Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I think long term Nyquist and Tatar are going to be about as good as each other. Tatar is more dynamic and score more goals, Nyquist will be more solid defensively and get more assists. And I'd trade either if it brought back a good d-man or big scoring winger.

People want to make trades, but they don't want to give up good players to get them. 4 so-so players and a couple picks might work on a video game, but not in real life. If you want quality, you have to give up quality, and prospects are almost always overvalued.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I think long term Nyquist and Tatar are going to be about as good as each other. Tatar is more dynamic and score more goals, Nyquist will be more solid defensively and get more assists. And I'd trade either if it brought back a good d-man or big scoring winger.

People want to make trades, but they don't want to give up good players to get them. 4 so-so players and a couple picks might work on a video game, but not in real life. If you want quality, you have to give up quality, and prospects are almost always overvalued.

You're right on the money. Which is why I personally think now is the time to trade Nyquist. His value has never been higher, you have to give quality to get it, and I'd rather keep Tatar's aggressiveness (X factor to me). But yeah,I agree with you on all points.

[wingedominance13 112]

All I"m saying is Girardi for Quincey and a mid level pick actually helps our salary situation, if demoted Jurco, Glen, Sheehan and add Girardi and get everyone (including weiss) healthy we are cap compliant with 700,000 to spare.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

All I"m saying is Girardi for Quincey and a mid level pick actually helps our salary situation, if demoted Jurco, Glen, Sheehan and add Girardi and get everyone (including weiss) healthy we are cap compliant with 700,000 to spare.

Only until Weiss if off LTIR.

Also, why the hell would the Rags do that? Girardi for a 3rd pair d-man making more money than he's worth and a pending UFA and a mid round pick? no way. If they trade him they're going to get someone who can help more now and isn't a rental.

[DannyD 79]

Nyquist is very good, but Tatar is better. Tatar creates all his offense on his own. Nyquist has superior linemates, more icetime, and more PP time (with better linemates again). Look at his hatty last night, Zetterberg basically gift wrapped that one for him. No reason to believe that Tatar wouldn't do the same with similar opportunites, since he's basically doing the same with third line minutes and two rookies.

Also, Tatar does not play bad defense...and Nyquist is no shutdown defensive forward. They both work extremely hard on defense (watch Tatar backcheck), but they're both too small to be effective right now. I think everyone saying Nyquist is better defensively is just something people repeat for the sake of it. Tatar gets back as often as any on the team at this point.

Well then don't set your sights too high on trade deadline day because if you're not willing to part with a good player, you're not going to get anyone back who's worth a damn.

In no way am I saying Nyquist is a shut down defensive forward or Tatar is horrible defensively. Tatar has gotten a lot better defensively and he works really hard. Both of the guys are learning so much from Z and it shows in their game. Personally I feel like Nyquist is the better all around player at this point. I think they will both be staples in the top 6 once Z and Pav are gone, if not before then as long as they aren't traded obviously.

I don't think we need to trade either of them though. I would do a package of Smith or Ouellet, Jurco and a 1st, for a Dman but I'm weary of trading away young assets because I don't think we are a championship team this season anyway.

[wingedominance13 112]

Only until Weiss if off LTIR.

Also, why the hell would the Rags do that? Girardi for a 3rd pair d-man making more money than he's worth and a pending UFA and a mid round pick? no way. If they trade him they're going to get someone who can help more now and isn't a rental.

I ran cap geek with wiess off LTIR and by demoting the griffins on the roster we were cap complaint by 700,000, unless I misstepped somewhere.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.630m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($3.500m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Danny Cleary ($1.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m)
Brendan Smith ($1.263m) / Danny DeKeyser ($0.925m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
BURIED
Mikael Samuelsson ($2.900m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.975m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2014-02-03)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $2,635,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$735,667

[frankgrimes 1,836]

God I wish people would stop just posting capgeek rosters, without adding a comment. Girardi for 3,25 *lol*

The whole Vanek thing will be over within 2 months, the guy is a pure rental he wants to test UFA. So every team giving up an A level prospect + a 1 does so for a short window of his services. Smart GMs aren't crazy enough to do that, because if they want him make an offer on July 1.

From a Wings stance Holland would deserve to be fired if he packaged one of Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser or Mantha for him.

Snow will try hard to get back a serious package, because they've given up a lot to get Vanek. An argument can be made for both sides when it comes down to the driverseat, Vanek will make an already contending team better but they all know that Snow has to deal him now, or the Isles are going to lose him for nothing.

[stillwater 186]

God I wish people would stop just posting capgeek rosters, without adding a comment. Girardi for 3,25 *lol*

That's what he makes right now.

[Dabura 12,207]

God I wish people would stop just posting capgeek rosters, without adding a comment. Girardi for 3,25 *lol*

That's Girardi's current hit, if I'm not mistaken. So Dickie's saying he'd trade for him, I think. Which kinda surprises me. Who and/or what would we be giving the Rangers, Dickie?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

God I wish people would stop just posting capgeek rosters, without adding a comment. Girardi for 3,25 *lol*

The whole Vanek thing will be over within 2 months, the guy is a pure rental he wants to test UFA. So every team giving up an A level prospect + a 1 does so for a short window of his services. Smart GMs aren't crazy enough to do that, because if they want him make an offer on July 1.

From a Wings stance Holland would deserve to be fired if he packaged one of Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser or Mantha for him.

Snow will try hard to get back a serious package, because they've given up a lot to get Vanek. An argument can be made for both sides when it comes down to the driverseat, Vanek will make an already contending team better but they all know that Snow has to deal him now, or the Isles are going to lose him for nothing.

That was in a response to a post saying the Wings could trade Quincey and a pick for Girardi and be under the cap.

I don't think the Wings should trade for any of the rentals unless they can talk go the player first and make sure they're looking for a team to sign with, not wanting to test the market. The value of the rentals at the deadline is usually more than they're worth.

Edited February 3, 2014 by DickieDunn

[wingedominance13 112]

That was in a response to a post saying the Wings could trade Quincey and a pick for Girardi and be under the cap.

I don't think the Wings should trade for any of the rentals unless they can talk go the player first and make sure they're looking for a team to sign with, not wanting to test the market. The value of the rentals at the deadline is usually more than they're worth.

Yes you are correct I read the -700,000 as them being under the cap by that much, not the actual reading. An unfortunate mistake.

[Dabura 12,207]

In no way am I saying Nyquist is a shut down defensive forward or Tatar is horrible defensively. Tatar has gotten a lot better defensively and he works really hard. Both of the guys are learning so much from Z and it shows in their game. Personally I feel like Nyquist is the better all around player at this point. I think they will both be staples in the top 6 once Z and Pav are gone, if not before then as long as they aren't traded obviously.

I don't think we need to trade either of them though. I would do a package of Smith or Ouellet, Jurco and a 1st, for a Dman but I'm weary of trading away young assets because I don't think we are a championship team this season anyway.

Agree with all of this except the Smith/Ouellet + Jurco + 1st for a rental thing. With all due respect, that would, I think, be monstrously stupid. Unless we'd have some kind of gentleman's agreement that the rental in question would sign with us in the offseason. And even then, I don't think I'd be willing to give up Ouellet or Jurco, never mind both.

[kipwinger 8,524]

In no way am I saying Nyquist is a shut down defensive forward or Tatar is horrible defensively. Tatar has gotten a lot better defensively and he works really hard. Both of the guys are learning so much from Z and it shows in their game. Personally I feel like Nyquist is the better all around player at this point. I think they will both be staples in the top 6 once Z and Pav are gone, if not before then as long as they aren't traded obviously.

I don't think we need to trade either of them though. I would do a package of Smith or Ouellet, Jurco and a 1st, for a Dman but I'm weary of trading away young assets because I don't think we are a championship team this season anyway.

I know what you're saying, but two or three years from now when Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, etc. are ready for a bigger role, Datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Kronner, etc. will be on the decline. So it's a wash. We'll be further away then than we are now. Unfortunately that's what happens when you only develop two moderately decent top six forwards (Filppula and Hudler) in a decade, lose them both, and replace them with a 41 year old and a guy who's struggled through an injury. We've got no bridge talent. Nobody aged 26-30 that can score goals and win a game for you. We've got a bunch of old guys, and bunch of young guys, and nothing in between except bottom sixers.

Ken's got to decide whether he wants to win one more before our core guys get too old. If so, trade some young guys and high picks for high quality support staff. If not, sell everything that's not young or franchise for picks and let every bottom sixer and old guy walk in the offseason.

[rick zombo 3,739]

For the record, I would absouletly trade one of Tatar or Nyquist if it meant getting a big scoring winger or that defensemen we need.

But I wouldn't trade either of them for a rental.

And I would not trade Sheahan or Jurco. They both have size, and Jurco has great speed. Both are things this team needs desperately.

We got Brad Stewart for a 2nd and a 4th rounder. Surely we could land that #4 D-man without parting with any kids.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

That was in a response to a post saying the Wings could trade Quincey and a pick for Girardi and be under the cap.

I don't think the Wings should trade for any of the rentals unless they can talk go the player first and make sure they're looking for a team to sign with, not wanting to test the market. The value of the rentals at the deadline is usually more than they're worth.

Ah my mistake then so sorry, man the Rangers would be so stupid letting Girardi walk their defense isn't very good they literally should pay Lundquists bill everytime he is bailing them out. If he becomes available I say overpay for him and try to build a solid defense.

As for adding rentals:

I would only do that, IF it doesn't cost next generation talent and at least have a shot at re-signing the guy. In this day soon be UFA players aren't willing to give up their only chance to decide where they want to play unless they are playing for a cup contending team of course but other than that, it just doesn't happen very often.

To be completely honest, there is not one player available who would put this team into cup contention right now, so the smart thing might be to wait and then use the cap space to accomplish two things without giving up assets:

1. get a goal scorer

2. fix the defense

Trying to fix both come trade deadline would be a disaster in terms of picks, prospects because it costs to much. Man that Stuart deal was poor robbery on Hollands part if he could pull out something like this again with Girardi that would be something else.

Edited February 3, 2014 by frankgrimes

[Buppy 1,720]

We don't have the cap space to just add. Tatar and Nyquist make too little money to trade them for an upgrade at forward. The only trade that might work is packaging one of them along with one of Quincey or Kindl for an upgrade on defense. (Well, we could do the same package for a forward, but then we might have to rely on Almquist/Marchenko/Ouellet down the stretch. Also not sure anyone looking to improve their D would be interested in Quincey or Kindl.)

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yeah, I just can't see a lot being done at the deadline. Given how many teams are at the cap, it might be a pretty quiet deadline league wide

[Dabura 12,207]

I know what you're saying, but two or three years from now when Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, etc. are ready for a bigger role, Datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Kronner, etc. will be on the decline. So it's a wash. We'll be further away then than we are now. Unfortunately that's what happens when you only develop two moderately decent top six forwards (Filppula and Hudler) in a decade, lose them both, and replace them with a 41 year old and a guy who's struggled through an injury. We've got no bridge talent. Nobody aged 26-30 that can score goals and win a game for you. We've got a bunch of old guys, and bunch of young guys, and nothing in between except bottom sixers.

Ken's got to decide whether he wants to win one more before our core guys get too old. If so, trade some young guys and high picks for high quality support staff. If not, sell everything that's not young or franchise for picks and let every bottom sixer and old guy walk in the offseason.

I also mostly agree with this. I mean, you know me, I bang the we-got-no-bridge! drum 20 times a day. I guess the big thing is, it can't be a rental. It would make almost no sense. I've tried to figure out a way to make it work, but it's hopeless.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Yeah, I just can't see a lot being done at the deadline. Given how many teams are at the cap, it might be a pretty quiet deadline league wide

Keep in mind, a team like NYI could:

a) eat some of, say, Vanek's salary

b) take on the salary of a Quincey or Sammuelson

IF it meant getting the picks, young legs, or prospects that they want.

[Dabura 12,207]

One name I'm not sure I've discussed before: Sami Salo. Holland has shown an interest in him before. Granted, that's because he's old and incredibly injury-prone, which is what Holland likes. But he's on an expiring contract, he's right-handed, fairly big, can play top-four minutes (can't be any worse than Quincey), is good on the PP (great shot), and we could use some veteran savvy and stability on our blue line. I don't really see the Bolts parting with him this season, though. They're happy with what they've got going on, and, honestly, they probably need all the good defensemen they can get. Still, it's some food for thought.

I almost feel like that's actually the way to go on the back end next season - a couple of good, old, proven, reliable stop-gaps to hold down a couple spots while Ouellet and Sproul continue to develop on the farm at a pace we're comfortable with (rather than throwing them into the NHL fire, which I'm not entirely sure they're ready for. Certainly Sproul still has some growin' to do.) So, yes: I'm suggesting adding the very thing we DON'T want any more of. This is why I am awesome.

Obviously these wouldn't be rentals, so I guess I'm veering off-topic and talking about this summer. But humor me. What if this summer we cut loose most or all of the dead weight up front and go young with our forwards, and then on the back end we somehow lure a Cup-hungry Kimmo Timonen away from Philly (see: Alfredsson, Daniel) for his final year and ****** up Sami Salo for a year or two?

Niklas Kronwall Jonathan Ericsson

Kimmo Timonen Danny DeKeyser

Brendan Smith Sami Salo

Lashoff

Actually, looking at that, I now realize it'd be too old and slow. So, fine, pick one of Salo/Timonen. And maybe even give the other spot to Ouellet.

and ****** up Sami Salo for a year or two?

lolz wurd fillter

(rhymes with "catch")

[Dabura 12,207]

(Salo and Timonen are both Finnish. So maybe they'd like the idea of playing on the same team, maybe even the same pairing. And we could bring up Pulkkinen and make all our Swedes feel uncomfortable.)

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

I know ive expressed my love of his play multiple times, but something tells me that if we traded jurco wed regret the hell out of it in two or three years.

He's shown the same flashes of brilliance with the puck as pav did in his first season.

Not saying hes as good as pav, because hockey smart wise pav is one of the best to ever play the game.

he knows where you are, and where you should be, takes both into consideration for his positioning, then feeds the puck where your stick should be.

Jurco has the natural ability, but grew up in a different world, so he looks for you first, pavs like a computer the way he processes things, but i get the feeling jurcs could play any situation, with anyone and not have to worry tooo much about who you put him with.

Plus he's big.

Can hit.

Can shoot.

Can deke/dangle

Who knows.

Put him on pavs wing and give jurcs a Russian Rosetta stone and he could be pav with size, except a winger.

But I bet he could play c.

Too much upside to trade away.

Sheahans just too good, too big, too universal, and has too high a ceilingto trade.

Nyq and tats are the old philosophy of small ultra skill gone right, possibly for the last time as were leaning toward bigger bodies.

Keep em all.

stand pat, unless we can something for almost nothing, drw prospects are brought up right and will thrive in other places.

Keep em all except the spare parts.

But we have good prospects, wait till any of them prove theyre limited to one role, then when we have someone better at that, trade em.

But until then, these young guys are too good, could potentially be great, and theyre all well rounded.

I'd get rid of andersson before any of those four.

And manthas a big part of our future.

Can't trade him.

So steady the ship, float into the playoffs, and anything else after is a bonus.

then in the off-season, throw that money that's coming off the books at some big names.

Or make the trades then, at least we won't be over paying for a rental then.

[DannyD 79]

I agree with you. I definitely wouldn't trade Nyquist, Tatar or Jurco for a rental. That's our problem though. We don't have the cap space to bring in any big time guy unless we somehow got them to take back someone like Bert which doesn't seem very realistic. We are more fitted to stick with the guys we have until FA hits. We can get some guys off the books and free up cap space to make a move then.

I do like the talent we have coming up and we develop talent very well. In say 4 years our team could look like this granted Z will be getting ready to head back to Sweden to retire.

Nyquist - Z - Mantha

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco

Abby - Helm - Callahan?

? - Glendening - ?

Dekeyser - Big E

Smith - Ouellet

Sproul - Jensen/Marenchenko

Still leaves room in case guys like Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, Athanasiou, Frk never crack the big leagues. Or trade assets.

I don't want to trade away a potential star in Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Mantha for a rental or a defenseman who might get us in the playoffs but knocked out in the 2nd round. These guys are the future of our team. I would rather end the playoff streak this year to benefit us in the long term rather than selling the farm.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I agree with what you guys are saying, and want to clarify that while I'm in favor of moving Nyquist (and a little less so Tatar and Jurco) I would not do so for a rental. It would need to be with someone who's trying to retool, or rebuild, or just dump salary and was looking to move someone under contract.

Not that you need to agree with me, but I wanted to clarify that I have no interest in a rental.