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wings87

Babcock's comments on playing time

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Vets are guys who have been in the league for awhile, not guys who are over 30. Abdelkader ahsn't earned that much ice time. Glendening, Miller, and Eaves shouldn't have played as much at he expense of the kid line. Cleary sure as hell shouldn't have been on the ice that much. Not only that, but the "well they're not rookies and earned their ice time" flies in the face of what Babcock said. That line was the best. I didn't expect them to play 18 minutes, but they sure as hell should have been second in terms of TOI.

Abdelkader, Miller, Glendening and Eaves were literally our best defensive forwards playing last game. It's not all about creating offensive chances. It's about limiting defensive chances just as much.

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Abby plays top line all the time. Does that mean he's held in higher regard than Alfie?? No. It's about roles and spreading out the scoring between three lines.

So is it making him earn his spot or spreading the scoring around? I can't keep track. All just the same Babcock media lip service. Playing Bert and Cleary over Tatar was stupid from day one and that's been painfully apparent to everyone except Babcock for quite some time.

esteef

Mitchmac33 and unsaddleddonald like this

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So is it making him earn his spot or spreading the scoring around? I can't keep track. All just the same Babcock media lip service. Playing Bert and Cleary over Tatar was stupid from day one and that's been painfully apparent to everyone except Babcock for quite some time.

esteef

Yup could be earning the spot or spreading the scoring around or injuries or line matchups, or linemates and chemistry or stupid things he said to the press last year or he's struggling with his father's health/death.

Frankly I would believe any one of those before I believe Babcock would irrationally hate a player and possibly put that before his team.

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Yup could be earning the spot or spreading the scoring around or injuries or line matchups, or linemates and chemistry or stupid things he said to the press last year or he's struggling with his father's health/death.

Frankly I would believe any one of those before I believe Babcock would irrationally hate a player and possibly put that before his team.

Sorta like irrationally loving a player(s) and possibly putting that before his team?

esteef

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I think people are too easily dismissing just how inexperienced these kids are. When a rookie plays well at 14 minutes, that does not necessarily mean he will play even better at 19+ minutes. You have to consider the lines matchups and their defensive responsibilities.

Part of the reason for relying on the vets is not just nostalgia. They've got years of experience that have led to better defensive and coverage instincts. The fact is they're more trustworthy shift after shift on a given night. That's not to say the young guys are bad in any way, just inexperienced. Babcock values players who won't screw up and cost the team goals, even when they're not producing much.

With this many young guys in the lineup it's about finding the right balance. It's not as simple as "he scored playing 14 minutes so he should get 19 minutes and score more."

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Abdelkader, Miller, Glendening and Eaves were literally our best defensive forwards playing last game. It's not all about creating offensive chances. It's about limiting defensive chances just as much.

Is that why Eaves blew his coverage on one of the goals? And Abdelkader is average defensively. Also, when you have the puck as much as the kid line did, you're being a lot more effective in keeping the other team off the board than you are chasing them around your end playing defense.

I'm not one of the people who thinks that anyone who doesn't score 20 goals is a waste of a roster space, but this isn't the Grind Line out there. They shouldn't be taking that many shifts at even strength, especially not at the expense of the line that scored 2 of your goals and generated 11 of your 30 shots on goal.

Tatar has more points than Cleary and Bertuzzi combined. Are we still talking about Babcock's comments?

esteef

Tie goes to the vet, and Cleary and Bert are thick guys. They've gotten the cheese and are going hard, blah blah blah.

I've always defended Babcock, but come on coach, come up with some new cliches.

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Heres my predicament, does cleary actually add any value on the ice? Does tatar? Does bertuzzi? I really dont agree with those who say one is too young and will create more mistakes, not be reliably defensively, etc. Many other teams bring their rookies up in a pace to suceed, yet the wings look to bring players up and hope they succeed no matter where they are placed

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Right because what coach would make a young player fight through some adversity and actually earn his spot.

It's as if our coach knows a bit about psychology....weird...

Tatar got less ice time than Cleary, Miller and Glendening. He is clearly better than all of them. This happens consistently. He's clearly not given the ice time he has earned. I'm afraid we have another Hudler situation here, which will end badly because unlike Hudler, Tatar knows he's good and has a temper/attitude to match.

esteef likes this

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Tatar has more points than Cleary and Bertuzzi combined. Are we still talking about Babcock's comments?

esteef

AT this point Tatar is just a boy and is learning the game, on and off the ice, from the the vets like Cleary and Bertuzzi who have been around and through the adversity that Tatar is facing. Tatar is paying his due's like most other have to. Sit back down in your arm chair and relax a bit, let the Pro's do their thing.

Tatar got less ice time than Cleary, Miller and Glendening. He is clearly better than all of them. This happens consistently. He's clearly not given the ice time he has earned. I'm afraid we have another Hudler situation here, which will end badly because unlike Hudler, Tatar knows he's good and has a temper/attitude to match.

Tatar brings way more to the table of what we need then Hudler did or ever would. We had too many player that provided what Hudler did and not enough players that provided what Hudler did not. Tatar has more grit under his nails then Hulder will ever have in his whole life. Hudler was given his chances to create a new role for himself and never could seize that opportunity... My bet is Tatar will.

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Huh? If anything Babcock is partially responsible for the player he has become because he has made him earn his ice-time.

As it should be with all young players.

Babcock is responsible for icing inferior lineups in the beginning of the season by sitting Tatar and playing Cleary.

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This is just like every other Babcock cliche. It's not saying much to say "the best players will play" when there's no competition for jobs at the moment. Bring Dats, Z, and Weiss back and there will be, and I'd be amazed if "the best player played".

He might as well say, "the best player (who can effectively alleviate cap constraints) will play". Which is no different than two months ago when Tootoo and Eaves were waived.

Talk is cheap. It's time for Holland and Babs to actually DO SOMETHING to prove that "the best players will play". And that doesn't mean waiving Sammy either.

Mitchmac33 likes this

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This is just like every other Babcock cliche. It's not saying much to say "the best players will play" when there's no competition for jobs at the moment. Bring Dats, Z, and Weiss back and there will be, and I'd be amazed if "the best player played".

He might as well say, "the best player (who can effectively alleviate cap constraints) will play". Which is no different than two months ago when Tootoo and Eaves were waived.

Talk is cheap. It's time for Holland and Babs to actually DO SOMETHING to prove that "the best players will play". And that doesn't mean waiving Sammy either.

Well, the blame is passed from one to the other in different circumstances.

It is on Babcock when he can pick and choose who he wants to play and he picks incorrectly.

It is on Holland when everyone is healthy, and we have to send down guys who make the team better because he kept signing a bunch of guys we didn't need.

F.Michael likes this

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Well, the blame is passed from one to the other in different circumstances.

It is on Babcock when he can pick and choose who he wants to play and he picks incorrectly.

It is on Holland when everyone is healthy, and we have to send down guys who make the team better because he kept signing a bunch of guys we didn't need.

I agree with your point, however I'm not particularly interested in "blaming" anyone. It's not therapeutic for me to point fingers. The roster could have been managed better, and the coaching could be better, but immaterial right now. We've got a team that could (and should) go on a run down the stretch. There's no reason for this team to miss the playoffs. Add a puck mover to the second pair (moving Smith to the third and Kindl off the team for good) and a scoring winger with some size and there's no reason we shouldn't compete for the Cup.

But to do so requires that tough decisions be made. Moving the right combination of vets, prospects, young guys, and picks. How deftly Holland does that will say a lot more about his talent than all the FA singings in the world. Likewise, how well Babs can coach a young team that doesn't coach itself (like he's had since he joined the organization) will say a lot about his talent as well.

unsaddleddonald likes this

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In response to Babs' comment, I think this quote is quite appropriate. (Read in a bad Irish accent for the full effect)

"I'll believe ya when me s*** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet"

BadgerBob likes this

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If you base it on a few months or a few weeks ago, I think you'd have to be a bit skeptical , understandably so. But Sammy is on waivers, Bert sat out and Cleary was scratched. Not sure what else you can ask for. The kids played quite a bit yesterday and with good reason. All these guys have been bringin' it night after night. At the beginning of the season, we really didn't know what we had with these guys. Now we know. Mike Babcock wants to win above all else.

I'm sure that Babs wants to win, but what does Holland want? While I definitely believe Kenny wants to win I'm just not sure he'll do what it takes. Which will include trading or waiving some of his veterans. And if he's not willing to move the veterans I would even go as far as to say Kenny should be willing to move some kids and picks for a top pairing D and or a top six forward.

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I'm sure that Babs wants to win, but what does Holland want? While I definitely believe Kenny wants to win I'm just not sure he'll do what it takes. Which will include trading or waiving some of his veterans. And if he's not willing to move the veterans I would even go as far as to say Kenny should be willing to move some kids and picks for a top pairing D and or a top six forward.

Coaches are more focused on today. GMs tend to take a longer view* and put more consideration into the future that coaches. Both want to win.

*Unless you're Paul Holmgren, then you make whatever move pops into your head at that exact second.

Edited by DickieDunn
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Vets are guys who have been in the league for awhile, not guys who are over 30. Abdelkader ahsn't earned that much ice time. Glendening, Miller, and Eaves shouldn't have played as much at he expense of the kid line. Cleary sure as hell shouldn't have been on the ice that much. Not only that, but the "well they're not rookies and earned their ice time" flies in the face of what Babcock said. That line was the best. I didn't expect them to play 18 minutes, but they sure as hell should have been second in terms of TOI.

Abdelkader has been awesome this year. Sure he could bury some more of his chances, but he's got some goals, a decent number of assists, but the thing he does that's most valuable is he forechecks like a pitbull. Numerous goals have been scored because of his forecheck and puck retrieval. That's why Dats and Z love playing with him. He does the grunt work and makes his linemates lives easier.

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