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Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?


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#481 lidstromfan5

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:03 PM

Teams won't want our pending UFA's and we have ZERO salary cap. The Red Wings probably will make no deals.


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#482 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:10 AM

I have to agree with Dickie and ask: Why the hell does our veteran defenseman trade-deadline acquisition have to be 35+ years old?

 

I mean, Visnovsky isn't even a rental!  If we're going to make a trade for a guy with term, lets make it a worthwhile hockey trade.

 

For example... and just an example at that:

The Flames aren't making the playoffs anytime soon... how about Dennis Wideman?  His cap-hit is a little higher, but he's younger/better. You think he wouldn't waive his NMC to get the hell out of Calgary?  Wouldn't trading roster players, prospects, or picks for a player teams were clamoring for just two years ago be worth it... or at least better spent than players, prospects, picks than what would be given up for Visnovsky?  Certainly Wideman would be more expensive than Visnovsky, but it's a quality player that isn't necessarily a stop-gap. Wideman would certainly help us make the playoffs not just this year, but for a few more to come.

It certainly would pain me much less to give up a current roster player for Wideman than Visnovsky. 

 

Of course, this involves Holland putting on his big boy pants and getting down to the business of trading.

 

I'd thought about suggesting Wideman, but if I'd said Wideman instead of Visnovsky, some guy would be saying, "Why does it have to be a moron like Wideman? What has he ever done? Why can't we get some veteran savvy on the back end to counterbalance our jumpy, bumbling youth?"

 

I believe Visnovsky only has one season remaning on his contract after this one. That might, in theory, be one advantage of getting an older guy - if it's a disaster, you're not going to be stuck with him for ages. Like I've said: ideally, we get a solid top-four guy and a solid stopgap/bridge player, because Ouellet and Marchenko and Sproul are 2-3 seasons away. [Insert old guy] could be that stopgap. There are a few more reasons why you might want an older fellow, but I'm not sure I want to go much deeper, as it'll start to look like I'm demanding we get an old guy, which is not what I'm doing.

 

I guess, if I have to bottom-line it, the bottom line, for me, is: Kronwall and Ericsson are our veteran defensemen. They're the teachers on the back end. They're The Men. And...I dunno how crazy I am about that fact. Maybe I'd sleep better at night if Dan Boyle were the one reading Brendan Smith the bedtime stories at night. Maybe we need another veteran presence on the PP (in addition to Kronwall), a Boyle/Visnovsky/Timonen instead of a DeKeyser. (You'll notice the old guys I've been talking up are generally offensive-minded guys capable of running stellar power plays. I think we need an offensive-minded top-four defenseman who's capable of running a stellar power play, and I guess I'd like for that guy to not be old, if at all possible. However, the young, offensive-minded top-four defenseman who's capable of running a stellar power play is arguably the most coveted type of player in the league.)


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#483 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:42 AM

OK, my previous post is kind of a trainwreck...and this one might not be any better. It's late, I'm tired, I have a headache, my back hurts.

 

I DON'T think trading for Boyle or Timonen is really an option. I tend to blur this thread and the Next Season's Needs thread together in my mind. So, I'm NOT saying we should target either of them, unless by some miracle it looks like there might be something there to pursue.

 

Visnovsky - it's not like I love that he's old and overpaid and diminutive and an injury concern. That's not what I like about him. What I like is that he's a good offensive defenseman. Good first pass, good at rushing the puck, good on the offensive zone cycle, a real asset on the power play. What - or, perhaps, Who? - are we really missing on the blue line these days? Lidstrom and Rafalski. Visnovsky is not Lidstrom or Rafalski, but he, like the other two, is a veteran offensive defenseman who can be lethal with the man advantage. He sees the ice well. He moves the puck well. He generates offense from the back end. Excellent puck movement with a ton of experience behind it, and the calm and poise and savvy and such that comes with that much experience. We're missing this kind of stuff.

 

I mean, really, I'm not all Visnovsky-or-bust over here. I just think it's worth a good look, provided he could be had for "cheap." (The Islanders have failed this season, so there's a chance that a key piece or two or three may be made available, and - possibly - at what we might consider a good price.)

 

Ultimately, I'm not sure what to do, trade-wise. Taking our chances in free agency this summer (and, failing that, exploring the summer trade market) seems like a more appealing idea. But, of course, that's sort of assuming the better guys on The List even test the waters, never mind seriously consider signing with the Wings. *shrug*


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#484 dirtydangles

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:48 AM

One name that sticks out on that list is Anton Stralman for me. If he hits FA it likely means Girardi re-signed. I like Stralman a lot and think he would be a nice fit on the wings. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#485 RusDRW

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:02 AM

I feel this is the year we should not make any deals at the deadline but most likely Holland will do something and this will be a mistake.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#486 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 02:36 AM

One name that sticks out on that list is Anton Stralman for me. If he hits FA it likely means Girardi re-signed. I like Stralman a lot and think he would be a nice fit on the wings. 

 

Same. I think I mentioned him awhile back in a different thread, but good on you for bringing him up here. He's what I've been talking about - an offensive defenseman who's good on the point with the man advantage. What's more, he's 27, right-handed, and Swedish. My only concern would be that he hasn't really shown that he's true top-four material, at least not at this stage in his career. Then again, the Rangers have some outstanding pieces on their blue line, so maybe he blossoms into a top-four defenseman on another team. (How many people knew from the start that Jonathan Ericsson would become a serviceable #2 for us?)


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#487 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:28 AM

Also, I didn't mean to s*** on the Wideman suggestion. What do you guys think of him as an option? Broken record, but I like that he's - wait for it - an offensive defenseman who's great on the power play. Also: he's right-handed, and he can log big minutes. (Log big minutes? Is that a thing? You know when you're really tired but you can't sleep and certain words and phrases sound really weird?)

 

My concern lies mostly with his contract. He's got a pretty heavy cap hit (5.25) for another several years (expiry = summer of 2017).


Don't Toews me, bro!


#488 DickieDunn

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:33 AM

I don't like Wideman, at least not with that contract.  He's not overly physical, doesn't block a ton of shots, and seems to be out of position defensively.  +/- isn't a great stat, but comparitively on his team, he's right near the bottom on the team ranking at -16.  Stempniak is the only one who's worse, Butler is tied with Wideman.  

 

If they trade for a Flames D, I'd rather have Giordano.  He doesn't hit or block a ton of shots either, but he's better defensively and is 3rd in scoring for the Flames despite missing 18 games, and he has a better contract.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#489 e_prime

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:15 AM

Also, I didn't mean to s*** on the Wideman suggestion. What do you guys think of him as an option? Broken record, but I like that he's - wait for it - an offensive defenseman who's great on the power play. Also: he's right-handed, and he can log big minutes. (Log big minutes? Is that a thing? You know when you're really tired but you can't sleep and certain words and phrases sound really weird?)

 

My concern lies mostly with his contract. He's got a pretty heavy cap hit (5.25) for another several years (expiry = summer of 2017).

I didn't think you were s***ting on the Wideman suggestion whatsoever.  You've made some good points over the last few posts.(albeit possibly rambling/sleep-deprived  :ph34r: :tounge: )  

 

Just some counterpoints (and no, I didn't multi-quote everything.)

 

The bolded part is exactly WHY I suggested Wideman. These are all the things LGW has been asking for in a defenseman, no?

Yes, logging big minutes is the phrase you're looking for... and certainly something we need if we're looking for someone to slot in anywhere from 2 to 4 on the depth chart. 

 

5.25 million makes it difficult now, in terms of trading for him.  ...but it's not hard to stomach in the long run.

Once you shed some dead UFA weight over the summer. (Cleary, Sammy, and Bert = 6.825) 

Plus, the cap is going up, so the hit isn't too much to fret about. 

Especially seeing how teams over-pay for FA, 5.25 seems pretty reasonable.

 

...and I do have a problem with this list:   http://capgeek.com/ufa-finder/?position_id=D

 

Niskanen, Gilbert, MacDonald, Benoit, Girardi, Meszaros, Diaz, Nikitin, Hainsey, Butler... the 10 of the top 20 on the list that are guys under 35. (I could pick apart some of these names further, but I'll leave it alone for now.)

 

A lot of those names are looking for a payday and/or teams are going to be willing to shell out some cash for them because the cap is going up or they, like us, have the need for a defenseman.

 

We all know that Holland doesn't like to overpay in FA.

 

While the trade for Wideman, or any trade for a defenseman, might take heat, it would alleviate another summer of "Holland missed out on _fill in the blank UFA defenseman_." "He never does anything to make this team better!" "I like our team" (posts x infinity) etc.

 

He would provide help for us now in making the playoffs.

He solves the issue of stop-gap for a couple years while some of our younger defensemen develop. (I don't like rentals)

 

And finally, as for those that might "poo-poo" Wideman with the lack of savvy-veteran status:  He has been in the league for 8 years... so if that doesn't qualify for veteran status, I'm not sure what does.

For those asking, "What has he done?" I would counter with: "Doesn't he want to do 'something?'" (aka: make the playoffs/go for a cup) "Does he want a better chance at a cup?" ('cuz we all know that isn't happening soon in Calgary)

...and what about Visnovsky?  (and I don't mean to specifically pick on him, but he's seemingly a favorite around LGW)

What has he done? Has he won a cup?

 

Now I feel like I'm rambling and that this post is just reaching epic novel length... so, I'll leave it at that. (for now)


I don't like Wideman, at least not with that contract.  He's not overly physical, doesn't block a ton of shots, and seems to be out of position defensively.  +/- isn't a great stat, but comparitively on his team, he's right near the bottom on the team ranking at -16.  Stempniak is the only one who's worse, Butler is tied with Wideman.  

 

If they trade for a Flames D, I'd rather have Giordano.  He doesn't hit or block a ton of shots either, but he's better defensively and is 3rd in scoring for the Flames despite missing 18 games, and he has a better contract.

I don't think you can pry Giordano away from the Flames.  I used Wideman as my example because I think he's a much more realistic player to be traded. (Not that I think it's likely.)

 

I could have used Brian Campbell as an example too, but that's a cap-hit I really don't like, and well... I don't like getting laughed out of the conversation before it's even begun.

 

Back to Wideman... is he better than Q?  Kindl?  Smith?


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#490 DickieDunn

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:34 AM

I'd rather have Wideman than Campbell, unless Florida is eating some salary, and I think I'd rather see Ouellet and Marchenko brought up in place of Kindl and Quincey rather than see them make a trade just to make a trade.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#491 e_prime

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:25 AM

I'd rather have Wideman than Campbell, unless Florida is eating some salary, and I think I'd rather see Ouellet and Marchenko brought up in place of Kindl and Quincey rather than see them make a trade just to make a trade.

 

It's not just a trade to make a trade.  It's a trade for better-quality*, veteran depth.

 

*Yes, this is debatable.

 

...and yes, Ken Holland should kick the tires on Giordano. 

He'll certainly cost more prospects and picks than Wideman though.


Edited by e_prime, 13 February 2014 - 10:27 AM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#492 DickieDunn

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:57 AM

The Wings have a ton of good prospects though, they can afford to move some to get a good player in his prime now.  Unless they're 100% sure that Sproul and Ouellet are both going to be studs, move one now when his value is high.  Same with Mantha and Athanasiou


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#493 number9

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:17 AM

It's all a little pointless. With our cap situation and all our overpaid valueless vets, we're not going to trade for anyone. It would involve moving someone of current or future potential to clear cap space and Ken won't do that. Even trading someone like Smith wouldn't work. We could get someone who's better NOW, but he'll likely have a higher salary than Smith. So yeah no trades this season

#494 Nev

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:05 AM

Quite frankly, if Z needs surgery, Pav needs surgery and Franzen remains out, we're going to be sellers at the deadline, not buyers.

 

Not that we have much in the way of saleable goods - Bert, Cleary, Quincey and Sammy won't get us much.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#495 nawein

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:10 AM

Quite frankly, if Z needs surgery, Pav needs surgery and Franzen remains out, we're going to be sellers at the deadline, not buyers.
 
Not that we have much in the way of saleable goods - Bert, Cleary, Quincey and Sammy won't get us much.


Late round picks seem to work out well for us, I'd take a few of those. Let's say Alfie wants to be moved, not that I think he does but let's pretend, what could we get for him?

#496 DickieDunn

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:52 AM

I'd think that they could get a 1st and another pick or a decent prospect in exchange for Alfredsson if he decides he wants out.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#497 rick zombo

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:04 PM

In the face of the latest Zetterberg injury and with Pavel only looking 70% and with Franzen looking lost for the season, I feel like if we ever needed some leadership from Holland, now would be the time.

 

So Kenny, make the call. Either try to buy your way into the playoffs or sell off the few assets you have and build for the future. 

 

Just don't sit around with your tinker kit expecting to tweak the team here or there. Those days are gone. We need some sort of power move in a new direction.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#498 Nev

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:45 PM

I'd think that they could get a 1st and another pick or a decent prospect in exchange for Alfredsson if he decides he wants out.

 

I'd be sorry to see him go, but if the prospect is a quality C, that's about right.

 

Quincey might fetch a mid-round pick - contenders are always looking for depth defencemen

 

Same for Gustavsson if teams are looking for a solid backup.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#499 wingedominance13

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

If Z gets back surgery it'll most likely season ending. Which means cap space. 



#500 Dabura

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:51 PM

I'm not gonna freak out and start making a list of possible returns for Daniel Alfredsson. But I do think this might have to be the year that we actually do something of real worth at the deadline. Our blue line sucks, Franzen is out indefinitely, Zetterberg is out indefinitely, and Datsyuk is going at 50-75% (and the only reason he's playing at all is that it's Sochi and he's Russia's captain). On top of that, our goaltending hasn't been where it needs to be. All things considered, we might be looking at another major push just to make the playoffs, and possibly without Howard being a wall and Zetterberg throwing the team on his...back. *cringe*


Don't Toews me, bro!






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