Lines Thread

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'll admit, I don't know much about any of the bottom 4 guys, other than Postma, who played quite a bit of hockey in the minor league here with the St. John's IceCaps. But Klingberg and Savard are kinda intriguing based on their stats this season. I doubt either would command a ton in a trade, but like I said, I have no idea what any of these guys are worth...

[kipwinger 8,492]

Is Klingberg really much of an upgrade over Jensen/Marchenko/Sproul?

From what I can tell, he's Dallas' version of Ouellet, in the sense that he's ready to play NHL hockey right now. And he shoots right. As far as the other three I'd say this:

He's probably got more offensive upside at the NHL level than Jensen because Jensen doesn't have a great point shot...Klingberg seems to.

He's an offensive defenseman, so the comparison to Marchenko is shaky. They're not really the same animal.

He's probably got the same, or a little less offensive upside than Sproul. But he's ready now, and Sproul isn't. Also, he's much skinnier than Sproul and would need to put on weight to have the defensive upside that Sproul has.

Again, just my assessment. I'd go to Nill with Ouellet and a 3rd to start the negotiation and go from there.

I'll admit, I don't know much about any of the bottom 4 guys, other than Postma, who played quite a bit of hockey in the minor league here with the St. John's IceCaps. But Klingberg and Savard are kinda intriguing based on their stats this season. I doubt either would command a ton in a trade, but like I said, I have no idea what any of these guys are worth...

Neither did I. I basically just looked up right shooters on bad teams, and then started unpacking the stats, ice time, scouting reports, and commentary on them. I didn't know much about the last four either...before today. But figured it would be a worthwhile endeavor to see what was out there beyond the usual Myers, Green, Yandle, etc. crap.

Edited January 9, 2015 by kipwinger

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Based upon my exhaustive search of the league's worst teams I've come up with a comprehensive list of right handed defensemen that could be targeted at the trade deadline. (I have very little to do at work today)

Known Knowns: Wisniewski, Barrie, Petry, Spurgeon

Out of the Blue: John Klingberg*, David Savard

Depth: Nate Prosser, Paul Postma

*Klingberg is who I'd target. While he seems to factor into Dallas' future, I think you could get Nill to come off him for a reasonable package centered around our good young defensemen (considering Nill helped draft our good young defensemen).

Out of these guys, I think Wisniewski, Klingberg and Petry would be my top 3 choices. That's if availability and other circumstances weren't in the way.

I'm not sure about the availability of Wisniewski, Barrie and Klingberg. I don't think there's a chance that Wisniewski ever comes here, based on his comments when he signed with Columbus. Barrie and Klingberg seem too important to their teams moving forward, IMO. Perhaps if Stefan Elliott was playing better, Colorado might be more receptive to moving Barrie, but as of right now I think he's part of their core on the blueline. If there's another team in this league who needs RHD as much as Detroit, I would say it's Dallas. Before they acquired Demers, they were in the same situation as Detroit on the back end.

Savard, Petry and Spurgeon seem the more likely to be moved. Savard, I would say, is more of a longshot than the other two. He's played some big minutes for Columbus and still has a year left at 1.3 million. I only think he's more expendable than the three guys I mentioned previously because Columbus has a few more pieces on defense than Colorado and Dallas. I think Spurgeon could be moved, if only because Minny has Dumba and Folin to fill in behind him. They could use a shake-up there, for sure. I would be absolutely shocked if Petry wasn't moved.

Prosser and Postma, I honestly have no interest in. I don't think they'd be worth spending assets on.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Jesusberg

[krsmith17 7,191]

If we're going to look at Barrie in Colorado, why not go for a home run with Erik Johnson. That's a player I'd love to have. I know, I know, you were trying to keep it realistic. No way Kenny goes after any of the big fish. And probably for good reason. The asking price would be insane for someone like Johnson. Definitely a hell of a lot more than I'd want to give up in a trade...

[e_prime 1,936]

*Klingberg is who I'd target. While he seems to factor into Dallas' future, I think you could get Nill to come off him for a reasonable package centered around our good young defensemen (considering Nill helped draft our good young defensemen).

Only if Nill also agrees to take Kindl.

Anyone have any interest in Franson?

What do you think the likelihood is that he will re-sign with Toronto seeing how they're such a huge mess?

Probably not to us, but do you think he's likely traded if they can't get him to agree to an extension?

Edited January 9, 2015 by e_prime

[krsmith17 7,191]

I've said numerous times how much I'd love to have Franson on this team. But like you said, no way he is traded to Detroit.

[kipwinger 8,492]

If we're going to look at Barrie in Colorado, why not go for a home run with Erik Johnson. That's a player I'd love to have. I know, I know, you were trying to keep it realistic. No way Kenny goes after any of the big fish. And probably for good reason. The asking price would be insane for someone like Johnson. Definitely a hell of a lot more than I'd want to give up in a trade...

Only if Nill also agrees to take Kindl.

Anyone have any interest in Franson?

What do you think the likelihood is that he will re-sign with Toronto seeing how they're such a huge mess?

Probably not to us, but do you think he's likely traded if they can't get him to agree to an extension?

I was basically trying to identify options that people hadn't talked about already, and who were in the realm of possibility. I agree that neither Barrie or Wisniewski are likely to be moved, and only included them because their teams are absolutely horrible. That usually makes teams willing to listen a little more than they might otherwise prefer to, but agree that it would take a lot to pry them out.

As far as Franson, I didn't put him on the list because A) We're all aware that he's availabe, and B) We're in the same division, and C) Toronto might just make the playoffs (and therefore keep him). But yes, I'd have interest in Franson (as would everyone else in the league).

Out of these guys, I think Wisniewski, Klingberg and Petry would be my top 3 choices. That's if availability and other circumstances weren't in the way.

I'm not sure about the availability of Wisniewski, Barrie and Klingberg. I don't think there's a chance that Wisniewski ever comes here, based on his comments when he signed with Columbus. Barrie and Klingberg seem too important to their teams moving forward, IMO. Perhaps if Stefan Elliott was playing better, Colorado might be more receptive to moving Barrie, but as of right now I think he's part of their core on the blueline. If there's another team in this league who needs RHD as much as Detroit, I would say it's Dallas. Before they acquired Demers, they were in the same situation as Detroit on the back end.

Savard, Petry and Spurgeon seem the more likely to be moved. Savard, I would say, is more of a longshot than the other two. He's played some big minutes for Columbus and still has a year left at 1.3 million. I only think he's more expendable than the three guys I mentioned previously because Columbus has a few more pieces on defense than Colorado and Dallas. I think Spurgeon could be moved, if only because Minny has Dumba and Folin to fill in behind him. They could use a shake-up there, for sure. I would be absolutely shocked if Petry wasn't moved.

Prosser and Postma, I honestly have no interest in. I don't think they'd be worth spending assets on.

I generally agree with your assessments across the board. Except that I'd say this: Wisniewski's "comments" have been overblown on LGW since he made them. His exact quote was something like "in my experience...um...uh...they (Detroit) don't usually pay market value...um...so I was looking elsewhere", or something to that effect. Afterward those moderately critical (and totally true) comments morphed thereafter into "I don't want to play for that cheapskate Ken Holland". I have no doubt that Wisniewski, or Kesler, or Rafalski, or Gordie Howe would accept a trade here if his contract was guaranteed already and our team was better than the one they were on. Such is the case with Wisniewski.

[number9 3,297]

I was basically trying to identify options that people hadn't talked about already, and who were in the realm of possibility. I agree that neither Barrie or Wisniewski are likely to be moved, and only included them because their teams are absolutely horrible. That usually makes teams willing to listen a little more than they might otherwise prefer to, but agree that it would take a lot to pry them out.

As far as Franson, I didn't put him on the list because A) We're all aware that he's availabe, and B) We're in the same division, and C) Toronto might just make the playoffs (and therefore keep him). But yes, I'd have interest in Franson (as would everyone else in the league).

I generally agree with your assessments across the board. Except that I'd say this: Wisniewski's "comments" have been overblown on LGW since he made them. His exact quote was something like "in my experience...um...uh...they (Detroit) don't usually pay market value...um...so I was looking elsewhere", or something to that effect. Afterward those moderately critical (and totally true) comments morphed thereafter into "I don't want to play for that cheapskate Ken Holland". I have no doubt that Wisniewski, or Kesler, or Rafalski, or Gordie Howe would accept a trade here if his contract was guaranteed already and our team was better than the one they were on. Such is the case with Wisniewski.

Not to mention THE WIZ "WHITE LIGHTNING" WISNIEWSKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiii grew up a Red Wings fan.

[kipwinger 8,492]

Not to mention THE WIZ "WHITE LIGHTNING" WISNIEWSKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiii grew up a Red Wings fan.

I remember when he was a free agent and a common refrain was "I don't want Wisniewski. He's bad in his own zone and he's asking for too much money".

That was before we gave Kyle Quincey 4.8 million dollars to be a worse Brad Stuart. And before a right shooting, powerplay quarterback, who can move the puck from the back end (e.g. James Wisniewski) became our White Whale.

Oh how the times have changed.

[number9 3,297]

I remember when he was a free agent and a common refrain was "I don't want Wisniewski. He's bad in his own zone and he's asking for too much money".

That was before we gave Kyle Quincey 4.8 million dollars to be a worse Brad Stuart. And before a right shooting, powerplay quarterback, who can move the puck from the back end (e.g. James Wisniewski) became our White Whale.

Oh how the times have changed.

Besides Karlsson, Wiz is probably the best O Dman out there right now. His rights were traded though. We never really had a real shot at bringing him on. We and he don't know what the wings would have offered. He played it safe and signed with CBJ before July 1

[rick zombo 3,739]

I remember when he was a free agent and a common refrain was "I don't want Wisniewski. He's bad in his own zone and he's asking for too much money".

That was before we gave Kyle Quincey 4.8 million dollars to be a worse Brad Stuart. And before a right shooting, powerplay quarterback, who can move the puck from the back end (e.g. James Wisniewski) became our White Whale.

Oh how the times have changed.

I still don't want the pointy faced little prick.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I was basically trying to identify options that people hadn't talked about already, and who were in the realm of possibility. I agree that neither Barrie or Wisniewski are likely to be moved, and only included them because their teams are absolutely horrible. That usually makes teams willing to listen a little more than they might otherwise prefer to, but agree that it would take a lot to pry them out.

As far as Franson, I didn't put him on the list because A) We're all aware that he's availabe, and B) We're in the same division, and C) Toronto might just make the playoffs (and therefore keep him). But yes, I'd have interest in Franson (as would everyone else in the league).

I generally agree with your assessments across the board. Except that I'd say this: Wisniewski's "comments" have been overblown on LGW since he made them. His exact quote was something like "in my experience...um...uh...they (Detroit) don't usually pay market value...um...so I was looking elsewhere", or something to that effect. Afterward those moderately critical (and totally true) comments morphed thereafter into "I don't want to play for that cheapskate Ken Holland". I have no doubt that Wisniewski, or Kesler, or Rafalski, or Gordie Howe would accept a trade here if his contract was guaranteed already and our team was better than the one they were on. Such is the case with Wisniewski.

Fair point. I just wonder if Holland would look past it, more than anything. Would he bring in a guy who said he doesn't pay players what they're worth? For some reason, I can see the phrase, "We're not sure he's a good fit for our team" coming from Holland.

You're right, though. Wiz already has his money, so that part of it wouldn't get in the way.

[number9 3,297]

WIZ a tough start to his career. He played on numerous different teams and never had a chance to come into his own until he got to MTL. It was understandable that he was looking for his first big pay day and some stability on a long contract.

[e_prime 1,936]

I remember when he was a free agent and a common refrain was "I don't want Wisniewski. He's bad in his own zone and he's asking for too much money".

That was before we gave Kyle Quincey 4.8 million dollars to be a worse Brad Stuart. And before a right shooting, powerplay quarterback, who can move the puck from the back end (e.g. James Wisniewski) became our White Whale.

Oh how the times have changed.

I was not part of that chorus. Goddamn! How I wanted him here.

I didn't care about how bad he was in his own zone OR how much money he wanted.

...and yes, now that we have hindsight, it makes it even worse.

We can only hope that somehow Ken Holland goes bats*** crazy and sets out with the intensity that Ahab did after Moby Dick to get us that elusive RH Defenseman!

[kipwinger 8,492]

I still don't want the pointy faced little prick.

Is his face pointy? I'd never noticed.

Edit: I suppose he does look a bit angular here...

Edited January 9, 2015 by kipwinger

[e_prime 1,936]

Is his face pointy? I'd never noticed.

Edit: I suppose he does look a bit angular here...

The faux-hawk will always do it to ya.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

OK, which one of you asked Ansar this question. You little superstar, you.

Q: What exactly is it in (Kyle) Quincey's game that gets him top-four minutes? I play hockey at a very high level so I know what's going on and I 100 percent honestly don't see why Quincey continues to get top-four minutes, let alone even play every night. - Kelly

[Echolalia 2,961]

OK, which one of you asked Ansar this question. You little superstar, you.

Q: What exactly is it in (Kyle) Quincey's game that gets him top-four minutes? I play hockey at a very high level so I know what's going on and I 100 percent honestly don't see why Quincey continues to get top-four minutes, let alone even play every night. - Kelly

Lol probably someone who's a ringer on a D league hockey squad.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Lol probably someone who's a ringer on a D league hockey squad.

That's genius. Although to his credit, Quincey has been excellent this season. Babs is right. He and DK have been the best defensive pairing out there night in night out

[kipwinger 8,492]

If the second pair is just going to be a shutdown pair anyway, and provide relatively little offense, what do you guys think about moving dekeyser up with knonwall, and putting Ericsson with Quincey? I agree that Q and dekeyser have been good defensively, but if we can't figure out a transition game then I think we are going to continue to struggle.

[Dabura 12,206]

If the second pair is just going to be a shutdown pair anyway, and provide relatively little offense, what do you guys think about moving dekeyser up with knonwall, and putting Ericsson with Quincey? I agree that Q and dekeyser have been good defensively, but if we can't figure out a transition game then I think we are going to continue to struggle.

My concern there is it takes away our steadiest pairing (which, granted, isn't saying much) and gives us two third pairings. Kronwall carries Ericsson, DeKeyser carries Quincey, so...our shutdown pair is the two guys who need to be carried by superior puck-movers? That sounds like a possession black hole. Lots of shot-blocking and hitting and shutting down and defending, sure, but only because they'd never have the puck.

But really, any way you arrange it, our D corps just isn't good enough. Replacing Kindl with Petry would be a start, I guess.

Kronwall Petry

DeKeyser Quincey

Smith Ericsson

God, our blue line. woof. Seriously. woof.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

If the second pair is just going to be a shutdown pair anyway, and provide relatively little offense, what do you guys think about moving dekeyser up with knonwall, and putting Ericsson with Quincey? I agree that Q and dekeyser have been good defensively, but if we can't figure out a transition game then I think we are going to continue to struggle.

I know this isn't going to be popular with anyone except for krsmith, but I'd actually try Smith up with Kronwall. If it blows up, switch it back. Isn't the definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Kronwall-Ericsson isn't working - they've got 6 even strength points together, and they're not exactly a defensive stalwart. I think throwing Smith up there might actually generate some offense, and perhaps showcase him for a trade (krsmith won't like this part).

Ericsson just can't seem to keep it together this year. I like the idea of balancing pairs, regardless of where they're supposed to fit, (Top 4 vs. Top 6, etc.) but Ericsson hasn't brought much balance to the pair up to this point. Honestly, I would try DeKeyser up there with Kronwall as well, but I think trying this first kind of gauges where Smith is at, and also leaves our strongest pair together (for now).

Edited January 12, 2015 by Jesusberg

[nawein 324]

But really, any way you arrange it, our D corps just isn't good enough. Replacing Kindl with Petry would be a start, I guess.

Kronwall Petry

DeKeyser Quincey

Smith Ericsson

God, our blue line. woof. Seriously. woof.

This is why I think we should make two moves that I think are actually doable and we have the assets for. Kindl+a mid round pick for Zidlicky, and Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen for Yandle. It might take more to get Yandle but we have 5 really solid D prospects and I wouldn't be opposed to moving one of Marchenko/Jensen/Backman in this deal as well. This would be the ensuing (healthy) lineup.

Gus-Z-Abby

Tatar-Pav-Weiss

Jurco-Sheahan-Franzen

Miller-Glendening-Andersson

Yandle-Dekeyser

Kronwall-Ericsson

Quincey-Zidlicky

We get two fantastic puck moving defenseman and suddenly we don't have to defend as much because we're not giving the puck away in our own zone. Another way you could pair them is

Kronwall-Dekeyser

Yandle-Quincey

Ericsson-Zidlicky

I actually prefer the second one because I hate Ericsson and I think he's a waste of space and turns the puck over too much, but that's another topic entirely.

Either way you do it our defense improved and moving the puck a ridiculous amount, we suddenly have 6 defenseman that can play 20+ minutes on any given night, and defending ability actually may have improved as well (espcially since we'll have to do it a lot less).

Those two moves I think make us legitimate contenders for the cup and I think we should make them.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I know this isn't going to be popular with anyone except for krsmith, but I'd actually try Smith up with Kronwall. If it blows up, switch it back. Isn't the definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Kronwall-Ericsson isn't working - they've got 6 even strength points together, and they're not exactly a defensive stalwart. I think throwing Smith up there might actually generate some offense, and perhaps showcase him for a trade (krsmith won't like this part).

Ericsson just can't seem to keep it together this year. I like the idea of balancing pairs, regardless of where they're supposed to fit, (Top 4 vs. Top 6, etc.) but Ericsson hasn't brought much balance to the pair up to this point. Honestly, I would try DeKeyser up there with Kronwall as well, but I think trying this first kind of gauges where Smith is at, and also leaves our strongest pair together (for now).

I support this idea entirely. Smith played his best hockey with Kronwall last season and Ericsson has not been good. Surprisingly, I actually like how Quincey has looked with DeKeyser, so I would keep them together and put E with Ouellet.

Babs will never do it though because "you gotta earn the time" despite Smith being fine in that same role during the playoffs no less. Regardless, the Wings need a top four d-man desperately if they seriously want to contend in the near future.

Edited January 12, 2015 by GoWings1905

[krsmith17 7,191]

Jesusberg, as much as I love Smith, at this point, I see him as a good second paining guy, and to be honest, I don't really like him paired with Kronwall. The truth is, and I think we can all agree on this, we don't have another true top pairing guy to pair with Kronwall. Ericsson has been a turnover machine lately. I still think he is very good without the puck as a shutdown guy, but he has gone back to his old ways, in that every time he touches the puck, Red Wings fans everywhere cringe. He has made a ton of bone-headed plays of late, but I think he is going through a rough time right now, he will get through it. I would rather keep them together for the time being, and hope that Ericsson turns the corner again and goes back to his steady self. I would have DeKeyser and Smith as the second pair (they compliment each other really well), leaving Quincey and Ouellet as the third pair. I think the key is balance, and that leaves a offensive (Kronwall, Smith, Ouellet) and defensive (Ericsson, DeKeyser, Quincey) defenseman on each pair.

Of course, we still need to make a trade for that right handed offensive defenseman, but until then, this is what I would like to see...