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Is it 1970 again?


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#1 Richdg

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

Focusing on the product on the ice, it is a fair question. 1970 was the last hurrah for the great 50's and 60's teams/players. It was the last time we made the PO's for many years. That team had 2 long time greats still playing and performing-Howe and Delvecchio. We had a long time great running the team as Coach/GM in Abel. It was the beginning of the era known as the "Dead Wing" era.

Now could we be at the same point? 2 long time aging greats in Z and D, long time coach and GM in Babcock and Holland, and we are sliding.

 

Of course we are not sure one way or the other right now. Time will tell. But there are some interesting parallels here......



#2 VM1138

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

I doubt we will miss playoffs, or start a Dead Things era, but I definitely see an era of lowered expectations. Not so long ago our mentality was "Cup or Bust." I don't see that coming back soon. We have good players coming up, just like the Wings in the 70s, but not near the level of what we are losing. Difference is, the Wings of the 70s had bad coaching and front office, the modern Wings have the best. So I don't see us being worse than this season anytime soon.
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#3 toby91_ca

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:54 PM

I do think there is trouble brewing with the team with the departures of D & Z, which is coming sooner than most hope.  Regardless of when they stop playing, they are in decline now and likely subject to potential injury concerns.  It's a fact of life and comes with age.  There are very, very few exceptions to that.  Lidstrom was one of the exceptions, his game didn't decline too much and he wasn't susceptible to injury too much either....mostly because of the style of game he played (wasn't centred around speed or physical play).  You don't have that same scenario with Z & D. 

 

That said, not sure I'd start thinking there is a paralell with the Dead Wings era because of the era we are in now, it's easier to rebuild.  Teams are much more competitive, the worst teams are not that much worse than the best teams.  From a points perspective, some of that is artificial because of the points system, but some of it is just pure factual due to the spreading around of talent.  Teams can't load up on all the superstars anymore due to the cap.  Of course, you could look at it being increasingly difficult to make the playoffs as well due to the competitive nature of the league as well.



#4 derblaueClaus

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:18 PM

Don't think so, like toby said it's much easier to rebuild in the cap-era than it was before. When Z and Dats retire we'll have a ton of money to spent on upcoming free agents. Plus we have have a great front office. I know Holland gets critized pretty much by some around here. But an organisation that is able to draft guys like Tatar und Mrazek with very high picks is absolutly able to rebuild a team from a better draftpositions. We may even see one of our upcoming superstars with Anothny Mantha right now. I may take some time and ,since we are in the cap-era, we will most likley not regain the dominance of the late 90's/early 00's but we will not spent 20 years near the bottom of the league or out of a playoffspot. 

 

Will me make the playoffs every time ? I don't think so either, the league is becoming to competetive for that. But those bust years will be the future boom years if you draft skillfully and don't waste yout upcoming talents or picks in dumb trades. So they are kind of necssesary to build a cupwinning team these days.


Edited by derblaueClaus, 29 January 2014 - 05:26 PM.

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#5 mjtm77

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:32 PM

I honestly think its more everyone on this board is bi polar. When we win we are the best, when we loose we Are the dead wings. Tbh some of you redwings fans are kinda embracing. (To Trade Datsyuk is an all time low)

I'm kinda ashamed to even come on here, read, post and to call you guys hockey fans.
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#6 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

I honestly think its more everyone on this board is bi polar. When we win we are the best, when we loose we Are the dead wings. Tbh some of you redwings fans are kinda embracing. (To Trade Datsyuk is an all time low)

I'm kinda ashamed to even come on here, read, post and to call you guys hockey fans.

I wouldn't really label the board as a whole in that category, but I do agree that calling for a Datsyuk trade is wayyy overboard.  That's about as knee jerk as it gets.


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#7 wings87

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 06:05 PM

I wouldn't really label the board as a whole in that category, but I do agree that calling for a Datsyuk trade is wayyy overboard.  That's about as knee jerk as it gets.

I say trade them all, trade them while we still can at least before the Zombie apocalypse hits. Did you guys see Atlanta? We all know it's coming. :scared:


Edited by wings87, 29 January 2014 - 06:06 PM.

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#8 Richdg

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 06:40 PM

Just to add a little more. How much longer is Mr I going to be with us? How much longer before Holland retires? Holland joked for years he was going to retire after Lidstrom left..... Babcock is only signed through next season, does he get extended?

 

As for building a team, it is not easier to win in the cap era. It was much easier before the cap. Even when Z and D are gone it may not help us. How many high end players even make it to UFA now? Not to mention you have to resign your home grown talent.



#9 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:12 PM

No one player will replace zetterberg, no one player will replace datsyuk, I think it'll be by committee and by getting bigger well get harder to play against, give up less chances and have more of our own.
Mantha may replace the production of one of them, but not the intangibles.
Z (god willing) will still be playing in 2020 so hes got time to mold the next captain.
And whether or not dats. Stays here until hes forty, given he's already 35 and is still a top 5 c in the league, I could see him still being able to contribute enough to be on the second line. But I would be surprised if he didn't go home after his new extensions up.

But either way.
We have a good core that should be here long enough to help guide the kids into the next generation.
But were going to be fine.

We have 3 of our top4 wingers of the future already up and showing they have first and second line potential, and when mantha joins jurco, nyq, and tats the only thing left to figure out is who'll center them.
If they want they could even put sheahan as a top line winger, but Im imagining Riley and jarnkrok are the contingency plan for our top centers, until something else comes along...
We have time.

Barring trades or some unforseen circumstance We still may have Weiss if he picks it up, franzen if he can get healthy, helm who'll be a bit older but much more seasoned(also if he can stay healthy), Abby, Andy, and glendenning and whatever we lose, well pick up in the trade, and theres always the random free agent.

Andreas Athanasiou will be in gr next season, he can play center or wing and hes got speed like helm in his prime and in his best of health speed and has shown some beautiful hands.


Not to mention we got mrazek knocking on the door, and all of our young promising d prospects.

We have an embarrassment of riches of skilled and big strong guys, and youre freaking out.
Ha.
Tatar and nyq are small, but as long as they progress right they're skilled enough to get themselves out of trouble.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 29 January 2014 - 10:18 PM.


#10 Buppy

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:01 AM

I can say with absolute certainty that we will not "miss the playoffs for many years" this year.

 

If we do happen to hit another dead era, it will, like the last, be more about what happens during that era that what happened immediately preceding it.

 

We can't solve all our potential future problems now. We can't fail to solve them now either. Pardon me for waxing philosophical, but the future, though full of uncertainty, is also full of opportunity.



#11 rick zombo

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:13 AM

Is it 1970 again? 

 

I dunno. I do know I’m not wearing Bell-bottoms. 

 

But I did watch “American Hustle”.

 

I’m so confused


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#12 frankgrimes

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:34 AM

I honestly think its more everyone on this board is bi polar. When we win we are the best, when we loose we Are the dead wings. Tbh some of you redwings fans are kinda embracing. (To Trade Datsyuk is an all time low)

I'm kinda ashamed to even come on here, read, post and to call you guys hockey fans.

 

Nobody is forcing you to do this. If you hate it that much don't, problem solved.

 

Anyway, I agree with VM we are sadly entering an era with lowered expectations and a lot of uncertainty and personally I absolute hate this combination. Change alone is not something I like but couple that with uncertainty and I'm always very nervous (especially in RL). If we are honest, the reason this team has been hanging on the last few years are Z and Pasha and they won't be playing for ever, Pasha may have 2 strong years (hopefully) left and Z depening on his back 3 - 4 that's not a lot. I love the youth movement but I highly doubt any of them, will come even close to Z or Pashas level, but that is exactly what we would need in order to kickstart this rebuild/retool phase.

 

Sadly the best owner in all of sports is not allowed to fix the problems in one off season, we all know this would be a different team given a better league management. So the team might have to suck for a few years in order to rise to the top again, you know the stupid "tank to win and become team Bettman" Penguins model in order to win the cup.

 

In all honesty Holland is also to blame for the current state of this team, people were calling for a more aggressive rebuild after this team lost in the Stanley Cup finals and once Lidstrom retired, there was absolutely no plan B and it backfired heavily. The good thing is, if the Wings are more and more on the decline next year will be a good year to suck, because the big prize at the end will be Connor McDavid.

 

Will it be another dead wings era? Possible but I don't think so, the team will miss the playoffs a lot more often but I also think, they might be lucky and make it a few times.

 

It almost feels like forever since we've talked about "why can't this loaded team put together more double digit win streaks?" and now we are talking about hanging on in order to make the playoffs, If******ly hate the new NHL, it was so much better pre 2005. The only good thing is, once the Wings are done with their rebuild/retooling period (if done right), the now elite teams will be on the decline and or at least not as strong as they are now.


Edited by frankgrimes, 30 January 2014 - 10:35 AM.

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#13 rick zombo

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:45 AM

There is one thing I can think of, in retrospect, that Holland should have done to prepare for the post Lidstrom era:

 

Summer, 2009. He should have packaged Franzen, Filpulla (while they were hot - coming off two good playoff runs) along with prospects and/or draft picks to acquire a young blue chip defensemen like Ekman-Larsen, and kept Hossa. Instead, he lost Hossa for nothing.


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#14 toby91_ca

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

 

Sadly the best owner in all of sports is not allowed to fix the problems in one off season, we all know this would be a different team given a better league management.

 

Poor league management is allowing teams to spend as much as they need to in order to ice the best team.  Even if all teams had the same amount of buying power, if a team is able to buy up all the talent for whatever reason...doesn't make for a very good product.



#15 LeftWinger

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:34 AM

Too much parity in the league to have another Dead Wing era...of course tell that to an Oiler fan...


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#16 stillwater

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:30 PM

No, in 1970 there were no concussions, or sports hernia's, the only thing to worry about was a hangover.

 

In reality there is very, very little to compare between the two teams. The game has changed completely, I mean other than the goal to put the puck in the opposing net.



#17 hooon

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:35 PM

I think this team is a lot better than it has looked so far, if nothing else than because of all the injuries.

 

I also think we will better next year than we are this year, especially now that we've seen how well the young guys are progressing. Even without signing a single free agent in the off season, this team gets better by shedding a lot of dead weight. 

 

Call me crazy, but I actually like the direction the Wings are headed.


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#18 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:26 PM

I think this team is a lot better than it has looked so far, if nothing else than because of all the injuries.
 
I also think we will better next year than we are this year, especially now that we've seen how well the young guys are progressing. Even without signing a single free agent in the off season, this team gets better by shedding a lot of dead weight. 
 
Call me crazy, but I actually like the direction the Wings are headed.

I'm right there with you, were transitioning kind of well given the amount of changes were going through, keep the playoff streak alive while retooling and the wings brass will be back in the conversations of the best front office ever.
but this is a doom and gloom thread.
Were in the wrong place.

#19 KATIEBARTHEDOOR24

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:29 PM

Darkness with Harkness will never happen again. Heres an odd newspaper clipping. Hope the link works.

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#20 Richdg

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:44 PM

Stillwater......that is just silly. All the same injuries were there, we just didn't know about those, nor were those injuries treated correctly or at all for that matter, and those injuries really messed some guys up and shortened careers.







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