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#21 RedWang

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

 
Well Schenn was Toronto's version of Smith, and while I would gladly move Smith for a guy like JVR imagine how apes*** everyone around here would go...well until they saw him play anyway. 


We'd be sitting here so smug like "just wait till you guys see him play"...man Kip, this talks getting me too excited about something thatll never happen :( :( :(

#22 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:48 PM

We'd be sitting here so smug like "just wait till you guys see him play"...man Kip, this talks getting me too excited about something thatll never happen :( :( :(

 

Yeah, I agree.  I keep (foolishly) hoping to wake up and hop online and see the headline "Red Wings trade for..." but to no avail.  Honestly, there are a ton of things wrong with this team right now, but one of the biggest is our GM's stubborn refusal to make any moves whatsoever.  There's not a lot you can do with the dead weight, but given how bad we're playing you have to at least entertain the idea of moving some young pieces for things we need.  If I'm Holland I put the word out that our 1st, Nyquist, Smith, and any prospects not named Mantha or Sproul are moveable (in some combination) for a top six winger with size.  Just to see what kind of offers we'd get.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#23 RedWang

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:02 PM

 
Yeah, I agree.  I keep (foolishly) hoping to wake up and hop online and see the headline "Red Wings trade for..." but to no avail.  Honestly, there are a ton of things wrong with this team right now, but one of the biggest is our GM's stubborn refusal to make any moves whatsoever.  There's not a lot you can do with the dead weight, but given how bad we're playing you have to at least entertain the idea of moving some young pieces for things we need.  If I'm Holland I put the word out that our 1st, Nyquist, Smith, and any prospects not named Mantha or Sproul are moveable (in some combination) for a top six winger with size.  Just to see what kind of offers we'd get.


The way things have been going, im on board with this idea. Except keep Jurco as well.

#24 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:08 PM

The way things have been going, im on board with this idea. Except keep Jurco as well.

 

I mean, I REALLY like Jurco.  Especially in combination with Sheahan, but I'd entertain it.  But I'd need a BIG return to move Jurco AND a guy like Nyquist or Smith.  I look at it this way, the Sens got Ryan for a package which was essentially Ottawa's versions of Nyquist, Frk, and a 1st.  I don't think we need anyone as good as Ryan, so a combination of Nyquist and a 1st, or Smith and a 1st should get us the return we need. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#25 rick zombo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:18 PM

 

I mean, I REALLY like Jurco.  Especially in combination with Sheahan, but I'd entertain it.  But I'd need a BIG return to move Jurco AND a guy like Nyquist or Smith.  I look at it this way, the Sens got Ryan for a package which was essentially Ottawa's versions of Nyquist, Frk, and a 1st.  I don't think we need anyone as good as Ryan, so a combination of Nyquist and a 1st, or Smith and a 1st should get us the return we need. 

 

Anaheim were looking to move Ryan for quite some time. So those circumstances favoured Ottawa a bit. And, for the record, Silfverberg > Nyquist (IMO).

 

But I see what you're saying.

 

I wonder if Nyquist + 1st would get us Wheeler?


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#26 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:23 PM

 

Anaheim were looking to move Ryan for quite some time. So those circumstances favoured Ottawa a bit. And, for the record, Silfverberg > Nyquist (IMO).

 

But I see what you're saying.

 

I wonder if Nyquist + 1st would get us Wheeler?

 

I don't think it would land us Wheeler, but it would be a good starting point.  Add a decent prospect, Pulkkinen or Jarnkrok and that might do it.  Then again, I don't know if Winnipeg is looking for offense or defense.  If they wanted defense I'd do Smith, 1st, and Marcheko for Wheeler, but that's just me.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#27 Richdg

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:38 PM

Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.

 

2013/14:

Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.

 

2014/15:

Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.

 

2015/16:

Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!

 

2016/17:

Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.

 

2017/18:

Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee,  and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.

 

2018/19:

yet to be determined.......



#28 rick zombo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:41 PM

Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.

 

2013/14:

Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.

 

2014/15:

Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.

 

2015/16:

Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!

 

2016/17:

Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.

 

2017/18:

Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee,  and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.

 

2018/19:

yet to be determined.......

 

Can we trade all those guys for Malkin? :ninja:


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#29 DickieDunn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:45 PM

Before we all come up with our opinions of trades, signing, etc..... please stop. Those are all opinions, I am trying to stay focused on what we actually know. We know what players are signed and under control. if others are added or subtracted later-which will happen in some form, we don't know that today. I for example am hoping they finally buyout franzen. With mounting health issues, that may come to pass. But again we don't know that today.

For example. Almquist either is on the team next year or he is gone. He will never pass through waivers. I expect a move involving him. But I can't say what that move is, thus he isn't listed. I would expect Holland to be smart enough to not just let him be taken in waivers.

 

So you just want to list players and when they're not waiver exempt?  Almquist would most likley pass through waivers if needed.  Nobody is going to want a midget defenseman who doesn't skate better than he does.  He'll either sign a 2 way deal and try to win a spot in camp somewhere or go back home next year.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#30 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:46 PM

Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.

 

2013/14:

Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.

 

2014/15:

Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.

 

2015/16:

Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!

 

2016/17:

Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.

 

2017/18:

Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee,  and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.

 

2018/19:

yet to be determined.......

 

Yeah, but you can't simply say "a guy's up and playing well in the NHL and therefore don't trade him".  If you never traded a guy who was playing well, you'd never get anything of value.  You have to consider the possibility of trading a Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, Sheahan, Jurco (one of them, not multiple) if you want something of value.  Nobody is going to give you a Wheeler, Ladd, Kane, etc. for unproven potential.  You need to include guys that have shown they can play well in the NHL and then sweeten the pot with picks or prospects. 

 

Which begs the question, "if a guy is playing well in the NHL then why trade him"? Which is the Ken Holland school of thought.  You trade him because the guy you get back fills a need better, or because you're bleeding prospects and don't have room for them all, or the upside on the return is greater than what's going out.  There's a ton of reasons to part with quality talent.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#31 DickieDunn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys.  The Wings have a bunch of guys like that.  When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't.  Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#32 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:50 PM

The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys.  The Wings have a bunch of guys like that.  When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't.  Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.

 

Agreed 3000%


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#33 rick zombo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:57 PM

The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys.  The Wings have a bunch of guys like that.  When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't.  Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.

 

But this begs the question: who would trade a large top 6 scoring winger for a small one? It's not like hockey is played on an army training-style obstacle course with little holes that guys have to crawl through.


Edited by rick zombo, 21 January 2014 - 03:57 PM.

"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#34 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:11 PM

 

But this begs the question: who would trade a large top 6 scoring winger for a small one? It's not like hockey is played on an army training-style obstacle course with little holes that guys have to crawl through.

 

It wouldn't likely be a one for one trade.  Nyquist + 1st, or something like that. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#35 DickieDunn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:15 PM

 

It wouldn't likely be a one for one trade.  Nyquist + 1st, or something like that. 

This.  


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#36 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

The other thing I'd be looking for is a guy who's trending upward, but who isn't established yet.  A guy like Neal was for Dallas.  If you're willing to part with a quality piece you can usually get guys like this and hopefully they were scouted well enough that they can really flourish in your system.  Obviously you need to have quality scouts (which we supposedly do) but also you wouldn't need to give up nearly as much as an established guy. 

 

Following this line of though, one guy I've been interested in is Mikkel Boedker from Phoenix.  He's defensively responsible, SUPER fast, young, and has pretty good size (6ft. 210 lbs.), and plays for a team that's not likely to push for a playoff spot.  He's having a breakout year this year after moderate success in the past.  This is the kind of under the radar move that could pay off huge in the future if the kid continues to develop upward.  Plus, you certainly wouldn't need to give Nyquist and a 1st for him. 

 

I don't know if this guy's the answer, but it's the kind of move I'd be looking at if I were Holland.  Let everyone else battle it out for E. Kane, Vanek, Moulson, etc. and we make a solid cap savy move that helps now and in the future.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#37 BadgerBob

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:53 PM

Following this line of though, one guy I've been interested in is Mikkel Boedker from Phoenix.  He's defensively responsible, SUPER fast, young, and has pretty good size (6ft. 210 lbs.), and plays for a team that's not likely to push for a playoff spot.  He's having a breakout year this year after moderate success in the past.  This is the kind of under the radar move that could pay off huge in the future if the kid continues to develop upward.  Plus, you certainly wouldn't need to give Nyquist and a 1st for him. 

 

Yes. This guy. I really like the Coyotes, even when we were in their conference.  I would love to have him on the Wings and it wouldn't break the bank in order to get him!



#38 Son of a Wing

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:42 PM

Love how it turned into a trade thread regardless.  :lol:

 

I think Richdg really really really wants to plan out the next 5 years of the franchise...lol


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#39 kipwinger

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

Love how it turned into a trade thread regardless.  :lol:

 

I think Richdg really really really wants to plan out the next 5 years of the franchise...lol

 

That's true, I did get a little carried away with the hypotheticals here.  I'm just super frustrated that nothing is being done to improve this team right now.  Better to fantasize I guess.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#40 Son of a Wing

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:53 PM

 

That's true, I did get a little carried away with the hypotheticals here.  I'm just super frustrated that nothing is being done to improve this team right now.  Better to fantasize I guess.

 

Totally understand.  I'm on capgeek daily...


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”






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