Lines Thread

[e_prime 1,936]

I'm putting this here because I didn't want to start another thread. But did anybody else see Jim Nill absolutely fleece Doug Wilson on that Brendan Dillon for Jason Demers trade? Apparently if you've got a half assed hockey player, but he's bigger than 6'3 and 220 lbs. you should call the Sharks. Think they'd take Kindl lol?

Probably. Who's a top six forward on the Sharks you'd take? I dunno? Someone that's maybe too comfortable in San Jose?

[kipwinger 8,524]

Probably. Who's a top six forward on the Sharks you'd take? I dunno? Someone that's maybe too comfortable in San Jose?

We need a second line center. They've got a Jumbo one.

[e_prime 1,936]

"'scuse me while I... WHIP THIS OUT" You mean, that Jumbo one?

[kipwinger 8,524]

"'scuse me while I... WHIP THIS OUT" You mean, that Jumbo one?

When in doubt I whip it out, got me a rock n' roll band, IT'S A FREE FOR ALL!!!!

[joesuffP 1,746]

I'm hoping Weiss can take Cleary's spot on that third line soon.

With Alfredsson officially not returning to the Wings maybe Holland is more inclined to make a trade at this point of the season. Trading for defense is expensive and risky and a good winger would be a big help

[kipwinger 8,524]

I'm hoping Weiss can take Cleary's spot on that third line soon.

With Alfredsson officially not returning to the Wings maybe Holland is more inclined to make a trade at this point of the season. Trading for defense is expensive and risky and a good winger would be a big help

It's not expensive for Jim Nill apparently. For that guy, getting good defense is a simple as identifying the biggest one dimensional thinker in the Western Conference and giving him EXACTLY what he wants....a big stupid meathead.

[joesuffP 1,746]

It's not expensive for Jim Nill apparently. For that guy, getting good defense is a simple as identifying the biggest one dimensional thinker in the Western Conference and giving him EXACTLY what he wants....a big stupid meathead.

We'll see how it pans out

[kipwinger 8,524]

We'll see how it pans out

Sure, anything can happen. But all things being equal, you've got to admit that Jason Demers is a much better defenseman than Brenden Dillon, right?

[joesuffP 1,746]

Sure, anything can happen. But all things being equal, you've got to admit that Jason Demers is a much better defenseman than Brenden Dillon, right?

Yeah good trade. Adding a defensemen is tricky though. You never know how they'll be in a new system and with new teammates. That's why I've grown worrisome over adding a Myers or Bogosian type top 4. Could be a nightmare especially if we traded some quality assets. A real can't lose situation is if we picked up Yandle........ and signed Alfie

[trule23 119]

If Mantha ends up looking too good to stay in GR send Jurco back down to regain his goal touch.

Zetterberg Datsyuk Abdelkader

Nyquist Sheahan Franzen

Tatar Weiss Mantha

M G A

holland already said Mantha would play a top 6 role or stay in the AHL

[number9 3,297]

When in doubt I whip it out, got me a rock n' roll band, IT'S A FREE FOR ALL!!!!

+1 for uncle ted reference

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

holland already said Mantha would play a top 6 role or stay in the AHL

Yeah, but after that was said him and Babcock both corrected it to top 9, or a scoring line.

They just said they weren't going to call him up to be a fourth liner.

And WANGOOOOO TANGOOOOOO

[number9 3,297]

Yeah, but after that was said him and Babcock both corrected it to top 9, or a scoring line.

They just said they weren't going to call him up to be a fourth liner.

And WANGOOOOO TANGOOOOOO

WANG DANG SWEET POONTANG

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

WANG DANG SWEET POONTANG

Ha.

A bit off topic, but I went to a Michigan hockey camp when I was younger and a few of the guys had ppe on taped on their blades.(poontang pie eaters)

And I always wondered where it came from, i guess i was too young to connect the dots.

Funny nonetheless.

[_SP_ 129]

The Red Wings have some good prospects graduating over the next two years. Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, and Ouellet all will factor into the decision about whom to acquire and whom to move.

I like the idea of separating Zetterberg and Datsyuk when they're not on the power play.

? - Datsyuk - ?

? - Zetterberg - ?

? - Sheahan - ?

? - Glendening - ?

That's not bad at ALL down the middle. Let's fill in the pieces around them:

? - Datsyuk - ?

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Jurco - Sheahan - ?
Miller - Glendening - ?

? ?

Still looking at having to place Helm, Mantha, Tatar, Pulkkinen, and Abdelkader. Do you fill in another with a trade/free agent?

Defense...

Kronwall - ?
Ericsson - DeKeyser
? - ?

?

Still looking at having to place Smith, Ouellet, Quincey, Lashoff, and Sproul. Not including free agents/trades.

What does it cost the Red Wings to grab Mike Green? He's going to be a UFA after this year and the Capitals are strapped down on DEF with some high-priced contracts already. They also have some formidable defensemen in the pipeline.

Helm + Pulkkinen + ? = Green? Does it even cost THAT much?

The Red Wings would have to ask the Capitals to eat 28-30% of his salary, though, to make it work. Does that cost an additional pick? Prospect? Player?

What does it cost as far as putting a block in front of the people that are coming up the pipeline? Do you trade them, too?


There's a lot more that goes into acquiring players than simple A for B. There's opportunity cost AND salary cost.

[kipwinger 8,524]

The Red Wings have some good prospects graduating over the next two years. Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, and Ouellet all will factor into the decision about whom to acquire and whom to move.

I like the idea of separating Zetterberg and Datsyuk when they're not on the power play.

? - Datsyuk - ?

? - Zetterberg - ?

? - Sheahan - ?

? - Glendening - ?

That's not bad at ALL down the middle. Let's fill in the pieces around them:

? - Datsyuk - ?

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Jurco - Sheahan - ?

Miller - Glendening - ?

? ?

Still looking at having to place Helm, Mantha, Tatar, Pulkkinen, and Abdelkader. Do you fill in another with a trade/free agent?

Defense...

Kronwall - ?

Ericsson - DeKeyser

? - ?

?

Still looking at having to place Smith, Ouellet, Quincey, Lashoff, and Sproul. Not including free agents/trades.

What does it cost the Red Wings to grab Mike Green? He's going to be a UFA after this year and the Capitals are strapped down on DEF with some high-priced contracts already. They also have some formidable defensemen in the pipeline.

Helm + Pulkkinen + ? = Green? Does it even cost THAT much?

The Red Wings would have to ask the Capitals to eat 28-30% of his salary, though, to make it work. Does that cost an additional pick? Prospect? Player?

What does it cost as far as putting a block in front of the people that are coming up the pipeline? Do you trade them, too?

There's a lot more that goes into acquiring players than simple A for B. There's opportunity cost AND salary cost.

Good luck getting Dats and Z healthy at the same time. And should one of them get hurt, who takes over that center spot? This has been the problem for a couple years now. We don't have two reliable centers, even with Dats and Z on the team because they're both injury prone. I agree with your approach though, and hopefully Ken Holland is somewhere doing this exact thing. Sitting down and figuring out who slots where and who doesn't fit into the long term plan for the team.

[Dabura 12,207]

Good luck getting Dats and Z healthy at the same time. And should one of them get hurt, who takes over that center spot?

Ryan O'Reilly, IMHO.

Failing that, Franzen.

[_SP_ 129]

Always Franzen.

People aren't lining up to give away 2nd line centers, though. And we had one, in Legwand, and it didn't work. And it cost the team one of it's more highly-thought of prospects AND a pick. That's the kind of talent it's going to take to acquire another one, and there aren't really any 2nd line centers as UFA's at the end of this year (the typical player you can get in a trade in the middle of the season).

And to think, Legwand is playing top line minutes with the Senators and also playing on their power play... hmm... they're equal to the Red Wings anyway, at least looking at points (3 points behind with 2 fewer games played).

[_SP_ 129]

Let's take a look at pending free agent centers (typically the players you get in trades without selling the farm - ie. what it would cost to get ROR):

Brad Richards - Chicago's not giving him up because he's signed to a stupid cheap contract.

Shawn Horcoff - Not having a great season statistically or even in the eye test. More like a third-line guy.
Jarret Stoll - He is good on the PK along with Anze Kopitar and the Kings may not have room to re-sign him. Not a top-6 center, though.

Dan Briere - Age issue again. I don't believe he's playing center now anyway, I think he's on the wing?

Olli Jokinen - Along with the next three players, he's an eldersman on the Predators top-6. He's also old as ish and I don't think he's the guy we need.

Derek Roy - I think he's rather overrated, but what do I know. He's got 500+ career points, but only has two goals this year I believe?

Matt Cullen - He's been banged up, but he's traditionally been a top-6 center. Off my radar, personally. 38-years-old.
Mike Fisher - coming off Achilles' injury, he's not doing anything for us this year.

Antoine Vermette - Having a down year in Arizona, but I think that has more to do with the players around him. I'd target him.

Mike Ribeiro - I think he's still got what it takes to make a difference day in and day out. I would definitely want him for my 2nd line.

Then, though, we go back to what I said before - what's the opportunity cost? What does it cost the Red Wings to get the Predators' top center when they're the #1 ranked team in the West right now?

Vermette should be significantly cheaper, given how poorly Arizona (yuck) is playing right now. But what's the verdict - what would it take?

[Guest DeGraa55]

Always Franzen.

People aren't lining up to give away 2nd line centers, though. And we had one, in Legwand, and it didn't work. And it cost the team one of it's more highly-thought of prospects AND a pick. That's the kind of talent it's going to take to acquire another one, and there aren't really any 2nd line centers as UFA's at the end of this year (the typical player you can get in a trade in the middle of the season).

And to think, Legwand is playing top line minutes with the Senators and also playing on their power play... hmm... they're equal to the Red Wings anyway, at least looking at points (3 points behind with 2 fewer games played).

Ya I would've liked to have seen him back but we wouldn't of had room for cleary and the possibility of Alfie coming back.... So ya no room for a second line center who partially Carried us to the playoffs.

[joesuffP 1,746]

We already have a plethora of centers with Sheahan and maybe even Weiss on the verge of being a legit 2nd line center. Not to mention Datsyuk and Zetterberg. when dreaming up trades that I think are reasonable I always land on Pheonix being a good trading partner. Shane Doab would fit in nicely on the wing and only has one year left on his contract if I'm not mistaking. RH'd, big body, good shot, physical, great leader and would be one of our hardest workers

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Ya I would've liked to have seen him back but we wouldn't of had room for cleary and the possibility of Alfie coming back.... So ya no room for a second line center who partially Carried us to the playoffs.

Maybe I'm missing some sarcasm on Legwand. He did help us last year, but so glad we didn't bring him back. We already have too many centers and Z,D, Weiss, Legwand, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening would just be funny. Look at this year's numbers.

Legwand 19gp 2g 4a 6p

Helm 20gp 2g 5a 7p

Sheahan 20gp 3g 6a 9p

Edited November 24, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Guest DeGraa55]

Maybe I'm missing some sarcasm on Legwand. He did help us last year, but so glad we didn't bring him back. We already have too many centers and Z,D, Weiss, Legwand, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening would just be funny. Look at this year's numbers.

Legwand 19gp 2g 4a 6p

Helm 20gp 2g 5a 9p

Sheahan 20gp 3g 6a 9p

Well having a real second line center allows us to out z on dats wing.

Weiss and helm were HUGE question marks.

And I'm a huge Sheahan fan but he is third line center not second.

Helm is fourth liner not second and I woukdnt mind seen traded.

So yes I would've loved legwand back. Or possibly acquired spezza when he was traded. By allowing z to move to wing that means a top six winger wouldn't be the major priority that it is now.

Edited November 24, 2014 by DeGraa55

[krsmith17 7,191]

It's really going to be interesting to see what happens once everyone is healthy. I hope the best players play, but there's going to be some real tough decisions for management in the coming week or so, once Datsyuk, Weiss and Smith are healthy.

It's clear that Ouellet deserves a spot in the lineup, but do they decide to send him down once again, over losing another player to waivers? Unfortunately for Ouellet, I think they would. Is there a trade (involving Kindl) in the works? I hope so, but have my doubts.

Also who sits with an entire healthy group of forwards? Andersson would be my number one choice to sit, and then it would be between sitting Cleary and sending Jurco down for me. As much as I still believe Jurco would benefit from more time down in Grand Rapids, I think he is here to stay. So Cleary and Andersson would be my 13th and 14th forwards.

There's also Pulkkinen and Mantha that will be looking for a shot soon. Who is the first injury recall, assuming they both keep up their level of play? I think it should be Pulkkinen but wouldn't be surprised to see Mantha jump him either. A lot to be excited about in the near future, let's hope everything pans out the way us fans hope...

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Well having a real second line center allows us to out z on dats wing.

Weiss and helm were HUGE question marks.

And I'm a huge Sheahan fan but he is third line center not second.

Helm is fourth liner not second and I woukdnt mind seen traded.

So yes I would've loved legwand back. Or possibly acquired spezza when he was traded. By allowing z to move to wing that means a top six winger wouldn't be the major priority that it is now.

Agreed that a second line center would help the team, but Weiss was supposed to be that and you'd have to get rid of him before you and another.

My point in showing this year's stats is that Helm and Sheahan are out producing Legwand. Helm isn't even playing very well and he's still out producing him. That's with Legwand apparently playing top line minutes. That doesn't sound like he would be a "real second line center." I wasn't suggesting that Helm or Sheahan are 2nd line centers - I was showing that Legwand wouldn't be a good option for that spot either.

Edited November 24, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk