Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

[wings87 1,290]

So you're talking a Bobby Ryan type deal or a lesser version of that or what?

Any way you look at it, if you have a proven roster player coming back with term and value then your going to give up a valuable roster player and/or top prospect and/or high draft pick.

And I would have no problem trading a roster player/plus. My thought is that with the way this team has looked, other then several players should we even have untouchables?

The problem is that whether any team would be willing to trade anyone decent if a guy like Abby were included plus picks/prospects?.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Wish we could pry Boyle out of SJ

Boyle is 37, but maybe he has a couple of season's left in him still. Definitely a Holland type of move. I would not give up Smith for him though. Edited February 26, 2014 by RyanBarnes!

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

And I would have no problem trading a roster player/plus. My thought is that with the way this team has looked, other then several players should we even have untouchables?

The problem is that whether any team would be willing to trade anyone decent if a guy like Abby were included plus picks/prospects?.

That's fair. As far as untouchables go, aside from Dats, Z and Kronner and NTCs, I think Holland would move anyone if the right deal presented itself.

[wings87 1,290]

I disagree with the premise that the Wings overvalue their prospects. Not trading prospects and not following through with some of the trade suggestions that fans make-some of which are completely off the wall, doesn't mean that they're overvaluing their prospects. It means that they place good value on them, and won't make a move just to make a move. They have a lot better handle on what they can be reasonably be expected to do than anyone outside of the organization, and generally keep the guys that turn into good players and the guys they move usually don't turn into anything special. Between the salary cap situation and a limited number of top players being moved compared to what it was like before the cap, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go over the top of some of the trades that are made, and a lot of fans tend to overvalue what the Wings have to trade anyway.

I'll use the Bobby Ryan trade as an example. I saw a lot of people saying that a package of Nyquist, Ouellet or Kindl, and a first would have been the same as Silfverberg and Noesen and a first. Not so. Silfverberg is bigger and younger than Nyquist, who at that point had just had a good career at Maine and a so-so NHL debut, and was a higher draft pick. Noesen was also bigger, younger, and projects to be as good or better than Ouellet, and is younger and potentially better than Kindl. In order to have gotten Ryan, Holland would have had to add value, and that's assuming the Ducks weren't set on getting SIlfverberg to the point of not wanting anyone the Wing had.

I don't think it's just a Red Wing issue, most teams in every sport overvalue their prospects. I think it has a lot to do with hoping young players become good so that the organization can save on salary instead of getting proven players and paying them more. I just wish the team would sometimes put hope aside and realize that the player they love so much is just isn't as good as they think he is.

[number9 3,297]

Boyle is 37, but maybe he has a couple of season's left in him still. Definitely a Holland type of move. I would not give up Smith for him though.

He's playing very good for them right now. RH puck mover is exactly what we need too. I just wonder what he wants in a contract. They've been trying to re-sign him. 2nd + Quincey + Andersson?

[wings87 1,290]

That's fair. As far as untouchables go, aside from Dats, Z and Kronner and NTCs, I think Holland would move anyone if the right deal presented itself.

But isn't that the issue with Holland? The guy never seems to find a deal he likes.

[PumpkinEscobar 136]

Sounds like if Franzen plays Sproul will be sent down as they will be 1 over the limit

[Wings10 300]

I am sure Holland will pick up so old fart

[wings87 1,290]

I am sure Holland will pick up so old fart

Don't you mean depth defenseman.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't think it's just a Red Wing issue, most teams in every sport overvalue their prospects. I think it has a lot to do with hoping young players become good so that the organization can save on salary instead of getting proven players and paying them more. I just wish the team would sometimes put hope aside and realize that the player they love so much is just isn't as good as they think he is.

Are you talking now, or in the future? You seem to be suggesting that all prospects should be traded because they might not come close to hitting their ceilings. There needs to be a balance between not trading anyone and trading everyone, and I think that Holland does a pretty good job of that.

The main issues are that not a lot of big trades are made anymore, and that the prospects the Wings have had to trade weren't really that highly valued. Until they broke out this year, Nyquist and Tatar were just small wingers who hadn't shown they could play at an NHL lever and who were on the older end of the prospect spectrum. Again comparing them to a guy like SIlfverberg, they're smaller, older, and drafted later. I see a lot or proposals throwing out guys like Pulkinnen and Ferraro like they're top prospects, when in reality they're B and C level guys. Even Jarnkrok, who has the potential to be a top line center, has the size issue and relatively lower production in the AHL this year subtracting from his trade value. The only really top flight prospects the Wings have to trade are Sproul, Mantha, Jurco, and Mrazek. Everyone else are either projected to top out below top line/top D pairing guys or have something that lowers their value.

So really, it's not that the Wings are overvaluing the prospects, it's more a case of other teams not valuing them as highly as a lot of fans do. Why accept Pulk and Ferraro when you can get a 20 year old who was drafted at 15?

Edited February 26, 2014 by DickieDunn

[wingedominance13 112]

St. Louis has asked for a trade. With Z out I think he would be a great addition. We can fit him cap wise. Don't know what he would cost though, probably to much

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Boyle is 37, but maybe he has a couple of season's left in him still. Definitely a Holland type of move. I would not give up Smith for him though.

I really don't see the Sharks moving him. Unless they get a top pairing guy back, which kind of defeats the purpose of a trade in the first place.

[number9 3,297]

St. Louis has asked for a trade. With Z out I think he would be a great addition. We can fit him cap wise. Don't know what he would cost though, probably to much

St. Louis stated that he had a talk with Stevie Y about his future. That's it. The rest is speculation and rumor.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

St. Louis has asked for a trade. With Z out I think he would be a great addition. We can fit him cap wise. Don't know what he would cost though, probably to much

If TB trades him, it's going to be for immediate help on the wing or at center. Nyquist or Tatar would have to be part of the deal, along with a prospect or high draft pick. Even then I'm not sure that's enough.

[number9 3,297]

I really don't see the Sharks moving him. Unless they get a top pairing guy back, which kind of defeats the purpose of a trade in the first place.

Agreed that they're very unlikely to move him, just think that at the moment he'd be perfect here

[wingedominance13 112]

St. Louis stated that he had a talk with Stevie Y about his future. That's it. The rest is speculation and rumor.

Marty St. Louis has requested a trade from the #Lightning, Newsday confirmed. - Sam Carchidi

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Marty St. Louis has requested a trade from the #Lightning, Newsday confirmed. - Sam Carchidi

Asked for doesn't mean he'll get it. The Lightning are in a playoff run, they're not going to trade St. Louis if they don't get a good package back that will benefit them this year and going forward.

[number9 3,297]

Marty St. Louis has requested a trade from the #Lightning, Newsday confirmed. - Sam Carchidi

Wow, I read literally this morning that bit about MSL saying he talked to Stevie about his future. That convo got out quickly.

[wings87 1,290]

Are you talking now, or in the future? You seem to be suggesting that all prospects should be traded because they might not come close to hitting their ceilings. There needs to be a balance between not trading anyone and trading everyone, and I think that Holland does a pretty good job of that.

The main issues are that not a lot of big trades are made anymore, and that the prospects the Wings have had to trade weren't really that highly valued. Until they broke out this year, Nyquist and Tatar were just small wingers who hadn't shown they could play at an NHL lever and who were on the older end of the prospect spectrum. Again comparing them to a guy like SIlfverberg, they're smaller, older, and drafted later. I see a lot or proposals throwing out guys like Pulkinnen and Ferraro like they're top prospects, when in reality they're B and C level guys. Even Jarnkrok, who has the potential to be a top line center, has the size issue and relatively lower production in the AHL this year subtracting from his trade value. The only really top flight prospects the Wings have to trade are Sproul, Mantha, Jurco, and Mrazek. Everyone else are either projected to top out below top line/top D pairing guys or have something that lowers their value.

So really, it's not that the Wings are overvaluing the prospects, it's more a case of other teams not valuing them as highly as a lot of fans do. Why accept Pulk and Ferraro when you can get a 20 year old who was drafted at 15?

I'm talking in general most prospects are overrated. That's why you get these crazy comparisons like so and so will be the next Lidstrom. I absolutely agree that there needs to be a balance, my issue is that Holland hasn't found a balance. He seems to be hoarding all of his prospects, whether they are A, B, or C level guys. When was the last time he made a trade involving young players? I think the Lang deal really shell-shocked him and he hasn't done any major trades since then.

Agreed that they're very unlikely to move him, just think that at the moment he'd be perfect here

Yeah I doubt they move him too. But not totally surprised by request, I just don't think he and Yzerman every saw eye to eye.

Edited February 26, 2014 by wings87

[number9 3,297]

I'm talking in general most prospects are overrated. That's why you get these crazy comparisons like so and so will be the next Lidstrom. I absolutely agree that there needs to be a balance, my issue is that Holland hasn't found a balance. He seems to be hoarding all of his prospects, whether they are A, B, or C level guys. When was the last time he made a trade involving young players? I think the Lang deal really shell-shocked him and he hasn't done any major trades since then.

I think it's more appropriate to call them A level prospects, and the rest boom or bust. Holland just doesn't know whether they will boom or bust, and thus isn't willing to trade them. And he's def not moving our A's

I'm talking in general most prospects are overrated. That's why you get these crazy comparisons like so and so will be the next Lidstrom. I absolutely agree that there needs to be a balance, my issue is that Holland hasn't found a balance. He seems to be hoarding all of his prospects, whether they are A, B, or C level guys. When was the last time he made a trade involving young players? I think the Lang deal really shell-shocked him and he hasn't done any major trades since then.

Yeah I doubt they move him too. But not totally surprised by request, I just don't think he and Yzerman every saw eye to eye.

Was referring to Boyle there not MSL

[wings87 1,290]

Was referring to Boyle there not MSL

Sorry about that, I quoted the wrong post.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I'm talking in general most prospects are overrated. That's why you get these crazy comparisons like so and so will be the next Lidstrom. I absolutely agree that there needs to be a balance, my issue is that Holland hasn't found a balance. He seems to be hoarding all of his prospects, whether they are A, B, or C level guys. When was the last time he made a trade involving young players? I think the Lang deal really shell-shocked him and he hasn't done any major trades since then.

Yeah I doubt they move him too. But not totally surprised by request, I just don't think he and Yzerman every saw eye to eye.

Fans and sports writers and talk show hosts make those comparisons, not the teams.

Piche was part of the Quincey trade. Matthias was traded for Bertuzzi. A lot of the trades the Wings made involved draft picks instead of prospects, but is that because Holland won't trade prospects or because the farm system was empty and they didn't have many good prospects to trade? If you only have 2 or 3 guys you value in your system, it's not a good idea to trade them. Now that they've gotten it built back up, they'll have more pieces to move going forward, and I think you'll see some prospects being moved.

[wings87 1,290]

I wonder if Yzerman not picking Marty for two Olympics has led to some bad blood.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I wonder if Yzerman not picking Marty for two Olympics has led to some bad blood.

That's the speculation. If I was Yzerman I'd tell him to get over it, I'm not trading one of our best players in the middle of a playoff run.

[wings87 1,290]

Fans and sports writers and talk show hosts make those comparisons, not the teams.

Piche was part of the Quincey trade. Matthias was traded for Bertuzzi. A lot of the trades the Wings made involved draft picks instead of prospects, but is that because Holland won't trade prospects or because the farm system was empty and they didn't have many good prospects to trade? If you only have 2 or 3 guys you value in your system, it's not a good idea to trade them. Now that they've gotten it built back up, they'll have more pieces to move going forward, and I think you'll see some prospects being moved.

Piche wasn't a big prospect, but I see you're point. But until I actually see Holland do it, I don't believe he would make a big deal. I hope I'm wrong.