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Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?


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#881 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

It almost seems like forever since this team has dominated everyone oh the good old days. The sad truth is we might never see a team like the 2002 edition again. Bieksa would be a very nice veteran but I don't think he is available

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#882 stillwater

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:32 PM

Anyone proposing the idea of trading Gustav Nyquist for any of the players being mentioned as "available" should have their status as a hockey fan revoked.

 

The same pretty much goes for Tomas Tatar.



#883 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:34 PM

Anyone proposing the idea of trading Gustav Nyquist for any of the players being mentioned as "available" should have their status as a hockey fan revoked.
 
The same pretty much goes for Tomas Tatar.


Him and Mantha should be untouchable and I highly doubt Holland would trade them.

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#884 DickieDunn

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:40 PM

No young player is untouchable.  I wouldn't trade Nyquist plus very much for Kesler, but straight up, or for Almquist or another C prospect or lower round pick, then I do it.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#885 Wingsfan72

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:01 PM

It almost seems like forever since this team has dominated everyone oh the good old days. The sad truth is we might never see a team like the 2002 edition again. Bieksa would be a very nice veteran but I don't think he is available

As long as we live in a Cap world we're going to have to let that comparison go.  Suffice it to say that we probably would not be a bubble team (and neither would Columbus) if there was no cap. 

 

As far as Trading youth away goes, I don't see why so many are in support of it.  People are crying for a change to help our future but are unable to see that players like Tatar, Nyquist, Mrazek, Dekeyser, etc ARE our future.  Plus the pool of prospects we have are not looking too shabby.  I'd say give it another season or two before we're trading the farm.

 

If you look at it, tats and goose are having comparable (real) rookie seasons to Pav and Hank.  FWIW 




 
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#886 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:16 PM


It almost seems like forever since this team has dominated everyone oh the good old days. The sad truth is we might never see a team like the 2002 edition again. Bieksa would be a very nice veteran but I don't think he is available


As long as we live in a Cap world we're going to have to let that comparison go.  Suffice it to say that we probably would not be a bubble team (and neither would Columbus) if there was no cap. 
 
As far as Trading youth away goes, I don't see why so many are in support of it.  People are crying for a change to help our future but are unable to see that players like Tatar, Nyquist, Mrazek, Dekeyser, etc ARE our future.  Plus the pool of prospects we have are not looking too shabby.  I'd say give it another season or two before we're trading the farm.
 
If you look at it, tats and goose are having comparable (real) rookie seasons to Pav and Hank.  FWIW 


How can you ? This team had everything and personally I loved everything about 2002 just the best year I've ever had add to that this tremendous team and it's the perfect storm.

Holland should try to offer something creative meet player agents somewhere and discuss things like double contracts for top ufas to bring the caphit down..

As for trading I would be happy with us being sellers.

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#887 DickieDunn

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:42 PM

How can you ? This team had everything and personally I loved everything about 2002 just the best year I've ever had add to that this tremendous team and it's the perfect storm.

Holland should try to offer something creative meet player agents somewhere and discuss things like double contracts for top ufas to bring the caphit down..

As for trading I would be happy with us being sellers.


What do you mean by double contracts?

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#888 frankgrimes

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:53 PM

What do you mean by double contracts?

 

Telling the agent "if your client is signing with us for 5 years, he will get another guaranteed 5 year contract after that IF he signs under ..... - so basically it's a ten year contract but officialy it's only 5 years => caphit down :) )


Edited by frankgrimes, 27 February 2014 - 01:54 PM.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#889 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:57 PM

 

Telling the agent "if your client is signing with us for 5 years, he will get another guaranteed 5 year contract after that IF he signs under ..... - so basically it's a ten year contract but officialy it's only 5 years => caphit down :) )

 

Sorry that does not happen lol


Also if people are thinking we're going to be sellers in any aspect they're going to be sorely disappointed. 


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When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#890 Bannedforlife

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:00 PM

Discount Daable-Contract!



#891 DickieDunn

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:08 PM


What do you mean by double contracts?


 
Telling the agent "if your client is signing with us for 5 years, he will get another guaranteed 5 year contract after that IF he signs under ..... - so basically it's a ten year contract but officialy it's only 5 years => caphit down :) )


Why would an agent or player do that instead of getting a better deal now and then get another normal contract later? What if the GM leaves? Or the player gets hurt?

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#892 wings87

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:13 PM

OK, that's what I was wondering. I'd thought that was the case, but it seemed silly to me.By all means then, use the space!


I guess the reasoning behind it is that only half the league makes the playoffs and it wouldn't be fair for the other half to continue to pay players. So that's where the no cap rule comes in, I think.

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#893 wings87

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:25 PM

I read an interesting quote from Royals GM Dayton about the Will Myers trade:

"If you focus on what youre losing, youll never make a deal. Youll be paralyzed. You have to focus on what youre getting in return and thats what we focused on."

I know it's not about Hockey, but I think it fits with the theme and philosophy of the trade deadline or trades in general.

Edited by wings87, 27 February 2014 - 02:30 PM.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#894 ShanahanMan

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:32 PM

Mantha should be untouchable. 

 

While we have some great playmakers, it's been a while since we've had a pure goal scorer/sniper on this team who can put up 35+ (ie, a Stamkos, Malkin, Ovi, Gaborik type of player). The last one we had was Hossa I'd say.

 

We add a whole new level of excitement to the game when having one of these. No touchie me Mantha! 


Edited by ShanahanMan, 27 February 2014 - 02:32 PM.



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#895 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:46 PM

 

 

The bubble teams always have the toughest decisions at this time of year and the Detroit Red Wings are a perfect example leading up to Wednesday's 3 p.m. ET trade deadline.

Just three points ahead of the danger zone in the Eastern Conference on Thursday morning, the Wings are hardly in the position to be mortgaging the future for any of the big-name rental players.

On the flip side, they've hung in incredibly well in the playoff race despite massive injuries (the latest being Henrik Zetterberg, who's gone at least eight weeks) and if they can ever get healthy enough, who knows what damage they could do in a wide-open Eastern Conference.

So what do you do if you're veteran Red Wings GM Ken Holland?

"The phone lines seem to be heating up," Holland told ESPN.com Thursday. "We would prefer to do a hockey deal. Meaning a player that's on our roster going forward [past this season].

"Unfortunately, we're on the bubble. It's hard to risk that if we miss the playoffs, to trade a high draft pick or a real top prospect for not even a playoff run. At the same time, we feel that the kids that we've got -- Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco -- they have really made a positive impact on our hockey team. Looks like they're going to be around here for a while and they should be getting better."

And there's more coming from AHL Grand Rapids as well. The Wings have done a sensational job of building the base back up without having to finish in the basement of the standings like most organizations do.

So, the delicate balance right now is that the Wings have a shot if they get in, but they also don't want to spend away ridiculous future assets for a short-term fix.

Not to put words into Holland's mouth, because he was careful not to mention any names, but I think it's safe to say that the Wings would not entertain the likes of rentals Thomas Vanek or Matt Moulson or any other high-profile, pending UFAs.

I suspect they would be open to a rental on the blue-line in terms of paying a small price for a depth defenseman.

Now what about a hockey deal, as Holland suggested?

Again, my words, not Holland's, but center Ryan Kesler to me is the type of player whom the Wings would definitely have interest in, if the price was right. He's signed past this year, he's a two-way stud and he's a Michigan kid.

My sense is the Wings will keep an eye on that situation in Vancouver between now and Wednesday's deadline.

If what Vancouver is asking is too high a price for Kesler, then I don't see Detroit as a player in that mix. But if the price comes down and something makes sense, I would think the Wings would keep tabs on that one.

 

Another trade deadline article.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#896 stillwater

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:41 PM

I read an interesting quote from Royals GM Dayton about the Will Myers trade:

"If you focus on what youre losing, youll never make a deal. Youll be paralyzed. You have to focus on what youre getting in return and thats what we focused on."


After this season, James Shields will be a 33-year old starting pitcher, and Myers will be one of the best young players in baseball.

The KC Royals will still have won absolutely nothing, and Shields will be somewhere else

And Dayton Moore, not "Dayton", he'll be a salesman at Bill's Sporting Goods.

Edited by stillwater, 27 February 2014 - 03:42 PM.


#897 wings87

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

After this season, James Shields will be a 33-year old starting pitcher, and Myers will be one of the best young players in baseball.The KC Royals will still have won absolutely nothing, and Shields will be somewhere elseAnd Dayton Moore, not "Dayton", he'll be a salesman at Bill's Sporting Goods.

First of all who cares if I forgot to mention his last name, you had no problem understanding who I was quoting.
And second, I never said it was a great trade; but as a trade philosophy a GM you can't be scared in giving up young players just because they might become better somewhere else. Doing what's best for the team is most important, whether it's trading prospects or keeping them, as a GM you have to look at your team and decide what's best.

And the Myers trade notwithstanding Dayton Moore is one of the brightest executives in the game. He grew up under Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz, and I'm sure they taught him a thing or two.

Edited by wings87, 27 February 2014 - 09:15 PM.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#898 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:13 PM

First of all who cares if I forgot to mention his last name, you had no problem understanding who I was quoting.
And second, I never said it was a great trade; but as a trade philosophy a GM you can't be scared in giving up young players just because they might become better somewhere else. Doing what's best for the team is most important, whether it's trading prospects or keeping them, as a GM you have to look at your team and decide what's best.

And the Myers trade notwithstanding Dayton Moore is one of the brightest executives in the game. He grew up under Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz, and I'm sure they thought him a thing or two.

 

It's obvious what your point was and that you were not analyzing the trade itself or some baseball GMs career. He must be having a really bad day. lol

 

No doubt Holland has this problem at times as he seems to get a little too connected to guys once they get on the Wings roster.

 

However it's also important to always keep in mind the direction and state of the franchise as well. I don't envy a GM's job.  Ok I do, but I don't pretend it's as easy as people think.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#899 dirtydangles

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

 

It's obvious what your point was and that you were not analyzing the trade itself or some baseball GMs career. He must be having a really bad day. lol

 

No doubt Holland has this problem at times as he seems to get a little too connected to guys once they get on the Wings roster.

 

However it's also important to always keep in mind the direction and state of the franchise as well. I don't envy a GM's job.  Ok I do, but I don't pretend it's as easy as people think.

I envy holland. He gets paid loads of money lately to sit on his hands. The scouts are doing a lot of the dirty work finding the young talent and holland just has to make sure they actually get a roster spot when they are ready (something he blows at). If he was making big moves or solid UFA acquisitions I would be impressed but the latest acquisitions of Quincey, Sammy, Tootoo, Coliacovo, White, Commodore, Weiss?? were all terrible and low risk/reward type. The only deal I applaud him for lately was Alfie who was pretty much ready to come anyways. Holland HAS been able to sign our talent at reasonable deals which is nice I guess.


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#900 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:32 PM

I envy holland. He gets paid loads of money lately to sit on his hands. The scouts are doing a lot of the dirty work finding the young talent and holland just has to make sure they actually get a roster spot when they are ready (something he blows at). If he was making big moves or solid UFA acquisitions I would be impressed but the latest acquisitions of Quincey, Sammy, Tootoo, Coliacovo, White, Commodore, Weiss?? were all terrible and low risk/reward type. The only deal I applaud him for lately was Alfie who was pretty much ready to come anyways. Holland HAS been able to sign our talent at reasonable deals which is nice I guess.

 

That's what stands out the most to me.  He convinces nearly every core player to buy in and take a discount.  That's not to be understated.

 

I don't know.  I think it's convenient for fans to have one guy to direct hate and blame when things don't go our way when we know full well its a committee up there making decisions.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”





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