Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

[kipwinger 8,522]

take this for what its worth. Just talked to my buddy who plays drop in hockey with a Wings trainer and according to him, Kindl and Smith are being shopped... Don't know for what, but with Z going down our needs have become very apparent. With that being said, if Z is out for the season, it'll open up some cap space for a deadline rental...

Not Smith, noooooooooooooooooooo! He occasionally punches people between turning the puck over and blowing zone coverage. He's untouchable.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Not Smith, noooooooooooooooooooo! He occasionally punches people between turning the puck over and blowing zone coverage. He's untouchable.

I saw your name as the last poster in this subject and though for sure you came in here to say our target should be Oshie.

Smith is good without Q. I love the B's, but if it means getting Q off the team, I hope they still want him and we get even a 3rd/4th round pick for him. And then Smith - DeKeyser can become a reality.

[kipwinger 8,522]

I saw your name as the last poster in this subject and though for sure you came in here to say our target should be Oshie.

Smith is good without Q. I love the B's, but if it means getting Q off the team, I hope they still want him and we get even a 3rd/4th round pick for him. And then Smith - DeKeyser can become a reality.

I genuinely thought about saying we should target Oshie, but I thought it would be overboard considering I've pumped his tires in two other threads. But don't think I didn't consider it.

[joesuffP 1,746]

If we can flip Smith and Kindl for a real top 4 I'm for it. But who would want 2 bad defensemen for 1 good one makes no sense. I guess the deal would just be for some lame picks or something. There will be a log jam at Defense with players from GR deserving a shot

I'd resign Quincey if he'd take a pay cut. Trying to replace him with someone from GR makes us worse and this Defense can't get any worse. Have to do something to get this blue line trending in the right direction

Edited February 15, 2014 by joesuffP

[LeftWinger 4,953]

like I've said before, if Boston wants Q, I am asking for Joe Morrow in return. The B's may not do it, but that is my asking price.

I still turn K over along with Almqvist for the best possible return. If I need to throw in our 1st to get it, I will...

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

like I've said before, if Boston wants Q, I am asking for Joe Morrow in return. The B's may not do it, but that is my asking price.

I still turn K over along with Almqvist for the best possible return. If I need to throw in our 1st to get it, I will...

That doesn't get you much. Quincey is a UFA and sucks, Almqvist has proven nothing, as is his value and the 1st is middle of the pack for now and might be a late pick depending on how the Wings finish.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

like I've said before, if Boston wants Q, I am asking for Joe Morrow in return. The B's may not do it, but that is my asking price.

I still turn K over along with Almqvist for the best possible return. If I need to throw in our 1st to get it, I will...

And after the Boston GM is done laughing at you, he'll tell you he'll give you a 4th round pick for Quincey.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

And after the Boston GM is done laughing at you, he'll tell you he'll give you a 4th round pick for Quincey.

Agreed, which I would gladly take.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Agreed, which I would gladly take.

Me too. He's not going to be back next year, and Marchenko can't be a whole lot worse.

[Dabura 12,207]

Y'know who's pretty good? Brendan Smith...'s younger brother. Last I checked, he's on pace for around 25 goals. And he's only 22 years old.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Y'know who's pretty good? Brendan Smith...'s younger brother. Last I checked, he's on pace for around 25 goals. And he's only 22 years old.

I would love to get him, but Boston has him thriving there and there's no way in hell they let him go. Though if they actually wanted Q, then add in a good prospect in the Pulkkinen variety maybe and then our 1st or 2nd rounder, maybe Boston would bite on that. And then our 3rd line is Abs-Helm-Smith and my heart explodes from excitement.

[Dabura 12,207]

I would love to get him, but Boston has him thriving there and there's no way in hell they let him go. Though if they actually wanted Q, then add in a good prospect in the Pulkkinen variety maybe and then our 1st or 2nd rounder, maybe Boston would bite on that. And then our 3rd line is Abs-Helm-Smith and my heart explodes from excitement.

Or we could just play Brendan on the wing and refer to him as "Reilly."

BABCOCK: Hey, that puck's gotta go deep, Reilly!

B. SMITH: I'm not my brother!

BABCOCK: I've noticed!

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Or we could just play Brendan on the wing and refer to him as "Reilly."

BABCOCK: Hey, that puck's gotta go deep, Reilly!

B. SMITH: I'm not my brother!

BABCOCK: I've noticed!

[kipwinger 8,522]

Or we could just play Brendan on the wing and refer to him as "Reilly."

BABCOCK: Hey, that puck's gotta go deep, Reilly!

B. SMITH: I'm not my brother!

BABCOCK: I've noticed!

This is your best post. Your all time best post.

[Dabura 12,207]

How do we feel about Darren Helm?

OK, stupid question. Let me rephrase it:

Do we still consider Darren Helm untouchable?

I was thinking of ways we might get Edler. I thought about the sorry state of the Canucks. How Torts thinks the team looks old and slow and crappy. How they want a quality center. How they might be looking at a rebuild/retool. And I realized they'd probably love to have Darren Helm. And I realized every team would probably love to have Darren Helm. What do you suppose his trade value might be? Obviously it would differ from team to team, but y'know what I'm saying. Maybe use Edler as a general measure? Helm + [?] (+ [?]₂) = Edler.

Note: It's not that I necessarily want to trade Helm. Or that even if I did, I'd feel really, really good about it. No. I just feel like this whole if-you-want-to-acquire-a-really-good-roster-player-you're-probably-going-to-have-to-give-up-a-really-good-roster-player thing really does not look favorably upon us, so any good roster player we have who we might be willing to part with...that player might very well be what gets That Big Trade done for us. Anyone can offer picks. Anyone can offer good prospects. Not everyone can offer Darren Helm.

[Dabura 12,207]

I guess it doesn't make any sense to even consider moving Helm until we have a better idea of what we really have in Weiss. But let's assume Weiss pans out.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Dabura

[kipwinger 8,522]

I guess it doesn't make any sense to even consider moving Helm until we have a better idea of what we really have in Weiss. But let's assume Weiss clicks and makes us all happy.

You still don't move Helm. I do not feel comfortable moving forward with Dats, Weiss, Andersson, and Glendening as our centers. Any injury to the top two means you've got guys in way over their heads. And truth is, we need centers worse than defensemen. Hypothetically, if we made zero moves we'd be much better on defense three years from now and much worse at center. Moving a center for a top four d-man just fills one hole by creating another.

[Dabura 12,207]

You still don't move Helm. I do not feel comfortable moving forward with Dats, Weiss, Andersson, and Glendening as our centers. Any injury to the top two means you've got guys in way over their heads. And truth is, we need centers worse than defensemen. Hypothetically, if we made zero moves we'd be much better on defense three years from now and much worse at center. Moving a center for a top four d-man just fills one hole by creating another.

What about Sheahan? Datsyuk, Zetterberg/Weiss, Weiss/Sheahan, Sheahan/Andersson/Glendening/Ott? And, I mean, it's not like we have absolutely no idea if we can win anything without Helm and with a weak-link second-line center. Look at what we did last season, in the playoffs. Helm wasn't even playing, Flip had already checked out, Andersson was centering Nyquist and Brunner ...and we knocked off the Ducks and took the Blackhawks to a Game 7 OT. And that Andersson line? It was actually pretty good. And all that was without Sheahan, who's already making a case that he can be about as good as Helm defensively and even better offensively. Bottom line: I think we could bear the loss of our third-line center if it means getting a very good top-four defenseman. (Assuming Weiss pans out.)

As for the future of our blue line - it looks bright, but I'm not really keen on the idea that if we just wait three years we'll have an awesome blue line. We don't know if Smith is ever going to pan out. Kronwall's our one big gun on the blue line and he's into his 30s. Ericsson is likely the best he's ever going to be right now (defensemen tend to peak at around 28. He's 29.) Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko - maybe one or two or even all three of them pan out, but, even then, I wouldn't expect any of them to be guys we can really truly lean on three years from now. And, again, that's with Kronwall and Ericsson in decline. And that's waiting three whole years! For kids! And, plus, if we're going to look to the future, we could argue that Jarnkrok should be at least a third-line center three years from now.

Again, I'm not necessarily keen on trading Helm. This is largely just me arguing for the sake of arguing, or, to put it euphemistically, "playing devil's advocate." And yet, like you've said many times, kip: to get something good, we're going to have to give up something good. The issue there, of course, is that most if not all of our really good roster players are totally untouchable. Datsyuk won't be moved. Zetterberg won't be moved. Franzen very likely won't be moved. Nyquist won't be moved. Tatar very likely won't be moved. Weiss won't be moved unless he absolutely bombs, at full-strength (i.e. while not battling an inury) - and even then, it'd be a very short list of GMs who might be willing to take him on. (Needless to say, we probably wouldn't be getting a top-six forward or top-four defenseman in return.) That's pretty much our entire top six. On the back end, Kronwall is a Wing for life, Ericsson wants to be a Wing for life, DeKeyser chose the Wings over every other team, and I don't imagine Smith's trade value is very high right now. All of which is to say: if we're really serious about a big trade target, and that target's GM is really serious about getting at least one key roster player in return...doesn't that key roster player sort of have to be Darren Helm?

[Dabura 12,207]

wrong thread

Edited February 16, 2014 by Dabura

[RyanBarnes! 293]

There is not much of interest to be had at deadline. Might as well do nothing.

[Richdg 267]

dabura and kip, could we trade helm? yes. it all depends on the who is coming back. Helm is a great guy, checker, and skater. But TBH we have 10 guys that fit that description, none of which have the trade value he does. To get you have to give. We need guys that can put the puck into the net up front, and a partner for Dekeyser on the blueline. If I am getting a proven 30 goal scorer or top 4 Dman for Helm+, then yes move him.

[kipwinger 8,522]

dabura and kip, could we trade helm? yes. it all depends on the who is coming back. Helm is a great guy, checker, and skater. But TBH we have 10 guys that fit that description, none of which have the trade value he does. To get you have to give. We need guys that can put the puck into the net up front, and a partner for Dekeyser on the blueline. If I am getting a proven 30 goal scorer or top 4 Dman for Helm+, then yes move him.

Well sure, hypothetically anyone could be had for the right price (minus Dats and Z). But since teams aren't likely to trade away goal scoring wingers or top pairing d-men for checkers I'd say it doesn't matter. Helm wouldn't bring you a piece like that as the centerpiece of a package. To get a top four d-man or top six winger you've got to give the same thing. Look at the trades for Nash, Carter, Gaborik, Heatley, (all proven 30 goal scorers). All of them went for other top sixers or top pairing d-men straight up or as center pieces of packages. If I'm giving up a top sixer or a top four d-man I'm not ALSO giving up my best bottom sixer unless I'm getting a total stud.

So...Helm + Nyquist +1st (2014) + 1st (2015) for Ovechkin...sure.

Helm + Nyquist + 1st for Vanek...no thanks. (And Helm + 1st doesn't land you a proven goal scorer in this league).

Edited February 16, 2014 by kipwinger

[PumpkinEscobar 136]

You'd have to put together a Lindros package to get someone like Ovechkin

[kipwinger 8,522]

You'd have to put together a Lindros package to get someone like Ovechkin

That's my point. Helm in that kind of a package I'm ok with. Helm in a package for a Vanek or Moulson type...no thanks.

[Richdg 267]

kip, I agree on the no rentals thing. we don't have enough tradable pieces to waste any on rentals.