Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 Nyquist with the Euro Twins pretty much goes against Babs typical thinking when constructing a line. I'm not entirely opposed to Nyquist playing there (my first choice is Jurco), but if history is any indication, that spot is going to Abby. I don't really like Tatar away from Sheahan and/or Helm either. I think Tatar largely thrived offensively last season because he wasn't typically drawing opponents top forwards and d-men. Sheltering Tatar on the third line worked because most other teams couldn't match up with what the Wings could throw out in Tatar, Sheahan and Jurco together. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Abby. But I still think it'll be cleary with the euro twins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if it was Abby. But I still think it'll be cleary with the euro twins. Why? Cleary played 3rd or 4th line minutes all last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 Why? Cleary played 3rd or 4th line minutes all last season. where dd he start the year at? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) where dd he start the year at? He finished the 2012-13 season playing on the 2nd line, and played great for us in the playoffs that year. We had everyone reason to think he would be given top 6 chances to start the season last year. Then he played himself into a position lower than Drew Miller and was rightly demoted for it. There's zero reason to believe he'll be gifted 1st line minutes this year to start the season. Only way he's getting back there is by earning that spot again, which is doubtful at his age. Edited August 20, 2014 by number9 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 where dd he start the year at? On the third line.... You're welcome to check the boxscores and gameday lineups and stats and facts etc. 2 number9 and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't be surprised if it was Abby. But I still think it'll be cleary with the euro twins. I don't think so. As much of a misfit as Abby is on the first line, he's still superior to Cleary in every facet of the game at this juncture. I'm usually pretty critical of Babs decisions with the lines, but if Cleary makes the team at all, I fully expect it to be in a very minor role. Unless Cleary somehow magically got new knees and can skate again, there's no justification for him to get slotted above other more deserving forwards on the roster. Babs is trying to win and despite his stubborn nature, he isn't going to jeopardize that by overusing a washed up veteran. Edited August 20, 2014 by GoWings1905 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 He finished the 2012-13 season playing on the 2nd line, and played great for us in the playoffs that year. We had everyone reason to think he would be given top 6 chances to start the season last year. Then he played himself into a position lower than Drew Miller and was rightly demoted for it. There's zero reason to believe he'll be gifted 1st line minutes this year to start the season. Only way he's getting back there is by earning that spot again, which is doubtful at his age. Babs has gifted plenty of players and s*** on others. For whatever reason cleary is in the gifted group. Tootoo was in the s*** or whatever reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 Babs has gifted plenty of players and s*** on others. For whatever reason cleary is in the gifted group. Tootoo was in the s*** or whatever reason. Like who? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 Like who? I hope that's not a serious question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) I hope that's not a serious question. Well give up hoping EDIT: Ties have gone to vets over kids in the past, other than that Babs doesn't play bad players over good ones. Edited August 20, 2014 by number9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Well give up hoping EDIT: Ties have gone to vets over kids in the past, other than that Babs doesn't play bad players over good ones. That's my point though. Why is the vets who can't play any more(cleary Bert Sammy) or guys who struggle like Quincey get the tie breaker?Why is it the young kids have to prove themselves first whereas the vets don't. Tatar was sat for what 8 games? Why? Nyquist was in the minors. Why? That kind of proves the poit I was making. Edited August 20, 2014 by DeGraa55 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 That's my point though. Why is the vets who can't play any more(cleary Bert Sammy) or guys who struggle like Quincey get the tie breaker? Why is it the young kids have to prove themselves first whereas the vets don't. Tatar was sat for what 8 games? Why? Nyquist was in the minors. Why? That kind of proves the poit I was making. Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs. No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs. No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument. Yes they can. They go through wiaers( no one is stupid enough to claim them anyways). And cleary is one of their favorites just watch. Babs has some whacky ass line combos. That's my bold prediction is that cleary will be on the top line(or Abby but leaning cleary). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs. No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument. Not to mention that they're vets because they've already proven themselves over the course of their careers. 3 krsmith17, number9 and wings4thecup06 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Not to mention that they're vets because they've already proven themselves over the course of their careers.You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up. Edited August 20, 2014 by DeGraa55 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now! Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up. So you really don't get the concept gaining someone's trust and how that works.... Forget hockey...just in general. It's a fairly primitive concept. Or how putting a young person through adversity, and having them overcome obstacles, helps build them to be a better person. 4 number9, wings4thecup06, sjr2012 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now! Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up. If they're close in skill level, tie goes to the guy that's proven he can play at that level in the nhl consistently. How is that hard for you to understand? If a young gun is a clearly better hockey player he'll get a bigger role. If you want to watch a tie go to a young player I'd advise watching more oiler games. 2 number9 and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now! Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up. Plus, things shouldn't just be gifted to anyone in life, they should be earned. Just like with the young kids here. Why would they be pasted straight into the lineup every night if they hadn't already proven they could play at that level, or even tried to earn it? It sends the wrong message to everyone in the organisation. Whereas sending the message of 'if you want to play here, you've got to earn it', promotes (IMO) hard work and competition. Now, granted, it might have seemed like over the last few years the Wings haven't exactly been as lenient with the kids as they perhaps should, but as we saw last year, opportunities arose, and the kids grabbed the bull by the horns and 'earned' their spots. Hopefully, the likes of Jurco and co outplay Cleary and start the year with the big boys. 3 sjr2012, krsmith17 and number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level. When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team. Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first. Edited August 20, 2014 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) If they're close in skill level, tie goes to the guy that's proven he can play at that level in the nhl consistently. How is that hard for you to understand? If a young gun is a clearly better hockey player he'll get a bigger role. If you want to watch a tie go to a young player I'd advise watching more oiler games. I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy? Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level. When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team. Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first. Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it? HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco. Edited August 21, 2014 by DeGraa55 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 21, 2014 I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy? Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it? HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco. AND ON THE TOP LINE TO BOOT!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 21, 2014 AND ON THE TOP LINE TO BOOT!!! Yes lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted August 21, 2014 I predict Franzen spends the year on the 4th line. Babcock leaves for Pittsburgh. Datsyuk retires early for Russia. And Jurco still can't crack the lineup cause of Cleary!!! Oh that Cleary... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted August 21, 2014 I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy? Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it? HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco. No but that seems to be the argument you're trying to make. If you look at the lines I threw out Cleary isn't even on them. You're the one saying he'll get top line minutes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted August 21, 2014 No but that seems to be the argument you're trying to make. If you look at the lines I threw out Cleary isn't even on them. You're the one saying he'll get top line minutes. That's just my prediction cleary will be on the top line to start the year . He is apart if the good ole boys club. I predict Franzen spends the year on the 4th line. Babcock leaves for Pittsburgh. Datsyuk retires early for Russia. And Jurco still can't crack the lineup cause of Cleary!!! Oh that Cleary...My god if Franzen got demoted to the fourth i would take back everything negative ever said about Babcock. Even if just for a game to send a message. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites