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Guest DeGraa55

After looking at the correct stats(still Kip if in one of our many arguments actually showed the nhl stats this could've been corrected a long time ago, nothing like arguing and never stating/linking stats).

My top three defenseman still stay the same it's just now smith and dekeyser are switched. Which actually really surprised me. Many others, my self included, have often said dekeyser was more of a defensive guy. But he actually isn't based on those 5 on 5 stats. Or the goals per minute played stat(thanks for inventing this kip I'll use it regularly now).

Based on the eye test(I could be wrong) I believe our defense to forwards passing is much improved this year as well.

Which is why I'll continue to support my stance on that our defense and goaltending is fine. And the offense has been and will continue to be our biggest issue moving forward. I've been saying this for a couple years and I'll continue to say it.

The biggest thing the defense needs to

Improve on is scoring goals. Whether it's taking

More one timers or something else I'm not sure. But they need to score a few more goals.

We need a guy like Tatars mindset(shoot shoot shoot) but that can actually score 35+ a year.

Edited by DeGraa55

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Id do that trade as well but I don't think coyotes would.

Also forwards are the biggest issue so trading away Tatar might be the smartest.

First of all since you're an idiot it's "too dumb". Second you clearly can't properly read the link I posted. So if I'm "to dumb". What's that make you? LOL

Dumb enough to use that site lol oh and a grammar nazi

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After looking at the correct stats(still Kip if in one of our many arguments actually showed the nhl stats this could've been corrected a long time ago, nothing like arguing and never stating/linking stats).

Lol. Sure. And in the future I'll just debate hockey with myself since between the two of us I'm the only one who thought to look up disputed stats on the official NHL website rather than relying on some tertiary source and then sticking with it (obstinately) after the veracity of the stats was called into question.

And since it's my job to make sure you've got correct information before spewing your point of view forth, here's a helpful tip for future arguments: Don't use unofficial data if you don't want to be wrong. Everybody knows that. Now you do to.

Edited by kipwinger

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Lets be honest -- The eyeball test, your favorite players, and hated players all factor into the hows and whys of who and what we want for our team, but lets use the information that's available too. WE'RE IN THE AGE OF ANALYTICS! It's all out there to be had. Just make sure you use legit sources. Simple as that.

Some folks wouldn't trade Smith for anything. Some wouldn't trade Jurco or Tatar.

Hell, some of us are still lamenting the Calle Jarnkrok trade... it's why we're here.

To talk about the team we love. Good or bad.

Also, kip... if you're the President of the "Kindl4Prez" fanclub, can I at least be the treasurer. If he could just reign in the mistakes a bit, his value could be... well, at least decent.

Edited by e_prime

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Lets be honest -- The eyeball test, your favorite players, and hated players all factor into the hows and whys of who and what we want for our team, but lets use the information that's available too. WE'RE IN THE AGE OF ANALYTICS! It's all out there to be had. Just make sure you use legit sources. Simple as that.

Some folks wouldn't trade Smith for anything. Some wouldn't trade Jurco or Tatar.

Hell, some of us are still lamenting the Calle Jarnkrok trade... it's why we're here.

To talk about the team we love. Good or bad.

Also, kip... if you're the President of the "Kindl4Prez" fanclub, can I at least be the treasurer. If he could just reign in the mistakes a bit, his value could be... well, at least decent.

Well don't misunderstand me. I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded. He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids.

Can Jurco still go to GR?

Yes. He's still got minor league options.

Kindl will be a "solid" D-man on LGW by this time next year. Then we'll all hate him again after a bad pass at some point.

If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year. Catch-22.

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Well don't misunderstand me. I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded. He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids.

Yes. He's still got minor league options.

If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year. Catch-22.

I was mostly thinking about how much everyone used to dislike Ericsson, then he suddenly became a solid blue liner in LGWs eyes once Lids left. Now he's become slightly disliked again.

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Well don't misunderstand me. I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded. He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids.

Yes. He's still got minor league options.

If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year. Catch-22.

Trust me. I only want the treasurer's job as a temp spot. I'm in the same club as you. I think we've got a plethora of middling third pair defensemen. Ship Kindl off to Edmonton or somewhere else players won't typically go. He's signed at a reasonable price for some of those teams for another two years (?)

Hudler's been okay off the Wings. Same with Flip. I can't and won't lament the fact that they're no longer Wings, in the same way that I can't and won't obsess about how prospects that we've traded away are doing. Does it sometimes suck when the player turns out to be great... or is it simply that they're flourishing in a different system/actually given an opportunity. It's the way the business side of the game works. Simple. As. That.

I was mostly thinking about how much everyone used to dislike Ericsson, then he suddenly became a solid blue liner in LGWs eyes once Lids left. Now he's become slightly disliked again.

Ericsson isn't having the greatest of starts, but he's not as bad as some like to moan about.

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Trust me. I only want the treasurer's job as a temp spot. I'm in the same club as you. I think we've got a plethora of middling third pair defensemen. Ship Kindl off to Edmonton or somewhere else players won't typically go. He's signed at a reasonable price for some of those teams for another two years (?)

Hudler's been okay off the Wings. Same with Flip. I can't and won't lament the fact that they're no longer Wings, in the same way that I can't and won't obsess about how prospects that we've traded away are doing. Does it sometimes suck when the player turns out to be great... or is it simply that they're flourishing in a different system/actually given an opportunity. It's the way the business side of the game works. Simple. As. That.

Ericsson isn't having the greatest of starts, but he's not as bad as some like to moan about.

I agree. I said the same thing about Kindl and Smith the other day to krsmith. I think they would both be much better under a different coach's system. Babs doesn't want guys who wheel and deal and both those guys have skill sets conducive to a run and gun style of play. Babs wants guys like Lids, Kronwall, and Rafalski who are all smart, heads up, defensemen who add offense through point shots and great passing. Not Kind or Smith's game.

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I agree. I said the same thing about Kindl and Smith the other day to krsmith. I think they would both be much better under a different coach's system. Babs doesn't want guys who wheel and deal and both those guys have skill sets conducive to a run and gun style of play. Babs wants guys like Lids, Kronwall, and Rafalski who are all smart, heads up, defensemen who add offense through point shots and great passing. Not Kind or Smith's game.

The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing.

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The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing.

Truth

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The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing.

I agree. But that's part of the problem isn't it? Making average guys "look" good. Does anybody remember when Ian White was Lidstrom's partner, and everybody kept commenting that White "looks" like a top pairing guy when playing next to Lids? It was true, he "looked" fine. Trouble was, Ian White ISN'T a top pairing defenseman. And when the rubber hits the road he's going to play like a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy instead of a top pairing guy because that's what he is. He didn't become better by playing with Lidstrom. He mistakes were just less harmful.

That's the by-product of Babs' system. It can make Ericsson "look" like a number 2 defenseman. It can make Darren Helm "look" like a top six forward. And we all forget that ideally you don't want that. Babs' system can make underachievers competitive sure. But what happens when you run up against a team that's just as competitive, and has the right players in the right positions? You get spanked. Because an average player is an average player.

Mind you, none if that is Babs' fault. He plays with what he's got. If KH wants average top four defense play, he should keep the top four he has now. If he wants above average play, he needs better defensemen.

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An almost pure offensive defensemen might be the shot in the arm our forwards need. Give them a more pressing and aggressive approach to their game. Our whole team is pretty much 2-way. Nobody with an offence first mentality. This roster has the tools to be scoring a lot more


Guys like Smith making mistakes that are goals against is a lot harder to forgive on a count of him contributing 0 offence.


Also, teams that have high goals for per game don't do it without major contributions from the blue line. It's just not possible

Edited by joesuffP

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I agree. But that's part of the problem isn't it? Making average guys "look" good. Does anybody remember when Ian White was Lidstrom's partner, and everybody kept commenting that White "looks" like a top pairing guy when playing next to Lids? It was true, he "looked" fine. Trouble was, Ian White ISN'T a top pairing defenseman. And when the rubber hits the road he's going to play like a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy instead of a top pairing guy because that's what he is. He didn't become better by playing with Lidstrom. He mistakes were just less harmful.

That's the by-product of Babs' system. It can make Ericsson "look" like a number 2 defenseman. It can make Darren Helm "look" like a top six forward. And we all forget that ideally you don't want that. Babs' system can make underachievers competitive sure. But what happens when you run up against a team that's just as competitive, and has the right players in the right positions? You get spanked. Because an average player is an average player.

Mind you, none if that is Babs' fault. He plays with what he's got. If KH wants average top four defense play, he should keep the top four he has now. If he wants above average play, he needs better defensemen.

this

Edited by sjr2012

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Lines at today's practice:

Ansar Khan@AnsarKhanMLive 17m

17 minutes ago

Lines: Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen

Tatar-Sheahan-Abdelkader

Nestrasil-Helm-Cleary

Miller-Glendening-Andersson

Jurco-Weiss

I wish they'd either put Jurco in or send him back down, what are they doing with him?

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