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Guest DeGraa55

Nyquist with the Euro Twins pretty much goes against Babs typical thinking when constructing a line. I'm not entirely opposed to Nyquist playing there (my first choice is Jurco), but if history is any indication, that spot is going to Abby.

I don't really like Tatar away from Sheahan and/or Helm either. I think Tatar largely thrived offensively last season because he wasn't typically drawing opponents top forwards and d-men. Sheltering Tatar on the third line worked because most other teams couldn't match up with what the Wings could throw out in Tatar, Sheahan and Jurco together.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Abby. But I still think it'll be cleary with the euro twins.

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Guest DeGraa55

Why?

Cleary played 3rd or 4th line minutes all last season.

where dd he start the year at?

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where dd he start the year at?

He finished the 2012-13 season playing on the 2nd line, and played great for us in the playoffs that year. We had everyone reason to think he would be given top 6 chances to start the season last year.

Then he played himself into a position lower than Drew Miller and was rightly demoted for it.

There's zero reason to believe he'll be gifted 1st line minutes this year to start the season. Only way he's getting back there is by earning that spot again, which is doubtful at his age.

Edited by number9

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I wouldn't be surprised if it was Abby. But I still think it'll be cleary with the euro twins.

I don't think so. As much of a misfit as Abby is on the first line, he's still superior to Cleary in every facet of the game at this juncture. I'm usually pretty critical of Babs decisions with the lines, but if Cleary makes the team at all, I fully expect it to be in a very minor role. Unless Cleary somehow magically got new knees and can skate again, there's no justification for him to get slotted above other more deserving forwards on the roster. Babs is trying to win and despite his stubborn nature, he isn't going to jeopardize that by overusing a washed up veteran.

Edited by GoWings1905

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Guest DeGraa55

He finished the 2012-13 season playing on the 2nd line, and played great for us in the playoffs that year. We had everyone reason to think he would be given top 6 chances to start the season last year.

Then he played himself into a position lower than Drew Miller and was rightly demoted for it.

There's zero reason to believe he'll be gifted 1st line minutes this year to start the season. Only way he's getting back there is by earning that spot again, which is doubtful at his age.

Babs has gifted plenty of players and s*** on others. For whatever reason cleary is in the gifted group. Tootoo was in the s*** or whatever reason.

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I hope that's not a serious question.

Well give up hoping

EDIT: Ties have gone to vets over kids in the past, other than that Babs doesn't play bad players over good ones.

Edited by number9

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Guest DeGraa55

Well give up hoping

EDIT: Ties have gone to vets over kids in the past, other than that Babs doesn't play bad players over good ones.

That's my point though. Why is the vets who can't play any more(cleary Bert Sammy) or guys who struggle like Quincey get the tie breaker?

Why is it the young kids have to prove themselves first whereas the vets don't. Tatar was sat for what 8 games? Why? Nyquist was in the minors. Why? That kind of proves the poit I was making.

Edited by DeGraa55

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That's my point though. Why is the vets who can't play any more(cleary Bert Sammy) or guys who struggle like Quincey get the tie breaker?

Why is it the young kids have to prove themselves first whereas the vets don't. Tatar was sat for what 8 games? Why? Nyquist was in the minors. Why? That kind of proves the poit I was making.

Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs.

No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument.

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Guest DeGraa55

Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs.

No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument.

Yes they can. They go through wiaers( no one is stupid enough to claim them anyways).

And cleary is one of their favorites just watch. Babs has some whacky ass line combos. That's my bold prediction is that cleary will be on the top line(or Abby but leaning cleary).

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Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs.

No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument.

Not to mention that they're vets because they've already proven themselves over the course of their careers.

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Guest DeGraa55

Not to mention that they're vets because they've already proven themselves over the course of their careers.

You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

Edited by DeGraa55

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You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

So you really don't get the concept gaining someone's trust and how that works....

Forget hockey...just in general. It's a fairly primitive concept.

Or how putting a young person through adversity, and having them overcome obstacles, helps build them to be a better person.

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You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

If they're close in skill level, tie goes to the guy that's proven he can play at that level in the nhl consistently. How is that hard for you to understand? If a young gun is a clearly better hockey player he'll get a bigger role. If you want to watch a tie go to a young player I'd advise watching more oiler games.

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You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

Plus, things shouldn't just be gifted to anyone in life, they should be earned. Just like with the young kids here. Why would they be pasted straight into the lineup every night if they hadn't already proven they could play at that level, or even tried to earn it? It sends the wrong message to everyone in the organisation. Whereas sending the message of 'if you want to play here, you've got to earn it', promotes (IMO) hard work and competition.

Now, granted, it might have seemed like over the last few years the Wings haven't exactly been as lenient with the kids as they perhaps should, but as we saw last year, opportunities arose, and the kids grabbed the bull by the horns and 'earned' their spots. Hopefully, the likes of Jurco and co outplay Cleary and start the year with the big boys.

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Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level.

When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team.

Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first.

Edited by GoWings1905

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Guest DeGraa55

If they're close in skill level, tie goes to the guy that's proven he can play at that level in the nhl consistently. How is that hard for you to understand? If a young gun is a clearly better hockey player he'll get a bigger role. If you want to watch a tie go to a young player I'd advise watching more oiler games.

I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy?

Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level.

When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team.

Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first.

Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it?

HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco.

Edited by DeGraa55

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I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy?

Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it?

HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco.

AND ON THE TOP LINE TO BOOT!!!

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I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy?

Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it?

HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco.

No but that seems to be the argument you're trying to make. If you look at the lines I threw out Cleary isn't even on them. You're the one saying he'll get top line minutes.

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Guest DeGraa55

No but that seems to be the argument you're trying to make. If you look at the lines I threw out Cleary isn't even on them. You're the one saying he'll get top line minutes.

That's just my prediction cleary will be on the top line to start the year . He is apart if the good ole boys club.

I predict Franzen spends the year on the 4th line. Babcock leaves for Pittsburgh. Datsyuk retires early for Russia. And Jurco still can't crack the lineup cause of Cleary!!! Oh that Cleary...

My god if Franzen got demoted to the fourth i would take back everything negative ever said about Babcock. Even if just for a game to send a message.

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