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The NHL reffing affecting the game


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#41 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:27 AM

I'm a bit on the fence so stick with me here for a moment.

 

I'm not defending the Refs, nor am I saying bad calls never happen. It is true it happens in all sports, It's bad in Baseball, it's bad in the NFL and they do have video replay which they review during challenges and still at times get it wrong. 

 

I don't know how often I am watching a game and I say to myself after a penalty is called "I need to see the replay, I didn't catch what happened." That's because one pair of human eyes can't watch what all 10 skaters are doing at one time on the ice. I understand it is their job, I get this is what they are paid to do, but until there are 6+ refs on the ice to catch everything, a ton of delays from conferences and discussions, or excessive video replays, i'll take the human error over what it could come down to which is a painstaking process to determine the validity of a minor penalty. 

 

They need to make snap decisions based on what they see at that time. The trip in overtime wasn't a great call, but it wasn't an awful call either. In the moment, the angle the ref is standing, and what the infraction appeared to be, you cannot fault the ref. There is such a fine line of determining right in that minute if the blade of the stick caught the skate or the skate caught the stick. Either way I doubt anyone here watching the game was 100% confident during live action as it happened before the replay was shown with absolute certainty it was or was not a penalty.  

 

This is the reality of sports, and being a sports fan. I don't want video review after every infraction. I don't want computers or technology determining what is and is not a penalty. I don't want to sit in front of the television for 10-15 minutes, have them cut to commercial break just to return to determine if a penalty is a penalty or not. That is a ridiculous concept coming from a hockey fan and a sports fan in general, it would slow the pace of the game, and just cause further drama and annoyance.

 

It was one call in overtime in 1 of 82 regular season games. The refs aren't out to get the Red Wings, it's our viewpoint as fans to defend every action of our players at all times, more times than not because of our bias we won't agree with calls. 

 

So what can be done about the refs? As far as i'm concerned the system as it sits is fine. You take the good with the bad, sometimes it goes our way, sometimes it doesn't. This is how sports have always been and will continue to be. 


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#42 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:12 AM

It's not the number of calls the refs make it's the timing of them.  I believe that they do try and control the outcome to a certain extent.  Of course they can't make a team win or lose but they can influence it to a certain degree.  That's my beef.



#43 Playmaker

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:43 AM

It's not the number of calls the refs make it's the timing of them.  I believe that they do try and control the outcome to a certain extent.  Of course they can't make a team win or lose but they can influence it to a certain degree.  That's my beef.

If you don't make a call you are influencing the game as well.  I think many fans don't consider that.  Also, even a mediocre PK has a 70% chance of killing a penalty.  So it doesn't necessarily have to be the deciding factor in a game.  The Wings made it one by not executing on 3 PP's.  It was their bad, not the officials.



#44 theman19

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:00 AM

The problem is, and always has been, when the playoffs start those kinds of calls that refs "have to make" go out the window. You think Ovi gets that call in game seven of a playoff series? Of course not, so why call it now?



#45 SDavis35

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:35 AM

If you don't make a call you are influencing the game as well.  I think many fans don't consider that.  Also, even a mediocre PK has a 70% chance of killing a penalty.  So it doesn't necessarily have to be the deciding factor in a game.  The Wings made it one by not executing on 3 PP's.  It was their bad, not the officials.

 

The Wings were 2/3 on the PP, the fact they didn't kill their penalties is why they lost. Washington was 3 for 6. That last call was brutal, and I think OT penalties should be limited only to automatic calls like slashing or delay of game, with few exceptions. The way Washington was flopping all over the place is where my issue lies, the refs call what they see and more and more players and diving and flopping to the ice so they get the call. I've also seen some players dive into the boards for the sake of getting the call. It sickens me, and I can't blame the refs, it's the players finding every tiny advantage they can get. If Refs started to catch on, they would be calling more dives and hopefully that fixes the issue. 



#46 DickieDunn

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:05 AM

 

The Wings were 2/3 on the PP, the fact they didn't kill their penalties is why they lost. Washington was 3 for 6. That last call was brutal, and I think OT penalties should be limited only to automatic calls like slashing or delay of game, with few exceptions. The way Washington was flopping all over the place is where my issue lies, the refs call what they see and more and more players and diving and flopping to the ice so they get the call. I've also seen some players dive into the boards for the sake of getting the call. It sickens me, and I can't blame the refs, it's the players finding every tiny advantage they can get. If Refs started to catch on, they would be calling more dives and hopefully that fixes the issue. 

 

So you want a different set of rules.  Which will benefit the teams that are more likely to throw cheap shots.  IMO, that attitude is stupid.  The rules are the rules.  If something is a call in the first 2 minutes, it should be a call in the last 2 minutes.  Either way the ref's decision affects the game.  If he makes the call, it benefits the team that should get a PP.  If he lets it go, it gives the team that committed the penalty an advantage where the other team was probably called for a similar penalty and had to kill a PP earlier in the game.  As a player I want consistency above all.  If you're going to call everything.  Fine, I'll know that.  If you're going to let things go, fine, I'll adjust my game accordingly.  But if you're going to let 6 blatant trips go and then call someone for tripping when a guy falls on his own, that's when I get pissed.


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#47 mjtm77

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:07 PM

Putting our team out the window and talking about the NHL in general, the reffing is bad and I dunno why. No days we and the players don't know what is a penalty. Sometimes they call it and sometimes they don't. It's getting a little out of hand.

Also the refs do try to influence the game by giving late power plays to teams at home that are trailing. It always happens. (Micky called it two games ago) There is no denying that the reffing is horrible.

Do u guys think the game is too fast? Is it a higher power in control? Do the refs not get in trouble? Why is our officiating so bad. In the IIHF, rugby and I'm sure other sports the reffing is almost perfect
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#48 Opie

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:13 PM

STRICTLY OPINION:

 

The NFL is looking to make changes in the way it is officiated, the NBA(even without scandals included) has been out of whack for a while and MLB is straight up crazy with Ref/umpire Bias.

 

The NHL is no different, in the past 20 years the 4 major sports in America have increased in size, speed, skill, intelligence and equipment (lighter/faster and bigger/safer) the Refs have for the most part remained the same. Think how old the NBA and MLB officials are and how many have been there for 20+ years.

 

I use the NBA as a great analogy for this, look at the refs, how many are over 6 feet tall, yet how many NBA players are under 6 feet tall. They are outclassed, simply put. 

 

The only people who can keep up to the speed, size and skill of the game, are playing the game, they can not officiate themselves, the game is too fast, too big for the officials.


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#49 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:32 PM

If you don't make a call you are influencing the game as well.  I think many fans don't consider that.  Also, even a mediocre PK has a 70% chance of killing a penalty.  So it doesn't necessarily have to be the deciding factor in a game.  The Wings made it one by not executing on 3 PP's.  It was their bad, not the officials.

 

I'm not talking about the Wings specifically, but the league as a whole.



#50 mjtm77

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:27 PM

Reffing in today's game was pretty awful. I think it's time for a change.
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#51 Barrie

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:03 PM

Ok my first post in about a year...

 

I think the NHL officiating is horrible, the worst in pro sports. I find it hard to take hockey serious sometimes because the refs have too much effect on momentum and the outcome of the game. Sometimes they have more of an effect then the players do, which I think is a problem. Then there's making calls based on the score. I seriously think something needs to be done, a different system needs to be put in place, or they even need to rethink if 2 minutes for some minor calls like a little hook or hold is too much time. I don't understand why the League allows the refs to have this big of an effect on the game, unless they use it as a way to keep teams close in the standings for their parity. I wouldn't be surprised one day if I heard the League controls who wins and loses with their officiating.

 

Also, I think one of the reasons why there's so many shootout games is because of the refs allowing teams to get back into games with their calls. Most games you can bet on who'll get the next penalty based on the score, despite what's actually going on.

 

Compared to other sports, I think MLB is fine, all they do is call "strike", "ball", "out", "safe", "fair", or "foul". There's isn't too much umps can do on their own to effect the outcome. It's pretty much one way or the other, and 99.9999% of the time they're right. The players effect the outcome.

 

Football, they only have 5, 10, or 15 yard penalties, or pass intereference. Similar to Baseball, I think 99.9999% of the time they're right, and the players effect the outcome. Moving up 5 or 10 yards doesn't make a huge difference when the field is 100 yards. It's not like giving a team 2 minutes to fire shots at the net for a slight little hook or hold.

 

Basketball, I have no opinion because I don't watch.


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#52 DickieDunn

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:40 PM

Ok my first post in about a year...

 

I think the NHL officiating is horrible, the worst in pro sports. I find it hard to take hockey serious sometimes because the refs have too much effect on momentum and the outcome of the game. Sometimes they have more of an effect then the players do, which I think is a problem. Then there's making calls based on the score. I seriously think something needs to be done, a different system needs to be put in place, or they even need to rethink if 2 minutes for some minor calls like a little hook or hold is too much time. I don't understand why the League allows the refs to have this big of an effect on the game, unless they use it as a way to keep teams close in the standings for their parity. I wouldn't be surprised one day if I heard the League controls who wins and loses with their officiating.

 

Also, I think one of the reasons why there's so many shootout games is because of the refs allowing teams to get back into games with their calls. Most games you can bet on who'll get the next penalty based on the score, despite what's actually going on.

 

Compared to other sports, I think MLB is fine, all they do is call "strike", "ball", "out", "safe", "fair", or "foul". There's isn't too much umps can do on their own to effect the outcome. It's pretty much one way or the other, and 99.9999% of the time they're right. The players effect the outcome.

 

Football, they only have 5, 10, or 15 yard penalties, or pass intereference. Similar to Baseball, I think 99.9999% of the time they're right, and the players effect the outcome. Moving up 5 or 10 yards doesn't make a huge difference when the field is 100 yards. It's not like giving a team 2 minutes to fire shots at the net for a slight little hook or hold.

 

Basketball, I have no opinion because I don't watch.

I don't think you watch baseball and football, either.  

 

Baseball is horrible.  I'll give the umps a break on close ball and strike calls, but if they're pissed at a player, they can call a pitch a good 6" in or out of the zone wrong, and they blow calls at bases all the time.  The field umpires have relatively simple jobs.  Put your eyes on the base, decide if the ball or the runner got their first.  Watch the baseline, decide which side the ball lands on.  They blow it on a regular basis.

 

Football is just as bad.  There have been some absolutely horrific calls made over the last few years to the point where the NFL has apologized to teams.  There are a ton of officials on the field, each with a specific job, and most of them still can't get it right.

 

Hockey you have 2 refs watching 10 players who spend most of the time moving instead of standing around like baseball and football, having to make more decisions.  I think that if you could go through and evaluate 10,000 random plays from the 4 major sports, hockey would have at least as high, if not higher, percentage of correct calls as the others.


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#53 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:00 PM

Ok my first post in about a year...
 
I think the NHL officiating is horrible, the worst in pro sports. I find it hard to take hockey serious sometimes because the refs have too much effect on momentum and the outcome of the game. Sometimes they have more of an effect then the players do, which I think is a problem. Then there's making calls based on the score. I seriously think something needs to be done, a different system needs to be put in place, or they even need to rethink if 2 minutes for some minor calls like a little hook or hold is too much time. I don't understand why the League allows the refs to have this big of an effect on the game, unless they use it as a way to keep teams close in the standings for their parity. I wouldn't be surprised one day if I heard the League controls who wins and loses with their officiating.
 
Also, I think one of the reasons why there's so many shootout games is because of the refs allowing teams to get back into games with their calls. Most games you can bet on who'll get the next penalty based on the score, despite what's actually going on.
 
Compared to other sports, I think MLB is fine, all they do is call "strike", "ball", "out", "safe", "fair", or "foul". There's isn't too much umps can do on their own to effect the outcome. It's pretty much one way or the other, and 99.9999% of the time they're right. The players effect the outcome.
 
Football, they only have 5, 10, or 15 yard penalties, or pass intereference. Similar to Baseball, I think 99.9999% of the time they're right, and the players effect the outcome. Moving up 5 or 10 yards doesn't make a huge difference when the field is 100 yards. It's not like giving a team 2 minutes to fire shots at the net for a slight little hook or hold.
 
Basketball, I have no opinion because I don't watch.

I agree with this. I'm also a hardcore baseball fan and I don't get nearly as pissed off, or as often, as I do with hockey when it comes to calls. Can't speak for football, basketball I however find to be a joke sometimes.

#54 Playmaker

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:40 PM

I agree with this. I'm also a hardcore baseball fan and I don't get nearly as pissed off, or as often, as I do with hockey when it comes to calls. Can't speak for football, basketball I however find to be a joke sometimes.

Baseball really doesn't have "fouls" or penalties, so that may account for that. While the strike zone is somewhat open to interpretation, the majority of the other calls are pretty much black and white.  Safe or out, fair or foul, home run or not.

How does the phantom double play not bother people?  How about the Armando Gallaraga perfect game? I think the worst call I've ever seen is in baseball when the first baseman was at least two feet off the bag and the umpire called the runner out.  



#55 wings87

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:48 PM

My thought has always been that the officiating in the NHL is worse then other sports because Hockey isn't as popular there for it isn't shown on TV as much which leads to less outrage over bad calls (outside the Hockey community that is). And with less bad press regarding the officiating the NHL is not in a hurry to make changes. If the NHL had the popularity of the NFL- where every bad call is magnified, shown endlessly on ESPN, and talked about for days then I bet we would see changes come quick.


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#56 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:08 PM

Baseball really doesn't have "fouls" or penalties, so that may account for that. While the strike zone is somewhat open to interpretation, the majority of the other calls are pretty much black and white.  Safe or out, fair or foul, home run or not.
How does the phantom double play not bother people?  How about the Armando Gallaraga perfect game? I think the worst call I've ever seen is in baseball when the first baseman was at least two feet off the bag and the umpire called the runner out.  


It bugs me, especially if it's history being made like with Gallaraga (the game that introduced my fiancé to baseball, score) but for some reason I don't get nearly as mad with blown calls in baseball. I only come close when someone is tossed for no reason (see: Miguel Cabrera). There's just something about hockey's bad calls and how predictable they are that infuriate me.

#57 SDavis35

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:04 PM

 

So you want a different set of rules.  Which will benefit the teams that are more likely to throw cheap shots.  IMO, that attitude is stupid.  The rules are the rules.  If something is a call in the first 2 minutes, it should be a call in the last 2 minutes.  Either way the ref's decision affects the game.  If he makes the call, it benefits the team that should get a PP.  If he lets it go, it gives the team that committed the penalty an advantage where the other team was probably called for a similar penalty and had to kill a PP earlier in the game.  As a player I want consistency above all.  If you're going to call everything.  Fine, I'll know that.  If you're going to let things go, fine, I'll adjust my game accordingly.  But if you're going to let 6 blatant trips go and then call someone for tripping when a guy falls on his own, that's when I get pissed.

 

I'm not saying allow cheapshots. I'm saying a small hook that is totally inconsequential to the game is not a call needed. If I had my way with the official rule book, hooks would require to actually affect the play. ie. pulling the stick = hook, or grabbing the jersey=hold. You can't expect the refs to be perfect, but some of the penalties out there don't even affect the play anymore. Dangerous hits and all contact to the head should be penalties. Diving should be a call that no ref is afraid to make. 



#58 DickieDunn

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:51 AM

 

I'm not saying allow cheapshots. I'm saying a small hook that is totally inconsequential to the game is not a call needed. If I had my way with the official rule book, hooks would require to actually affect the play. ie. pulling the stick = hook, or grabbing the jersey=hold. You can't expect the refs to be perfect, but some of the penalties out there don't even affect the play anymore. Dangerous hits and all contact to the head should be penalties. Diving should be a call that no ref is afraid to make. 

Every hook affects the play in someway.  I know, I used to hook and hold all the time away from the play.  I hook you and slow you down a step, then you're not in position to make a play 3 seconds later, and the puck is cleared or someone has just enough room to make a play that leads to a goal for my team.  The bottom line is, if you keep your stick off of other players, you won't get called for that "inconsequential" hook.  And again, if they stop calling penalties except for the most egregious ones just because it's overtime, that's going to give the teams that are more prone to hooking and holding and interfering, usually the less talented ones, the advantage over the teams that have more skill.


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