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Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?


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#521 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:48 PM

There is not much of interest to be had at deadline. Might as well do nothing.
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#522 Richdg

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:48 PM

dabura and kip, could we trade helm? yes. it all depends on the who is coming back. Helm is a great guy, checker, and skater. But TBH we have 10 guys that fit that description, none of which have the trade value he does. To get you have to give. We need guys that can put the puck into the net up front, and a partner for Dekeyser on the blueline. If I am getting a proven 30 goal scorer or top 4 Dman for Helm+, then yes move him.



#523 kipwinger

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:13 PM

dabura and kip, could we trade helm? yes. it all depends on the who is coming back. Helm is a great guy, checker, and skater. But TBH we have 10 guys that fit that description, none of which have the trade value he does. To get you have to give. We need guys that can put the puck into the net up front, and a partner for Dekeyser on the blueline. If I am getting a proven 30 goal scorer or top 4 Dman for Helm+, then yes move him.

 

Well sure, hypothetically anyone could be had for the right price (minus Dats and Z).  But since teams aren't likely to trade away goal scoring wingers or top pairing d-men for checkers I'd say it doesn't matter.  Helm wouldn't bring you a piece like that as the centerpiece of a package.  To get a top four d-man or top six winger you've got to give the same thing.  Look at the trades for Nash, Carter, Gaborik, Heatley, (all proven 30 goal scorers).  All of them went for other top sixers or top pairing d-men straight up or as center pieces of packages.  If I'm giving up a top sixer or a top four d-man I'm not ALSO giving up my best bottom sixer unless I'm getting a total stud.

 

So...Helm + Nyquist +1st (2014) + 1st (2015) for Ovechkin...sure.

 

Helm + Nyquist + 1st for Vanek...no thanks. (And Helm + 1st doesn't land you a proven goal scorer in this league).


Edited by kipwinger, 16 February 2014 - 03:15 PM.

I'm a Paul Heyman guy. 

#524 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:11 PM

You'd have to put together a Lindros package to get someone like Ovechkin

#525 kipwinger

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:13 PM

You'd have to put together a Lindros package to get someone like Ovechkin

 

That's my point.  Helm in that kind of a package I'm ok with.  Helm in a package for a Vanek or Moulson type...no thanks.


I'm a Paul Heyman guy. 

#526 Richdg

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

kip, I agree on the no rentals thing. we don't have enough tradable pieces to waste any on rentals.



#527 Dominator2005

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:21 PM

When healthy
1st line: Z - Dats - Nyquist
2nd line: Francine - Weiss - Alf
3rd line: Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar
4th line: Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves/Miller
Spare: Andersson, LG, Tootoo

Def 1: Kronwall - E
Def 2: DeKe - Smith
Def 3: Q - Kindl - Lashoff


Pretty deep and talented group of forwards and now you want even more forwards???? Look at our DEF that's what needs to be 1st priority to fix ASAP.
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#528 LeftWinger

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:27 PM

I would trade just about anybody not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg for Ovechkin...


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#529 darkmanx

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:01 PM

I would trade just about anybody not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg for Ovechkin...

 

lol not worth it. Would cost a ton, and his cap hit is not good. He is a great goal scorer, but that's about it for him, hes way too 1 dimensional and I would rather not pursue him.


Edited by darkmanx, 16 February 2014 - 08:02 PM.


#530 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:35 PM

dabura and kip, could we trade helm? yes. it all depends on the who is coming back. Helm is a great guy, checker, and skater. But TBH we have 10 guys that fit that description, none of which have the trade value he does. To get you have to give. We need guys that can put the puck into the net up front, and a partner for Dekeyser on the blueline. If I am getting a proven 30 goal scorer or top 4 Dman for Helm+, then yes move him.

There's a reason Helm has the value that he does.  He's a guy that gives you depth to go deep in the playoffs.  Bottom 6 guys of his quality don't grow on trees, which is why our other guys don't have his value.


I like this team.


#531 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

Would trade either one to get Ovechkin...the last back to back games against the Caps we played explains why. Only way I would see him leaving D.C. Is if he asked to be traded.Leonis loves him too much

#532 Dabura

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:45 PM

You know who'd be great? Patric Hornqvist.


(Just spitballin'.)


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#533 Richdg

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:41 PM

Dom, a few things.

1. counting on that lineup to ever be 100% healthy is foolish. Helm is always hurt, Z has a bad back that will be with him until he retires, Franzen has had multiple concussions. They will be hurt going forward.

2. You have 16 forwards listed, we can only keep 14. So yes we have bodies to move. That being said, what 2-3 can get you a top 4 Dman? The answer is of course, the guys we want to keep. That is the issue with trades. get to give, it is that simple.

3. The lineup you have listed is most of our NHL ready forwards. There isn't anyone behind them ready to go. On D that isn't the case.


Dabura, last year I listed him as a guy I would go after. Hornquist, Kulimen, and a couple of others.


ZWD, yes he has value. But he isn't that hard to replace. Plus he is often hurt. Soon he will be in the 3.5 million range to keep. Not sure he is worth that type of money. he is a 3rd line C, not a premier player. helm is Draper 2.0, which is great. But who was more important? Shanny or drapes? We lack Shanny type players.



#534 Buppy

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:54 PM

Barring what would seem to be unlikely waiver claims, we are ~$1.86M over the cap. Injuries aren't really a factor in terms of what salary we can add, unless we are certain that players will be on LTIR for the remainder of the season. That means as it stands we have to waive at least two of: Cleary, Miller, Eaves; plus one of: Sammy, Bert, Glendening, or whomever is left of the previous 3. Depending on who we'd actually send down, the most salary we could conceivably add is about $1M (though that would be with only 12 forwards, so more realistically around $100-300k).

 

So any trade scenario pretty much needs to be dollar for dollar capwise. Upgrading at forward is all but out of the question. All the forwards we could potentially upgrade have small cap hits, so we'd need mutiple moves and we probably don't have enough moveable peices do that in any sensible way.

 

Upgrading at defense, moving either Quincey or Kindl, is more promising, but there's only two targets (Macdonald and Gilbert) rumored to be available who meet our cap restrictions. Maybe a few others if teams are willing to eat some cap.

 

In short, very few opportunities so we should probably expect nothing.



#535 LeftWinger

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:34 AM

DickieDunn - That is my asking price for Quincey, especially an inter-divisional trade.  Remember when Columbus wanted to rape Holland for Fedorov and again for Nash? Then accept way less from other teams outside their divisions? Well this is the same scenario...Holland doesn't HAVE to trade Quincey, Boston apparently WANTS him.  Well if you want him, this is the price you will have to pay. If you "laugh" and think that is too expensive, then you don't get Quincey for your playoff run.  This is one of the rare situations where Holland actually has the upper hand.  Boston wants Quincey for their playoff run, they must pay. 

 

The only thing is I am not sure Holland has the brass balls enough to demand a higher price for Q.  He may just accept a 4th round pick just because.  But screw helping out an interdivisional rival if you aren't going to get well compensated for it...

 

Quincey for Morrow or no trade...do I think Q is worth Morrow? Maybe.  I am not a Q fan, but Morrow has yet to crack the NHL.  He is a 1st round pick and a very good prospect.  But he is already on his third team since he has been drafted and has yet to solidify himself as a top shelf enough prospect to not be one of those "unavailable" assets.  For Pete's sake, Pitt traded him to Dallas for Brendan Morrow.  If he is worth Brendan Morrow, he damn sure could be worth Quincey...especially if Boston is really serious about wanting Quincey. 


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#536 Dominator2005

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:52 AM

DickieDunn - That is my asking price for Quincey, especially an inter-divisional trade.  Remember when Columbus wanted to rape Holland for Fedorov and again for Nash? Then accept way less from other teams outside their divisions? Well this is the same scenario...Holland doesn't HAVE to trade Quincey, Boston apparently WANTS him.  Well if you want him, this is the price you will have to pay. If you "laugh" and think that is too expensive, then you don't get Quincey for your playoff run.  This is one of the rare situations where Holland actually has the upper hand.  Boston wants Quincey for their playoff run, they must pay. 
 
The only thing is I am not sure Holland has the brass balls enough to demand a higher price for Q.  He may just accept a 4th round pick just because.  But screw helping out an interdivisional rival if you aren't going to get well compensated for it...
 
Quincey for Morrow or no trade...do I think Q is worth Morrow? Maybe.  I am not a Q fan, but Morrow has yet to crack the NHL.  He is a 1st round pick and a very good prospect.  But he is already on his third team since he has been drafted and has yet to solidify himself as a top shelf enough prospect to not be one of those "unavailable" assets.  For Pete's sake, Pitt traded him to Dallas for Brendan Morrow.  If he is worth Brendan Morrow, he damn sure could be worth Quincey...especially if Boston is really serious about wanting Quincey. 


How you know that Boston is interested in Q? There is no way they are going to trade Morow for Q as he was one of the key players in Seguin trade. Maybe Bartowski or Caron but not JM. I would ask for McQuaid as he's the one who could really improve our D as a stay-at-home D that we are missing (E is not playing that role) and he will add much needed toughness.
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#537 LeftWinger

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

I don't "know" that they are, I am just going by what pops up on here once in a while.  Somewhere, someone said that it is rumored that they are interested.  I am just going on that.  If they aren't or if they do not want to overpay, then the Wings are no worse off... my point was, if Boston indeed wants him, why settle for underpayment?  Tell them the asking price (Morrow or McQuaid or whomever) and if they do not want to pay it, oh well, their lose. after-all they are the ones asking for him, we aren't asking them to take him....if, of course, they are asking about him...


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#538 Dominator2005

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:01 PM

Dom, a few things.
1. counting on that lineup to ever be 100% healthy is foolish. Helm is always hurt, Z has a bad back that will be with him until he retires, Franzen has had multiple concussions. They will be hurt going forward.
2. You have 16 forwards listed, we can only keep 14. So yes we have bodies to move. That being said, what 2-3 can get you a top 4 Dman? The answer is of course, the guys we want to keep. That is the issue with trades. get to give, it is that simple.
3. The lineup you have listed is most of our NHL ready forwards. There isn't anyone behind them ready to go. On D that isn't the case.

Dabura, last year I listed him as a guy I would go after. Hornquist, Kulimen, and a couple of others.

ZWD, yes he has value. But he isn't that hard to replace. Plus he is often hurt. Soon he will be in the 3.5 million range to keep. Not sure he is worth that type of money. he is a 3rd line C, not a premier player. helm is Draper 2.0, which is great. But who was more important? Shanny or drapes? We lack Shanny type players.


Rich,

Do you really thinks that next year Babs is going to play 2-3 (Marchenko/Sproul/Ouellet) rookies on Def? They will be in GR for at least another year (like was the case with Kindl/Smith).

Q is gone next season.
Kindl should be traded as Babs doesn't like him.

Kronwall - E
DeKe - X
Smith - Marchenko/Ouellet/Sproul

Still need a partner for DeKe (true top 4 def).
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#539 Dominator2005

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:07 PM

I don't "know" that they are, I am just going by what pops up on here once in a while.  Somewhere, someone said that it is rumored that they are interested.  I am just going on that.  If they aren't or if they do not want to overpay, then the Wings are no worse off... my point was, if Boston indeed wants him, why settle for underpayment?  Tell them the asking price (Morrow or McQuaid or whomever) and if they do not want to pay it, oh well, their lose. after-all they are the ones asking for him, we aren't asking them to take him....if, of course, they are asking about him...


Bruins "interests" is just a pure speculation from hf-boards when Seidenberg got injured - that could be the source.

What I'm saying that we have a ton of the D prospects but we need a proven top 4 D.
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#540 DickieDunn

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:14 PM

DickieDunn - That is my asking price for Quincey, especially an inter-divisional trade.  Remember when Columbus wanted to rape Holland for Fedorov and again for Nash? Then accept way less from other teams outside their divisions? Well this is the same scenario...Holland doesn't HAVE to trade Quincey, Boston apparently WANTS him.  Well if you want him, this is the price you will have to pay. If you "laugh" and think that is too expensive, then you don't get Quincey for your playoff run.  This is one of the rare situations where Holland actually has the upper hand.  Boston wants Quincey for their playoff run, they must pay. 

 

The only thing is I am not sure Holland has the brass balls enough to demand a higher price for Q.  He may just accept a 4th round pick just because.  But screw helping out an interdivisional rival if you aren't going to get well compensated for it...

 

Quincey for Morrow or no trade...do I think Q is worth Morrow? Maybe.  I am not a Q fan, but Morrow has yet to crack the NHL.  He is a 1st round pick and a very good prospect.  But he is already on his third team since he has been drafted and has yet to solidify himself as a top shelf enough prospect to not be one of those "unavailable" assets.  For Pete's sake, Pitt traded him to Dallas for Brendan Morrow.  If he is worth Brendan Morrow, he damn sure could be worth Quincey...especially if Boston is really serious about wanting Quincey. 

 

Did you really just compare Quincey to Fedorov and Nash?  Really?  REALLY?

 

If they trade Quincey for a 4th rounder, Holland is doing pretty good.  I don't care if it is to a division rival, guys like Quincey aren't guys you try to keep away from certain teams because they might hurt you later.


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