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#661 DeGraa55

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

 
Well give up hoping
 
EDIT: Ties have gone to vets over kids in the past, other than that Babs doesn't play bad players over good ones.

That's my point though. Why is the vets who can't play any more(cleary Bert Sammy) or guys who struggle like Quincey get the tie breaker?

Why is it the young kids have to prove themselves first whereas the vets don't. Tatar was sat for what 8 games? Why? Nyquist was in the minors. Why? That kind of proves the poit I was making.

Edited by DeGraa55, 20 August 2014 - 05:30 PM.


#662 number9

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:36 PM

That's my point though. Why is the vets who can't play any more(cleary Bert Sammy) or guys who struggle like Quincey get the tie breaker?

Why is it the young kids have to prove themselves first whereas the vets don't. Tatar was sat for what 8 games? Why? Nyquist was in the minors. Why? That kind of proves the poit I was making.

 

Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs.

 

No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument.



#663 DeGraa55

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:48 PM

 
Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs.
 
No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument.


Yes they can. They go through wiaers( no one is stupid enough to claim them anyways).

And cleary is one of their favorites just watch. Babs has some whacky ass line combos. That's my bold prediction is that cleary will be on the top line(or Abby but leaning cleary).

#664 nawein

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:04 PM

 
Because vets can't go to the minors... and their veterans of the team, they get seniority and thus win ties. It's no longer a tie and rightly so Babs has said certain vets have lost their jobs.
 
No, the point you were trying to make was that Cleary would slot in on the 1st line with Dats and Z over all our other good players... not that Cleary was taking a fourth line spot from Callahan or somebody. It's a completely different point and argument.


Not to mention that they're vets because they've already proven themselves over the course of their careers.

#665 DeGraa55

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:08 PM

Not to mention that they're vets because they've already proven themselves over the course of their careers.

You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

Edited by DeGraa55, 20 August 2014 - 06:09 PM.


#666 Son of a Wing

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:18 PM

You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

 

So you really don't get the concept gaining someone's trust and how that works....

 

Forget hockey...just in general.  It's a fairly primitive concept.


Or how putting a young person through adversity, and having them overcome obstacles, helps build them to be a better person.


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#667 nawein

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:20 PM

You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.


If they're close in skill level, tie goes to the guy that's proven he can play at that level in the nhl consistently. How is that hard for you to understand? If a young gun is a clearly better hockey player he'll get a bigger role. If you want to watch a tie go to a young player I'd advise watching more oiler games.

#668 wings4thecup06

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:27 PM

You're right someone was good 10, 15 or 20 years ago so they must still be good now!

Howe can prolly still play let's sign him up.

 

Plus, things shouldn't just be gifted to anyone in life, they should be earned. Just like with the young kids here. Why would they be pasted straight into the lineup every night if they hadn't already proven they could play at that level, or even tried to earn it? It sends the wrong message to everyone in the organisation. Whereas sending the message of 'if you want to play here, you've got to earn it', promotes (IMO) hard work and competition. 

 

Now, granted, it might have seemed like over the last few years the Wings haven't exactly been as lenient with the kids as they perhaps should, but as we saw last year, opportunities arose, and the kids grabbed the bull by the horns and 'earned' their spots. Hopefully, the likes of Jurco and co outplay Cleary and start the year with the big boys. 


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#669 GoWings1905

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:39 PM

Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level.

When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team.

Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first.

Edited by GoWings1905, 20 August 2014 - 06:41 PM.

 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#670 DeGraa55

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:08 PM

If they're close in skill level, tie goes to the guy that's proven he can play at that level in the nhl consistently. How is that hard for you to understand? If a young gun is a clearly better hockey player he'll get a bigger role. If you want to watch a tie go to a young player I'd advise watching more oiler games.


I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy?

Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level.

When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team.

Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first.



Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it?

HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco.

Edited by DeGraa55, 20 August 2014 - 07:05 PM.


#671 number9

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy?


Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it?

HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco.

 

AND ON THE TOP LINE TO BOOT!!!



#672 DeGraa55

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:57 PM

 
AND ON THE TOP LINE TO BOOT!!!


Yes lol

#673 number9

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 09:39 PM

I predict Franzen spends the year on the 4th line. Babcock leaves for Pittsburgh. Datsyuk retires early for Russia. And Jurco still can't crack the lineup cause of Cleary!!! Oh that Cleary...



#674 nawein

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 10:00 PM

I completely agree if theyre close in skill level. So are you going to make the argument that Tatar and nyquist are close to cleary and Sammy?


Ya no kidding people here are saying they have to earn their spot. Hasn't jurco earned it?

HE OUTPLAYED CLEARY LAST YEAR. Yet the favorite cleary will be given a chance over jurco.


No but that seems to be the argument you're trying to make. If you look at the lines I threw out Cleary isn't even on them. You're the one saying he'll get top line minutes.

#675 DeGraa55

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 10:08 PM

No but that seems to be the argument you're trying to make. If you look at the lines I threw out Cleary isn't even on them. You're the one saying he'll get top line minutes.


That's just my prediction cleary will be on the top line to start the year . He is apart if the good ole boys club.

I predict Franzen spends the year on the 4th line. Babcock leaves for Pittsburgh. Datsyuk retires early for Russia. And Jurco still can't crack the lineup cause of Cleary!!! Oh that Cleary...

My god if Franzen got demoted to the fourth i would take back everything negative ever said about Babcock. Even if just for a game to send a message.

#676 wings4thecup06

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:04 AM

Right now this is all just speculation. Just because Cleary has a contract, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to make the team. He may show up to camp, and look horrible compared to the kids. Right now, we just don't know. Or, he may show up to camp and blow everyone away. Either way its good for the Wings (so long as if he's horrible, they send him down or release him). 

 

Personally I think Jurco has proven enough to warrant NHL playing time, but management might feel different. 


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#677 number9

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:19 AM

Jurco sucks

#678 Echolalia

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:48 AM

Right now this is all just speculation. Just because Cleary has a contract, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to make the team. He may show up to camp, and look horrible compared to the kids. Right now, we just don't know. Or, he may show up to camp and blow everyone away. Either way its good for the Wings (so long as if he's horrible, they send him down or release him). 
 
Personally I think Jurco has proven enough to warrant NHL playing time, but management might feel different. 

The contract that Cleary signed includes a bonus if he plays ten games with the Wings. Because this whole contract renewal thing has to do with honoring Holland's word that the Wings will take care of Cleary this year, a lot of us suspect that Cleary will get 10 games with the Wings (unless he's absolutely terrible or injured). In those 10 games the organization can determine whether Cleary will be an asset to the team for the remainder of the season, and Cleary gets the money he left on the table last year. My prediction is he plays 10 games and that's the last we see of him.

#679 Son of a Wing

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

I miss having someone like this in the lineup...

 

 

 

Here's hoping Glendening and/or Callahan can develop into an impact hitter.


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#680 wings4thecup06

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:31 PM

I miss having someone like this in the lineup...

 

 

 

Here's hoping Glendening and/or Callahan can develop into an impact hitter.

 

Couldn't agree more. I really miss that too. Shame that Fischer got injured too nearly died and had to retire, we could have used that toughness on the back end. Glad to see that he's doing good though. 


The contract that Cleary signed includes a bonus if he plays ten games with the Wings. Because this whole contract renewal thing has to do with honoring Holland's word that the Wings will take care of Cleary this year, a lot of us suspect that Cleary will get 10 games with the Wings (unless he's absolutely terrible or injured). In those 10 games the organization can determine whether Cleary will be an asset to the team for the remainder of the season, and Cleary gets the money he left on the table last year. My prediction is he plays 10 games and that's the last we see of him.

 

And yea, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 10 games, but if he's truly being outplayed in training camp by the likes of Jurco and Pulkkinen, I can't believe the Wings would play him? 


Edited by wings4thecup06, 21 August 2014 - 06:31 PM.

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