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Babcock's comments on playing time


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#21 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:16 PM

Tatar is good in spite of babcock.

esteef

 

Right because what coach would make a young player fight through some adversity and actually earn his spot.

 

It's as if our coach knows a bit about psychology....weird...


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#22 esteef

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:18 PM

 
Right because what coach would make a young player fight through some adversity and actually earn his spot.
 
It's as if our coach knows a bit about psychology....weird...


Like how Jurco went straight to the top lines over a proven Tatar? Like that? Babcock hates Tatar.

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#23 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:20 PM

Like how Jurco went straight to the top lines over a proven Tatar? Like that? Babcock hates Tatar.

esteef

 

Abby plays top line all the time.  Does that mean he's held in higher regard than Alfie?? No.  It's about roles and spreading out the scoring between three lines.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#24 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:36 PM

TOI:Totat/PP/PK
Alfredsson 19:44/4:07/0
Franzen 16:45/4:07/0:14
Helm 20:10/0/3:47
Cleary 15:48/0/2:34
Abdelkader 16:53/4:23/0
Nyquist 16:23/3:44/0
Tatar 14:08/3:14/0
Sheahan 13:48/3:14/0
Jurco 12:17/3:21/0
Glendening 14:29 /0/3:49
Miller 15:16/04:04
Eaves 12:01/2:00/0:44
 
Cleary played almost 2 1/2 minutes more at even strength.  Miller played more at ES.  Abdelkader has no business playing that much on the PP.
 
If the best players play, Tatar, Sheahan, and Jurco should have had at least a couple more minutes


I didn't include anyone under 30 in the vet column. Plus they aren't rookies and have earned ice time, Cleary aside

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#25 DickieDunn

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:45 PM

I didn't include anyone under 30 in the vet column. Plus they aren't rookies and have earned ice time, Cleary aside

Vets are guys who have been in the league for awhile, not guys who are over 30.  Abdelkader ahsn't earned that much ice time.  Glendening, Miller, and Eaves shouldn't have played as much at he expense of the kid line.  Cleary sure as hell shouldn't have been on the ice that much.  Not only that, but the "well they're not rookies and earned their ice time" flies in the face of what Babcock said.  That line was the best.  I didn't expect them to play 18 minutes, but they sure as hell should have been second in terms of TOI.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#26 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:58 PM

Vets are guys who have been in the league for awhile, not guys who are over 30.  Abdelkader ahsn't earned that much ice time.  Glendening, Miller, and Eaves shouldn't have played as much at he expense of the kid line.  Cleary sure as hell shouldn't have been on the ice that much.  Not only that, but the "well they're not rookies and earned their ice time" flies in the face of what Babcock said.  That line was the best.  I didn't expect them to play 18 minutes, but they sure as hell should have been second in terms of TOI.

 

Abdelkader, Miller, Glendening and Eaves were literally our best defensive forwards playing last game.  It's not all about creating offensive chances.  It's about limiting defensive chances just as much.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#27 esteef

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:59 PM

 

Abby plays top line all the time.  Does that mean he's held in higher regard than Alfie?? No.  It's about roles and spreading out the scoring between three lines.

 

So is it making him earn his spot or spreading the scoring around?  I can't keep track.  All just the same Babcock media lip service.  Playing Bert and Cleary over Tatar was stupid from day one and that's been painfully apparent to everyone except Babcock for quite some time.

 

esteef


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#28 Son of a Wing

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:14 AM

 

So is it making him earn his spot or spreading the scoring around?  I can't keep track.  All just the same Babcock media lip service.  Playing Bert and Cleary over Tatar was stupid from day one and that's been painfully apparent to everyone except Babcock for quite some time.

 

esteef

 

Yup could be earning the spot or spreading the scoring around or injuries or line matchups, or linemates and chemistry or stupid things he said to the press last year or he's struggling with his father's health/death.

 

Frankly I would believe any one of those before I believe Babcock would irrationally hate a player and possibly put that before his team.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi

 

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”


#29 esteef

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:15 AM

 
Yup could be earning the spot or spreading the scoring around or injuries or line matchups, or linemates and chemistry or stupid things he said to the press last year or he's struggling with his father's health/death.
 
Frankly I would believe any one of those before I believe Babcock would irrationally hate a player and possibly put that before his team.


Sorta like irrationally loving a player(s) and possibly putting that before his team?

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#30 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:29 AM

I think people are too easily dismissing just how inexperienced these kids are.  When a rookie plays well at 14 minutes, that does not necessarily mean he will play even better at 19+ minutes.  You have to consider the lines matchups and their defensive responsibilities.

 

Part of the reason for relying on the vets is not just nostalgia.  They've got years of experience that have led to better defensive and coverage instincts.  The fact is they're more trustworthy shift after shift on a given night.  That's not to say the young guys are bad in any way, just inexperienced.  Babcock values players who won't screw up and cost the team goals, even when they're not producing much. 

 

With this many young guys in the lineup it's about finding the right balance. It's not as simple as "he scored playing 14 minutes so he should get 19 minutes and score more."



#31 esteef

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:31 AM

Tatar has more points than Cleary and Bertuzzi combined.  Are we still talking about Babcock's comments?

 

esteef


"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#32 DickieDunn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:52 AM

 

Abdelkader, Miller, Glendening and Eaves were literally our best defensive forwards playing last game.  It's not all about creating offensive chances.  It's about limiting defensive chances just as much.

 

Is that why Eaves blew his coverage on one of the goals?  And Abdelkader is average defensively.  Also, when you have the puck as much as the kid line did, you're being a lot more effective in keeping the other team off the board than you are chasing them around your end playing defense.

 

I'm not one of the people who thinks that anyone who doesn't score 20 goals is a waste of a roster space, but this isn't the Grind Line out there.  They shouldn't be taking that many shifts at even strength, especially not at the expense of the line that scored 2 of your goals and generated 11 of your 30 shots on goal.


Tatar has more points than Cleary and Bertuzzi combined.  Are we still talking about Babcock's comments?

 

esteef

 

Tie goes to the vet, and Cleary and Bert are thick guys.  They've gotten the cheese and are going hard, blah blah blah.

 

I've always defended Babcock, but come on coach, come up with some new cliches.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#33 cnot19

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:00 AM

Heres my predicament, does cleary actually add any value on the ice? Does tatar? Does bertuzzi? I really dont agree with those who say one is too young and will create more mistakes, not be reliably defensively, etc. Many other teams bring their rookies up in a pace to suceed, yet the wings look to bring players up and hope they succeed no matter where they are placed


Get me a real fourth line Kenny!

#34 VM1138

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:45 AM

 
Right because what coach would make a young player fight through some adversity and actually earn his spot.
 
It's as if our coach knows a bit about psychology....weird...


Tatar got less ice time than Cleary, Miller and Glendening. He is clearly better than all of them. This happens consistently. He's clearly not given the ice time he has earned. I'm afraid we have another Hudler situation here, which will end badly because unlike Hudler, Tatar knows he's good and has a temper/attitude to match.
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#35 The Secret

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:01 AM

Tatar has more points than Cleary and Bertuzzi combined.  Are we still talking about Babcock's comments?

 

esteef

 

AT this point Tatar is just a boy and is learning the game, on and off the ice, from the the vets like Cleary and Bertuzzi who have been around and through the adversity that Tatar is facing. Tatar is paying his due's like most other have to. Sit back down in your arm chair and relax a bit, let the Pro's do their thing.


Tatar got less ice time than Cleary, Miller and Glendening. He is clearly better than all of them. This happens consistently. He's clearly not given the ice time he has earned. I'm afraid we have another Hudler situation here, which will end badly because unlike Hudler, Tatar knows he's good and has a temper/attitude to match.

 

Tatar brings way more to the table of what we need then Hudler did or ever would. We had too many player that provided what Hudler did and not enough players that provided what Hudler did not. Tatar has more grit under his nails then Hulder will ever have in his whole life. Hudler was given his chances to create a new role for himself and never could seize that opportunity... My bet is Tatar will.



#36 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

 

Huh? If anything Babcock is partially responsible for the player he has become because he has made him earn his ice-time.  

 

As it should be with all young players.

 

Babcock is responsible for icing inferior lineups in the beginning of the season by sitting Tatar and playing Cleary.



#37 kipwinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:07 AM

This is just like every other Babcock cliche.  It's not saying much to say "the best players will play" when there's no competition for jobs at the moment.  Bring Dats, Z, and Weiss back and there will be, and I'd be amazed if "the best player played". 

 

He might as well say, "the best player (who can effectively alleviate cap constraints) will play".  Which is no different than two months ago when Tootoo and Eaves were waived. 

 

Talk is cheap.  It's time for Holland and Babs to actually DO SOMETHING to prove that "the best players will play".  And that doesn't mean waiving Sammy either.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#38 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:11 AM

This is just like every other Babcock cliche.  It's not saying much to say "the best players will play" when there's no competition for jobs at the moment.  Bring Dats, Z, and Weiss back and there will be, and I'd be amazed if "the best player played". 

 

He might as well say, "the best player (who can effectively alleviate cap constraints) will play".  Which is no different than two months ago when Tootoo and Eaves were waived. 

 

Talk is cheap.  It's time for Holland and Babs to actually DO SOMETHING to prove that "the best players will play".  And that doesn't mean waiving Sammy either.

 

Well, the blame is passed from one to the other in different circumstances.

 

It is on Babcock when he can pick and choose who he wants to play and he picks incorrectly.

 

It is on Holland when everyone is healthy, and we have to send down guys who make the team better because he kept signing a bunch of guys we didn't need. 



#39 kipwinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:22 AM

 

Well, the blame is passed from one to the other in different circumstances.

 

It is on Babcock when he can pick and choose who he wants to play and he picks incorrectly.

 

It is on Holland when everyone is healthy, and we have to send down guys who make the team better because he kept signing a bunch of guys we didn't need. 

 

I agree with your point, however I'm not particularly interested in "blaming" anyone.  It's not therapeutic for me to point fingers.  The roster could have been managed better, and the coaching could be better, but immaterial right now.  We've got a team that could (and should) go on a run down the stretch.  There's no reason for this team to miss the playoffs.  Add a puck mover to the second pair (moving Smith to the third and Kindl off the team for good) and a scoring winger with some size and there's no reason we shouldn't compete for the Cup.

 

But to do so requires that tough decisions be made.  Moving the right combination of vets, prospects, young guys, and picks.  How deftly Holland does that will say a lot more about his talent than all the FA singings in the world.  Likewise, how well Babs can coach a young team that doesn't coach itself (like he's had since he joined the organization) will say a lot about his talent as well. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#40 ogreslayer

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:51 AM

In response to Babs' comment, I think this quote is quite appropriate.  (Read in a bad Irish accent for the full effect)

 

"I'll believe ya when me s*** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet"


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