be a lot of up and down until then. 

 

Well said. If we're not dealing with a crazy-bad injury situation, we're probably not having this conversation at all.

 

But I can also get behind the notion that if there is a leader who needs to get his poop together, it's Mike Babcock. Like, ok, Mike, we get that you're a simple, straightfoward kind of guy who likes fighting bears in the Canadian wilderness and who believes in good old-fashioned things like trust, compete, maple syrup, and Dan Daniel Danny Cleary. But...last night? What were you thinking, man? Someone put it really well in the GDT: Uh oh, Tatar's the only one out there who's really creating anything with what he's given! Better bench him!


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#5 mjtm77

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:28 AM

Z played great. He was checked tightly all night
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#6 frankgrimes

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:46 AM

Assume for a second, how this team would be playing without Z and Pasha ? We wouldn't be talking about making the playoffs, we would be talking about a top 5 pick ( wouldn't mind that at all ).

Like others said, it's tough to blame individuals and to some extent even Babcock, Holland just hasn't given him much to work with and without the two remaining stars things would be very grim.

The only positive so far, is the game of Nyquist, Tatar, Danny Dekeyser and Sheahan. Helm just came back after another injury, so I wouldn't judge him too soon.

Z is trying his best, he obiously isn't an alltime great like St. Nick but none the less a great player and leader, sadly I think we won't be seeing him or Pasha with another cup :(

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#7 evilzyme

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:23 AM

With all the key injuries to the top 6 other coaches have the pleasure of matching against zetterberg and singling him out as the sole threat of our top 6. He's getting shadowed all game long to the point of having absolutely no time and space. He doesn't have the linemates to help him create that space because they aren't as big of threats. Teams know the situation we're in. When you go against a deep team as the Blues you're going to be in for a treat when your top 6 consist majority of bottom 6 skill.

None the less I think the vastly underrated element is how poor our D is right now. They're fragile and easily worked. They can't get the puck moved up for a smooth transition because teams know all they have to do is wheel it in and turn them around. Throw 2 bodies in deep against them and that puck isn't leaving the zone. We need our D to get some confidence and have the puck moving through the neutral zone with speed. The best asset to offense can be a puck moving defensive core. You need your d to make that quick transition. We can't do that currently and its hurting us drastically.

All in all, it would be great if we got healthy ;) ....and a top 2 puck moving d man :)

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#8 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:28 AM

It's not really surprising that Z had a bad game last night.  He's one of only two offensive threats on our team right now, and we were playing one of the three best defensive teams in hockey.  I imagine it's REALLY hard to play well with David Backes draped all over you for 60 minutes.


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#9 Shutemdown

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:35 AM

Tootoo could lead this team.

#10 GoWings!

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:52 PM

Tootoo is a nice energy spark and Babcock not playing him because he fights is asinine. What did this organization expect from Tootoo when they signed him? Anyways, there's no way he is a caliber of a leader that Z is. If you're expecting more from Z then Z better learn to pass to himself using the boards or something cause no one, aside from Tatar, knows how to put the god damn puck in the net. We aren't functioning well in most of the hockey aspects. We aren't scoring, we are giving up over 35 shots every game now, no clutch goaltending and a very weak, non physical unit out there playing mistake riddled defense. I don't agree with these lines. We need scoring and if we need to score more than 1 goal then we will have to put our best scorers on the same line right now. Putting Nyquist with Bertuzzi or Tatar with Cleary isn't gonna get us goals. Guys like Tatar and Jurco need to be out on the pp with Z. I like Babcock but I feel like I don't see a motivated bunch and these veteran plugs are useless. Still plenty of season left and I don't fear anyone in the East from the 4th seed down so definitely have time to right the ship. 



#11 rick zombo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:59 PM

More like:

 

"GM needs to be GM"


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#12 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:09 PM

Zett has 3 points in his last two games, and in an offensively slumping season he is still scoring slightly above a point per game. He is human, mistakes are going to happen, Z isn't the problem here. 

 

We can pick apart however many reasons we can to find an alternate reason as to why this team is in the shape it is in, but it continues to go back to the main reason. Injuries and commitment to aging roster players that no longer serve a valuable function.

 

Blaming individual players at this point isn't fair because we are playing at half strength. It's a constant game of shuffle and adapt as players continue to come and go. It's been the story of this season and last. Some guys need to retire, some kids need to play more, and most guys need to stay healthy for more regular periods of time before things begin to improve. It is going to be a lot of up and down until then. 

On top of that, he's likely pretty tired from carrying the team for so long.  Most mistakes come from fatigue, and Z's gotta have a fair amount of that at the moment.


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#13 RedWang

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

Z is the furthest thing from the problem. Hes a beast. His back is literally crumbling from carrying this team the last 2 years. Hes doing his best and thats all we can ask of him.

#14 rick zombo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

Z is the furthest thing from the problem. Hes a beast. His back is literally crumbling from carrying this team the last 2 years. Hes doing his best and thats all we can ask of him.

 

Exactly. If anything, Zetterberg deserves a medal and all of our women.


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#15 Richdg

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:22 PM

Sorry but leadership isn't this teams problem. old age, lack of talent, injuries, lack of toughness, and new lines every night are the issues.



#16 RedWang

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:24 PM

 
Exactly. If anything, Zetterberg deserves a medal and all of our women.


He doesnt need our help, have you seen Mrs Z? A dime piece.

#17 dirtydangles

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:32 PM

The biggest problem is all the leaders watching from the dressing room nursing injuries. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#18 stillwater

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:36 PM

The fact that Zetterberg didn't score 5 goals and singlehandedly beat the Blues is reason enough to package him with Jimmy Howard in exchange for a top-4 defenseman and a tough guy who hasn't been born yet.

#19 beachwing

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:44 PM

Put Tootoo on 1st or 2nd line. After he grabs you 35pts and wreaks havoc with his energy Babs could easily move him for someone that could get you 30-35pts, hit, grind, protect, fight(if needed) and energize teammates and crowd....oh wait!

#20 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:01 PM

The fact that Zetterberg didn't score 5 goals and singlehandedly beat the Blues is reason enough to package him with Jimmy Howard in exchange for a top-4 defenseman and a tough guy who hasn't been born yet.

Wait.
If youre here....
Who's guarding the bridge?

And z was just physically outmatched vs the blues. case in point that cross checking penalty, usually he's stronger on the puck than the d or his opposing center is strong, as for the giveaways...
Pavel datsyuk himself has had turnovers, granted he usually goes and steals it back himself.
That whole first line aside from Abby was just no match physically for the blues.

I haven't seen the ice time but at some points sheahan and glendennings lines were out against the backes line, not saying they're stronger than z it just shows how tough the blues team is to match up against.
They're built big, physical, and deep, and imo were caught in between trying to build/retool our team to a balance of size (with some skill) and our old ultra skilled small line ups.

Were losing because of lack of NHL caliber talent due to injuries, and were giving up wayyy too many shots and quality scoring chances.
They're winning face-off battles, starting with the puck, but still allowing upwards of 40, 50, shots on our goal.
You can't win like that.

Put Tootoo on 1st or 2nd line. After he grabs you 35pts and wreaks havoc with his energy Babs could easily move him for someone that could get you 30-35pts, hit, grind, protect, fight(if needed) and energize teammates and crowd....oh wait!


I agree that he was used wrong,
But Tootoos not in their game-plan.

So continually throwing his name into posts doesn't do much but rile up those who think he's the answer to every problem.

Edit: Thats not a bad idea though.
Throw him alongside skill, let him get on a tear scoring and throwing his body around just to raise his value so we can move him.
He's a heart and soul guy, seems to be an awesome teammate, and I like him so i wanna see him get another chance somewhere he'd be in the franchises plans for their future.
He deserves that.
But no ones gonna touch him with that salary.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 21 January 2014 - 05:14 PM.






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