Lines Thread

[wings4thecup06 504]

Personally, they have to do something about Kindl, but it's pretty obvious that they have been unable to move him thus far - every time Ouellet is recalled Kindly is benched, so if they could have moved him by now they would have, and XO would be playing every night. He's more than capable and has proven himself more than ready.

So if we can't rrade Kindl, then do we just have to waive him and send him to GR (assuming he clears - his salary is probably high enough to prohibit anyone from actually wanting to claim him)?

It's a really tough spot for KH, because everyone knows that XO is the better player.

But if he keeps playing the way he did against Buffalo the other night, how on earth is he ever going to be traded? Except in a deal with a team whereby we ship him and a draft pick in exchange for the other team taking him on and his salary?

[Echolalia 2,961]

My only issue here is... do we really know this? Don't get me wrong, I do think he'd have issues on the PP, but do we really have an idea of what he looks like on the PP? Last season, I believe he played the left point with Kronwall, before they started using the 1-3-1 formation - he never really got the chance to man the point. Leaves you wondering what he looks like in practice on the PP, and perhaps that being the reason Babcock has kept him off of it.

I see Smith's passing as a plus - I think he passes the puck accurately, and fairly quickly. IT does the PP good to get the puck around quick. One of the things they mentioned early on is that they weren't opening anything up, because the distribution was too slow.

On the flipside, I see Smith's pass reception and puck handling skills as a minus, which, tied to the part of your post that I underlined could cause all kinds of fun problems if he's manning the blueline. I swear, every time I see him receive a pass, I worry a little. He's gotten better, but I always have visions of the puck bouncing off his stick, and then him scrambling to recover it. He also seems to have a tendency to whiff on his passes sometimes. When he does those things in the defensive zone, he's got some time to recover. If the PK forwards are playing him tight at the point... yikes. Maybe we were saying the same thing here.

That being said, I'd still like to see him on there over Kindl for sure. I can assume he's going to have these issues on the point, but they've given him something like 10 minutes of PP time total, all season. I mean, I think it's an option worth exploring, at least.

You're right, we don't know for sure; I'm primarily speculating as to why Babs hasn't played him on the PP, and I'm basing it on his production and how he has historically been able to generate scoring chances and points, as well as what hasn't been working for him. I think Smith has the best vision of the ice out of all our defenders. He is good at exploiting holes in the defense, which is where most of his chances come from, and like you mentioned he can move the puck well. Firing bombs from the point isn't something he's all that good at, yet. In a 1-3-1 moving the puck is important, but if you can't get the puck to the net from the high defender point, it's going to cripple the whole set up. Kindl isn't as creative offensively, but he can put the puck on the net through traffic. That forces the high forward on the other team to play higher up and tighter to Kindl because they don't want that shot getting through, and that potentially opens up our slot man who would otherwise be more tightly covered. This has been key for our PP. Like I said, I'm speculating here based on the fact that Smith isn't getting PP time, as well as how his production has typically occurred, but I don't think Smith is good at getting the puck through. This allows the shorthanded team to cheat a little more to our slot man and it eliminates our options. But again, I'm just taking a stab in the dark.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Smith isn't defensively responsible enough to handle pressure as a lone defensemen if we were to get pinned in our end.

I think that's the reason.

Its simple.

It works.

Its pretty true.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Smith isn't defensively responsible enough to handle pressure as a lone defensemen if we were to get pinned in our end.

I think that's the reason.

Its simple.

It works.

Its pretty true.

If that was the main reason we wouldn't see Kindl on the powerplay either, who's a couple steps behind Smith when it comes to defensive responsibility.

[joesuffP 1,746]

I think it's his responsibility to hold the puck and make smart decisions at the blue line. A little indecisiveness and we give up a breakaway

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Kindl doesn't skate down past the circles to make plays very much.

Smith van be found pinching in the corners sometimes

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I think it's his responsibility to hold the puck and make smart decisions at the blue line. A little indecisiveness and we give up a breakaway

I agree about the responsibility but still don't understand how Smith is somehow worse than Kindl in that regard. This last game we saw Kindl move in from the point and rocket a slapshot into traffic that was blocked and led to a 2 on 0 breakaway that resulted in a goal.

As the lone man back I have no idea what he was thinking. If you're going to move that deep into the zone you can't take a huge windup on a team that's been tremendous at blocking shots all game long.

[joesuffP 1,746]

I agree about the responsibility but still don't understand how Smith is somehow worse than Kindl in that regard. This last game we saw Kindl move in from the point and rocket a slapshot into traffic that was blocked and led to a 2 on 0 breakaway that resulted in a goal.

As the lone man back I have no idea what he was thinking. If you're going to move that deep into the zone you can't take a huge windup on a team that's been tremendous at blocking shots all game long.

Both make mistakes and I just think Babs views Kindl as the lesser of the two evils. Kindl does have more poise with the puck imo. When either of them are having a bad game anything could happen and it wouldn't surprise me

[Dabura 12,207]

Sometimes I think this team has too much depth, and it creates situations where guys are playing out of their roles. I hate to use the phrase "trim the fat", but I think that's exactly what this team should do going into next season. Depending on performances, I think it would be smart to put together a package for a top 4 defender at the deadline.

I'd like to preface this by saying I'm not anti-Mule by any means, but I do think that Pulkkinen, Mantha and perhaps AA will be knocking on the door soon. My ideal (and totally unrealistic, because people probably wouldn't take on Mule's contract) package would be Franzen, Helm and Smith for someone like Green or Yandle. Some might think it's a little steep for a rental like Green, and I highly doubt it's even enough for Yandle in Arizona's eyes, but I think Detroit could retain Green next season and Yandle's got term. I'd put Kindl in there instead of Smith, but that doesn't solve freeing up a spot for Ouellet, and no one wants Kindl. The best we can hope to get for Kindl is a burnt, grilled cheese sandwich. Anyway, the whole point is to free up some space - better define roles on the team. I'd like to go into next season with something like this:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist

Jurco-Weiss-Pulkkinen

Miller-Glendening-Callahan

Andersson, Ferraro/Burnt Grilled Cheese Sandwich

Kronwall-Ericsson

DeKeyser-Green/Yandle

Ouellet-Quincey

Lashoff

Howard

Mrazek

I'm sure this is all for naught, but I'm tired of seeing Helm pushed into scoring winger roles because we have proper center depth, and I think Mule becomes expendable very soon. This whole scenario might be a little kooky, but I've had like three candy cane hot chocolates, so whatever.

I dunno. I'm jonesing for a big trade, but if Helm and Franzen are our most expendable forwards, then we're in pretty good shape. And, realistically, Holland couldn't get much for those two even if he wanted to. I mean, that's not me trying to knock them, I'm just saying - I can't imagine there's much trade value between the two of them. And are we really that eager to move Helm so we can bring in...Mitch Callahan? A fourth-line winger who can't play center, can't skate like Helm, probably can't work like Helm can in a top-six role, isn't significantly bigger than Helm or Glendening, and has all of nine minutes of NHL experience? I get that Helm being pushed into a winger role is maybe less than ideal, and I get that Franzen is streaky and way past his prime, but replacing those two with Callahan and Pulkkinen doesn't really make us a better team. I know the idea is we'd be getting Yandle or Green, but, again, little trade value. If we're being honest, Yandle is going to cost at least one of Nyquist/Tatar/Mantha, and giving Franzen and/or Helm to a conference rival for a rental who's almost inevitably going to make a killing in free agency (and/or circle back to the Caps, meaning we will have given the Caps Franzen and/or Helm for nothing, unless we manage to win the Cup) doesn't strike me as smart asset management.

I think if we're going to get anything of real worth for a guy like Franzen, our trade partner probably needs to be very short on high-end goal-scorers but good enough that they're maybe one goal-scorer away from being one of the few truly elite teams in the league. So...Nashville? Ryan Ellis?

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Everytime I come in here I secretly hope to see a post from Blue Adams...

[Dabura 12,207]

Word on the street is the Wild might be desperate for a competent depth defenseman. Ballard's absence is hurting them, Prosser/Falk/Folin = meh, Blum hasn't earned a spot, and Dumba needs more time in the minors. Kenny should be all over this.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Everytime I come in here I secretly hope to see a post from Blue Adams...

Probably never going to happen. I'm still waiting for Mindfly to show up in the GDT threads. I heard Carey Price is not doing so good.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

No way that Weiss should be on line 4.

Probably never going to happen. I'm still waiting for Mindfly to show up in the GDT threads. I heard Carey Price is not doing so good.

Mindfly was actually banned a few years ago.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

No way that Weiss should be on line 4.

Mindfly was actually banned a few years ago.

I know, but I figured the blacklist would have been removed by now. He was one angry guy lol.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Word on the street is the Wild might be desperate for a competent depth defenseman. Ballard's absence is hurting them, Prosser/Falk/Folin = meh, Blum hasn't earned a spot, and Dumba needs more time in the minors. Kenny should be all over this.

We've got exactly three competent defenseman, and none of them are depth guys. I don't know who we could spare that they'd want.

[Dabura 12,207]

We've got exactly three competent defenseman, and none of them are depth guys. I don't know who we could spare that they'd want.

Kindl or Lashoff. Unlikely they'd go for either of those two, but if they're looking for essentially a third-pairing defenseman who's more than a facepuncher, you've got to at least talk to them.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 5m

5 minutes ago

Kindl has been placed on short term IR (7 days) with sprained elbow. They'll probably recall Ouellet.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 5m

5 minutes ago

Kindl has been placed on short term IR (7 days) with sprained elbow. They'll probably recall Ouellet.

Also from KAHN!!!!!!!

Lines same;

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Franzen-Helm-Nyquist

Miller-Glendening-Weiss

Andersson, Cleary rotating in

Because that worked so well last game.

Oh wait, I forgot. Babcock's going to yell at them and tell them to work harder.

[e_prime 1,936]

No way that Weiss should be on line 4.

Mindfly was actually banned a few years ago.

For as much as Babs changes up the lines... you'd think he'd have made it off the fourth line.

Is Eva still floating around these parts? ...or an official Flames fan now? The blind Hudler love was mindboggling.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Franzen-Helm-Nyquist

Miller-Glendening-Weiss

Because that worked so well last game.

Oh wait, I forgot. Babcock's going to yell at them and tell them to work harder.

I feel like it's a bit of a conundrum, though. I actually like the look of those lines on paper (except Weiss on the 4th line). What do we change?

-We could swap Weiss and Helm, but I feel like Helm's been playing well.

-We could put Weiss in Franzen's spot, let Franzen sit a game and give Cleary a spot on the 4th, but we know that won't happen.

Or we could do the big jumble and reunite some lines that have worked in the past:

Franzen-Z-Nyquist (worked last year. Mule shouldn't be rewarded with 1st line duties, but these lines are spread out and less hierarchical)

Tats-Shea-Abby

Weiss-Dats-Helm (our too many Cs line worked when Dats came back from injury)

Miller-Glen-Jurco (Jurco on the 4th looks ugly, but this line had some good push earlier)

[Rick D 350]

I feel like it's a bit of a conundrum, though. I actually like the look of those lines on paper (except Weiss on the 4th line). What do we change?

-We could swap Weiss and Helm, but I feel like Helm's been playing well.

-We could put Weiss in Franzen's spot, let Franzen sit a game and give Cleary a spot on the 4th, but we know that won't happen.

Or we could do the big jumble and reunite some lines that have worked in the past:

Franzen-Z-Nyquist (worked last year. Mule shouldn't be rewarded with 1st line duties, but these lines are spread out and less hierarchical)

Tats-Shea-Abby

Weiss-Dats-Helm (our too many Cs line worked when Dats came back from injury)

Miller-Glen-Jurco (Jurco on the 4th looks ugly, but this line had some good push earlier)

I'd make one change to those lines:

Franzen - Z - Nyquist

Tats - Shea - Jurco

Weiss - Dats - Helm

Miller - Glen - Abby

Let the grinders grind.

Abby would add a little bit of a scoring touch to the 4th too.

Babs rolls that 4th line so often it wouldn't really be like a demotion for him.

[Dabura 12,207]

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Wings are (or, might be?) interested in Antoine Vermette. Not sure how that'd work. I guess Helm would be the odd (center)man out...? Or does Juco just get sent down?

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/669378

[rick zombo 3,739]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 5m

5 minutes ago

Kindl has been placed on short term IR (7 days) with sprained elbow. They'll probably recall Ouellet.

Ouellet has been recalled

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/12/30/7469237/xavier-ouellet-recalled-by-detroit

[e_prime 1,936]

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Wings are (or, might be?) interested in Antoine Vermette. Not sure how that'd work. I guess Helm would be the odd (center)man out...? Or does Juco just get sent down?

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/669378

...a bit off topic, but from that same Friedman piece:

He was not selected the first year he was eligible to be drafted. Detroit took him a year later, 121st overall in 2008. Nyquist said the Red Wings were the only team ever to request an interview with him. That process is why he’s not comfortable saying he’s landed in the NHL for good. “I’ve taken a spot, but I never want to say I feel safe for a spot.”

That's some humility right there.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Wings are (or, might be?) interested in Antoine Vermette. Not sure how that'd work. I guess Helm would be the odd (center)man out...? Or does Juco just get sent down?

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/669378

I like Vermette, but I don't see the fit with the Red Wings. I think the Wings are pretty well set with two-way centers and Vermette would probably be a costly rental player. Just seems like an odd interest for Detroit, given Vermette doesn't really address any of their biggest needs.