Turning point!?!?!

[Guest mjtm77]

Exactly what I was thinking. This team always has a glaring weakness in guys like Cleary and Tuzzi. if we sent them down and kept the likes of Jurco and Sheahan up, this team could compete with anyone in the league. Imagine this lineup with Dats and Alfie back with Tuzzi and Cleary not on board:

Nyquis-Dats-Z

Alfie-Helm-Franzen

Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar

Eaves-Glendening-Miller

Now that's a turning point for the DRW. When they ice the BEST lineup that they can.

IMO the best line up which won't happen because of restrictions and other management details would look more like this

Zetterberg Datsyuk franzen

Alfie Weiss Nyquist

Jurco helm Tatar

Abby Sheahan/ glendening miller.

Anyways that would be my line up. Pretty much a rockstar top 9. Allowing Abby to switch to a 2nd or 3rd line roll if more grit is needed. Anyways won't happen cause jurco, sheahan and glendenning will be sent down.

[Rivalred 630]

One game doesn't make up for 40+ others

[dat's sick 1,002]

IMO the best line up which won't happen because of restrictions and other management details would look more like this

Zetterberg Datsyuk franzen

Alfie Weiss Nyquist

Jurco helm Tatar

Abby Sheahan/ glendening miller.

Anyways that would be my line up. Pretty much a rockstar top 9. Allowing Abby to switch to a 2nd or 3rd line roll if more grit is needed. Anyways won't happen cause jurco, sheahan and glendenning will be sent down.

I'd really like to see us roll a Z-D-Mule line for an extended time. But it's hard to do that unless Weiss steps up as 2nd line C when he returns.

Lots of interesting ways to put this team together though. For example:

Franzen-Z-Nyquist

Jurco-Dats-Alfie

Abdelkader-Helm-Tatar

Miller-Sheahan-Glendening

That would be a very deep lineup with 3 lines that could really do some damage, and a 4th line that would be defensively responsible as well as potentially good at grinding out some goals.

What's really promising about our lineup going forward is that we several good 'blocks' to build with. Jurco-Shehan-Tatar? Chemistry. Nyquist-Tatar? Chemistry. Franzen and Nyquist. Dats and Z. Alfie and Helm. Possibly even Miller+Eaves+Glendening if last night is anything to go by. The only odd man out is Weiss. Ideally he and Franzen or Nyquist/Tatar would hit it off.

[SDavis35 140]

Exactly what I was thinking. This team always has a glaring weakness in guys like Cleary and Tuzzi. if we sent them down and kept the likes of Jurco and Sheahan up, this team could compete with anyone in the league. Imagine this lineup with Dats and Alfie back with Tuzzi and Cleary not on board:

Nyquis-Dats-Z

Alfie-Helm-Franzen

Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar

Eaves-Glendening-Miller

Now that's a turning point for the DRW. When they ice the BEST lineup that they can.

I get the Cleary hate... well kind of anyway, but what is wrong with having Bertuzzi as a big body? Keep him around for the rest of the year, he's not as detrimental as LGW makes him out to be. When the contract ends late June, let him retire as a Wing. Cleary should not come back and Samuelsson likely wont. In my opinion, our guys need to get stronger on the puck and learn how to finish. Then we'll be back near the top of division where we belong.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I get the Cleary hate... well kind of anyway, but what is wrong with having Bertuzzi as a big body? Keep him around for the rest of the year, he's not as detrimental as LGW makes him out to be. When the contract ends late June, let him retire as a Wing. Cleary should not come back and Samuelsson likely wont. In my opinion, our guys need to get stronger on the puck and learn how to finish. Then we'll be back near the top of division where we belong.

Bert doesn't back check for s***. He is very weak defensively because he doesn't work hard. When he is out with Z or Dats it doesn't show much but when he plays with Andersson or Sheahan it shows and they get pinned in the zone for long stretches.

[stillwater 186]

Only if we ride the Monster till he slumps and not try to 'get Howie going' experiment? We don't have much more time to do that, we've got to fight for a playoff spot. Get into the playoffs and if Gus falters, then go with Howie cuz by then, Howie will be awoken from his slumber.

I'm going to guess that you didn't actually watch the game last night.

Monster fought the puck all night ... it was like he couldn't even see it and had no idea where it was virtually all game long.

[FireCaptain 563]

I think the "turning point" discussion is a little premature. A couple solid games (even if they were losses) and a SO win doesn't somehow change the things that are fundamentally wrong with the team this season.

[unsaddleddonald 357]

One game doesn't make up for 40+ others

This.

I think the "turning point" discussion is a little premature. A couple solid games (even if they were losses) and a SO win doesn't somehow change the things that are fundamentally wrong with the team this season.

And this.

[kipwinger 8,496]

This.

And this.

You're right, one game doesn't mean it's a turning point. However, I think the actual turning point was right around the Winter Classic. We've lost 5 times since that game and won four. We beat REALLY good teams in Chicago and Los Angeles(twice), and played very well against the Rangers, Ducks, and Maple Leafs (all one goal games). We had two terrible games against San Jose and St. Louis. Additionally, since the WC Jimmy Howard seems to have regained (and hopefully not lost to injury again) his dominant form, and Tatar and Zetterberg have carried the team.

Add some combination of Dats, Franzen, Helm, or Alfie to any of those one goal games and we probably win a couple of them and our record could very easily be 6-3. Not too shabby when you consider that Chicago, LA, St. Louis, San Jose, and Anaheim are probably 5 of the top 7 or 8 teams in the league while Toronto and the Rangers are playoff teams as well.

People freak because all they see are the tight standings, but we're actually playing some pretty good hockey in spite of having a farm team.

Edited January 23, 2014 by kipwinger

[unsaddleddonald 357]

You're right, one game doesn't mean it's a turning point. However, I think the actual turning point was right around the Winter Classic. We've lost 5 times since that game and won four. We beat REALLY good teams in Chicago and Los Angeles(twice), and played very well against the Rangers, Ducks, and Maple Leafs (all one goal games). We had two terrible games against San Jose and St. Louis. Additionally, since the WC Jimmy Howard seems to have regained (and hopefully not lost to injury again) his dominant form, and Tatar and Zetterberg have carried the team.

Add some combination of Dats, Franzen, Helm, or Alfie to any of those one goal games and we probably win a couple of them and our record could very easily be 6-3. Not too shabby when you consider that Chicago, LA, St. Louis, San Jose, and Anaheim are probably 5 of the top 7 or 8 teams in the league while Toronto and the Rangers are playoff teams as well.

People freak because all they see are the tight standings, but we're actually playing some pretty good hockey in spite of having a farm team.

Fair points. And I agree that we have played well in January aside from the two games especially when you consider who isn't playing.

But to continue this "trending upwards" track, they need to win these next 2 games in my opinion. You can't be capable of playing like that against Chicago, then lose to Montreal and Florida. Montreal is a decent team, but they need to be beaten at The Joe.

Tomas Kopecky and friends need to stop, inexplicably, having our number. That doesn't make sense and is inexcusable.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Only if we ride the Monster till he slumps and not try to 'get Howie going' experiment? We don't have much more time to do that, we've got to fight for a playoff spot. Get into the playoffs and if Gus falters, then go with Howie cuz by then, Howie will be awoken from his slumber.

Uhh what are you smoking? Gus looked pretty bad last night especially compared to Howards play since the turn of the year. In 8 games hes played since New Years Howards GAA is 2.0. He cant be doing much more to help this team win right now. If the Wings were scoring 3+ goals a game in that time you could blame Howard but they average under 2 in that same time period. Remember this isnt 9-0 Gus from the beginning of the year that you put in because "hes getting wins". In his past 8 games hes only 4-4 with a GAA around 3.25 and most of those games were before the Wings offence was completely decimated with injury. Gus is down from his hot streak at the beginning of the year and is back more to how hes played over his career. If the Wings are relying on him to get them to the postseason then they are in bigger trouble than they are now with injuries. Babs has said it publicly that this team only goes as far as Jimmy takes them and hes correct in that.

As for this being a turning point? It could be. Only if the WIngs can somehow turn this into a good run before the Olympics. Theyve had chances for turning points already this year but have failed to bring them to anything.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I think we're definitely trending upwards. Seen some very positive things recently. Not just the Hawks game.

Some people want to focus on the failures from the first 40. I'm going to focus on the opportunities coming from the next 40.

I believe in these guys.

[dropkickshanahans 463]

I think we're definitely trending upwards. Seen some very positive things recently. Not just the Hawks game.

Some people want to focus on the failures from the first 40. I'm going to focus on the opportunities coming from the next 40.

I believe in these guys.

They have been much more consistent lately, Howard as well. Too bad he had another injury but hopefully it won't affect him when he gets back soon.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

IMO the best line up which won't happen because of restrictions and other management details would look more like this

Zetterberg Datsyuk franzen

Alfie Weiss Nyquist

Jurco helm Tatar

Abby Sheahan/ glendening miller.

Anyways that would be my line up. Pretty much a rockstar top 9. Allowing Abby to switch to a 2nd or 3rd line roll if more grit is needed. Anyways won't happen cause jurco, sheahan and glendenning will be sent down.

I guess once Weiss is healthy yes. I like that lineup.

I get the Cleary hate... well kind of anyway, but what is wrong with having Bertuzzi as a big body? Keep him around for the rest of the year, he's not as detrimental as LGW makes him out to be. When the contract ends late June, let him retire as a Wing. Cleary should not come back and Samuelsson likely wont. In my opinion, our guys need to get stronger on the puck and learn how to finish. Then we'll be back near the top of division where we belong.

Cause as much as I've always been a fan of Tuzzi, he's too slow and not producing worth a damn and his penalties are the s***s. If you can't keep up and all you do is hook guys then you're useless. Keep Sheahan and Jurco....they're big bodies that produce.

[joshy207 156]

The kids have a lot of talent, but kids by nature tend to be inconsistent. Part of that is a lack of experience of what it takes, part of it is that they tend to become frustrated easier, and part is a general lack of maturity. That's why we're seeing up and down efforts right now. They'll all get their chance.

Then you have Bertuzzi and Cleary. Bertuzzi looks like he's playing out the string, Cleary has the heart but not the body. Give Bertuzzi Cleary's effort and you have a pretty good player, but the way they are now they're just two broken pieces.

Cleary should be send down, or just plain decide to retire, but I doubt either of those happens. Bertuzzi and Samuelsson should also be sent down, but because of the 35+ rule I don't think it's possible because they wouldn't clear out the cap space to replace them.

The only way to get experience is to get experience. These prospects deserve more of a chance to show what they can do than the Wings tend to give them. Holland would rather "overbuild" his roster and try to get rid of a guy or two, than to leave a spot or two open and motivate a younger player to step up and make the NHL, even if for only a while. This lets the Wings know what they truly have coming up the pipeline and it lets the prospects see firsthand what they have to do to be successful at the top level. The way it is now, most of the younger guys have little to no NHL experience by the time they run out of waiver options. They're forced to sink or swim, but nobody told them how strong the current was...

Yes, there are a lot of young players in the lineup right now, most without much experience. But there are still a lot of veterans playing, too. The inconsistency is club-wide, not just the youth. Inconsistent and erratic is what this team is. It's been this way for the last 2 years.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Filppula Hudler Helm Abdelkader Dekeyser Lashoff and a bunch of others have come in and played over vets when they showed they were ready. For the most part once a fut proves, it he sticks. They will not, however, leave a spot open to give a kid a tryout, then send him down and have to find a plug later if he can't handle it. One, it can be bad for the kid's confidence and development, and two it's generally more expensive to fill a hole mid season than it is in the off season.

The disconnect is when fans think a kid is ready and when the coaches think he's ready. People wanted both Ericsson and Smith up earlier than they were and both struggled when they were full time NHL players a year later.

[Richdg 267]

No. One game, no matter how good a team looks doesn't matter. unless it is game 7 of course. A true turning point is going on a run. Win 7 of 8, 8 of 11 etc..... That is a turning point. Fact is we play Chicago tough and always have. In many ways we are mirror images of each other. Good skating skilled teams that are not physical. Let's not over look the "over looking" factor. Most teams are not scared by us anymore. That can be a good/bad thing.

[Nevermind 363]

Here's how I look at it up front. We can only have 14 forwards until the 23-man roster limit is lifted. Let's say, miraculously, we're completely healthy. Take the actual lines with a grain of salt.

Zetterberg--Datsyuk--Abdelkader

Franzen--Helm--Alfredsson

Nyquist--Weiss--Tatar

Miller--Andersson--Cleary

Scratches: Bertuzzi and Samuelsson

Sent down just because they can be, even though they don't deserve to be (thanks to Sammy, Kenny!): Eaves, Glendening, Sheahan and Jurco

I don't think we'll ever be totally healthy, so at least one of Eaves, Glendening, etc. will be up. But when the 23-man roster limit is lifted (after the trade deadline I believe), I think they'll definitely challenge for 4th line spots and possibly play their way into the lineup that way. Of course, Weiss' play after injury is a huge question mark as well.

[kipwinger 8,496]

Legit question here for the forum. How does the roster expansion work after the trade deadline? I mean, how do the rules work to ensure that there is no cap circumvention? I legitimately don't know the nuts and bolts of this one.

[shoe 165]

Win at least 3 games in a row by more than a goal in 2 of them and I'll call it a turning point.

We have seen them loose we have seen them win but when was the last time they WON? You know up by a goal in the 2nd not letting the other team come back in the 3rd no OT no shootout just a plain old big win. Would really like to see that happen with Montreal tonight.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Legit question here for the forum. How does the roster expansion work after the trade deadline? I mean, how do the rules work to ensure that there is no cap circumvention? I legitimately don't know the nuts and bolts of this one.

You can add as many players as you can fit under the cap. For the playoffs, there is no cap I think

[kipwinger 8,496]

You can add as many players as you can fit under the cap. For the playoffs, there is no cap I think

Aha, so barring an injury to a player who makes a decent amount of money the Wings would be able to add nobody because we're up against the cap?

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Aha, so barring an injury to a player who makes a decent amount of money the Wings would be able to add nobody because we're up against the cap?

Correct as far as the period from the trade deadline to the end of the regular season. Players are only paid for the regular season, so once teams get to the playoffs the salary cap no longer applies either.

[kipwinger 8,496]

Cool, thanks for the info fellas.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

You can add as many players as you can fit under the cap. For the playoffs, there is no cap I think

Ya no cap and roster restriction are why you saw players like Helm and Abs feature in the playoffs quite a bit long before they were regulars on the roster during the season.