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#741 krsmith17

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:55 AM

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work. I think the Red Wings have unbelievable scouts but I think it's more than that, I think it's more to do with the way they develop their players. No player is ever given a roster spot, every spot, every game and every shift has to be earned.

Jurco will be our first call up which is great and Pulkkinen and Mantha will be our 2nd and 3rd callups if need be, which shows great depth up front.

 

I however do believe that Jurco is the "next coming", but unlike so many others on here, I don't think he's quite ready yet and I'm completely fine with waiting another half to full season to see him called up again. Some people will probably laugh at this but I think Jurco has more potential than any one of our forward prospects, including Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and even Mantha. I strongly believe that this kid is the real deal and he will show that in the next couple years. Think that was funny? Well here's something even more humorous to some of you I'm sure, I think he has the potential to have as much of an impact on this organization as Datsyuk and Zetterberg have had over their careers... Call me crazy... ;)



#742 Euro_Twins

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:03 AM

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work. I think the Red Wings have unbelievable scouts but I think it's more than that, I think it's more to do with the way they develop their players. No player is ever given a roster spot, every spot, every game and every shift has to be earned.
Jurco will be our first call up which is great and Pulkkinen and Mantha will be our 2nd and 3rd callups if need be, which shows great depth up front.
 
I however do believe that Jurco is the "next coming", but unlike so many others on here, I don't think he's quite ready yet and I'm completely fine with waiting another half to full season to see him called up again. Some people will probably laugh at this but I think Jurco has more potential than any one of our forward prospects, including Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and even Mantha. I strongly believe that this kid is the real deal and he will show that in the next couple years. Think that was funny? Well here's something even more humorous to some of you I'm sure, I think he has the potential to have as much of an impact on this organization as Datsyuk and Zetterberg have had over their careers... Call me crazy... ;)


Mantha, really? I doubt he will be better than mantha. The others aren't all that comparable considering size difference and playing styles.

#743 DickieDunn

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:16 AM

Jurco uses his size. From what I've seen Mantha is more like Franzen.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#744 T.Low

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:35 AM

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work. I think the Red Wings have unbelievable scouts but I think it's more than that, I think it's more to do with the way they develop their players. No player is ever given a roster spot, every spot, every game and every shift has to be earned.
Jurco will be our first call up which is great and Pulkkinen and Mantha will be our 2nd and 3rd callups if need be, which shows great depth up front.
 
I however do believe that Jurco is the "next coming", but unlike so many others on here, I don't think he's quite ready yet and I'm completely fine with waiting another half to full season to see him called up again. Some people will probably laugh at this but I think Jurco has more potential than any one of our forward prospects, including Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and even Mantha. I strongly believe that this kid is the real deal and he will show that in the next couple years. Think that was funny? Well here's something even more humorous to some of you I'm sure, I think he has the potential to have as much of an impact on this organization as Datsyuk and Zetterberg have had over their careers... Call me crazy... ;)





What have you seen from him that suggests any of this?

#745 Echolalia

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:12 PM

 
A few things:

  • Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
  • Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
  • Does a player have to be The Next Coming to play in our top nine?
  • A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a top-six power forward.
Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Clearly Jurco needs more time on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"
The way you started this response got my hopes up for a Chelios meme comeback. I is dissapoint. :(

#746 Dominator2005

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:34 PM

Probably:
Z - Data - Abdelkader
Tatar - She - Nyquist
Franzen - Weiss - Alf
Miller - Helm - LG/Callahan

Kronwall - E
DeKe - Smith
Q - Kindl/Marchenko

Horrible.... Soft as a butter
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#747 Dabura

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:07 AM

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work.

 

To be clear, in saying I think Jurco should - and might - start the season as a Red Wing, I'm not decrying the organization's development strategy. I'm talking about Jurco, who I think is a somewhat special case as far as Wings prospects go. He has good size, he can be physically imposing, he arguably does his best work in the dirty areas (around the opposition's net), he's incredibly skilled (i.e. he's not Abdelkader), and - maybe above all - he helped the team in a specific role this past season (one third of what was one of the most electric lines in hockey, Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco). The Wings haven't had many prospects like him.

 

There's a good chance Jurco starts the season on the farm, but I'm willing to bet he spends most of this coming season as a Red Wing and goes into the 2015-16 season as a full-timer. I don't think management is going to give him the standard over-ripening treatment.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#748 number9

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:23 AM

 
To be clear, in saying I think Jurco should - and might - start the season as a Red Wing, I'm not decrying the organization's development strategy. I'm talking about Jurco, who I think is a somewhat special case as far as Wings prospects go. He has good size, he can be physically imposing, he arguably does his best work in the dirty areas (around the opposition's net), he's incredibly skilled (i.e. he's not Abdelkader), and - maybe above all - he helped the team in a specific role this past season (one third of what was one of the most electric lines in hockey, Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco). The Wings haven't had many prospects like him.
 
There's a good chance Jurco starts the season on the farm, but I'm willing to bet he spends most of this coming season as a Red Wing and goes into the 2015-16 season as a full-timer. I don't think management is going to give him the standard over-ripening treatment.


Well I think it's clear he's going to be #1 on speed dial when injuries begin.

I don't think he's an exception at all though. Ppl clamored for the coming of Tatar for years. Now look at him. Mature, Hungry, chip-on his shoulder, wants to be Detroit's next big thing. I absolutely love Nyquist, but no one on this team has a fire underneath them like Tatar does. You feel it every time he touches the puck. And he's in the NHL now, but he still has plenty of growing to do. Jurco playing 30 games this season would perfect IMO. I want him to dominate, I mean truly own, the AHL before becoming a full time wing. That way we can say we did our due diligence inh achieving his full potential.

#749 Dabura

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:12 PM

To be honest, all I really, truly care about is two or three years out from now. If another season on the farm is going to make Jurco a much better player in 2016-17 (when we will, hopefully, be legitimate contenders) than he otherwise would be, I'm ok with it. I just don't want it done for the sake of it being done, don't want it done for the sake of learnin' him what it takes to be a ZOMG NHL REGULAR. I'm fine with Pulkkinen having to go trudge through the mud; he's smallish, not a great skater, pretty one-dimensional. Jurco, not so much. But we'll see what we see.


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#750 Dabura

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:33 PM

(Again, I fully understand The Plan. I get over-ripening as a development strategy, I've defended it a number of times. I just don't think Jurco needs the four-year apprenticeship. I don't think he needs much more - if any - time below. I think there's also a need on our team for a big, physical guy with hands and natural scoring ability. How many guys do we have like that? Franzen is big, but he's not especially physical. Abdelkader has no hands. We're not signing key free agents and we don't have much quality talent beyond our core players, so we can't necessarily afford to keep all our prospects down as long as we normally would.)


Don't Toews me, bro!


#751 number9

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:12 PM

(Again, I fully understand The Plan. I get over-ripening as a development strategy, I've defended it a number of times. I just don't think Jurco needs the four-year apprenticeship. I don't think he needs much more - if any - time below. I think there's also a need on our team for a big, physical guy with hands and natural scoring ability. How many guys do we have like that? Franzen is big, but he's not especially physical. Abdelkader has no hands. We're not signing key free agents and we don't have much quality talent beyond our core players, so we can't necessarily afford to keep all our prospects down as long as we normally would.)

 

Jurco's AHL stint at the moment is less than 1 and a half seasons. I don't think he needs 4 years either, but how about 2? 2 and a half even? We are in a situation where we have a log jam at forward, and where young guys (also good players) are going to be exposed to waivers even if Jurco goes to the minors. Starting the season with him on the roster only uneededly exposes more players to waivers.

 

I am not willing to ship out Callahan for nothing just because a kid scored 15 pts in 36 games last season and somehow that earned him a spot in that short of a time. That's a very small sample size of games, with very moderate results, to have solidified a spot with the big boys. I don't think he at all gets priority over guys like Glendening or Callahan at this stage of his career.

 

Glendening is 4 years Jurco's senior and has proven to be effective in his time with the wings as well. Callahan has also shown tremendous promise and is 2 years Jurco's senior. It's now or never for those two. They deserve their shots. Jurco can wait for the first string of injuries to roll through.


Edited by number9, 02 September 2014 - 07:16 PM.


#752 DickieDunn

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:00 PM

Glendening has shown that his hard work has made him a borderline NHL player. Jurco showed a good combination of speed size and ability and despite his defensive issues at times he deserves an NHL spot. Callahan has shown he's a good ahl role player.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#753 number9

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:35 PM

Glendening has shown that his hard work has made him a borderline NHL player. Jurco showed a good combination of speed size and ability and despite his defensive issues at times he deserves an NHL spot. Callahan has shown he's a good ahl role player.

 

The 4th line can be just as crucial as the top line. See: Grind Line.

 

15 points in 36 gp does not make you a bonafide NHL player by any means.

 

So bc Callahan has never had a shot at the NHL he's just a good AHL role player? You don't know what he's got till you play him. He was 2nd among Griffins in goals. He's no scrub. This is a business. Starting Jurco is definition poor asset management.



#754 T.Low

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:42 PM

Is Jurco even 200lbs yet?

#755 number9

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:02 PM

Is Jurco even 200lbs yet?


Nope.

Callahan is 3 lbs lighter, but also 2 inches shorter.

Glendening is 3 inches shorter but 7 lbs heavier. Built like a football player.

Jurco is listed at 193 6 ft 2 btw. How recent that is I have no idea.

#756 GoWings1905

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:51 PM

There are hundreds of Luke Glendening's floating around the league. Hell, Joakim Andersson probably brings more to the table.

You don't keep Jurco down for Glendening or Callahan. Those are fringe NHL players.
 
 
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#757 T.Low

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:57 PM

It's not a question of keeping Jurco down for those guys, it's a philosophy of getting him used to being the go-to guy first in GR, being the main man, the one we count on day in and day out to bring the rain, to pick up the bar tab when the game is on the line-"Guys, I got it".

Once he's played that role , with that mentality, long enough in GR, it will be more possible to develop that mentality in the nhl.

Edited by T.Low, 02 September 2014 - 10:02 PM.


#758 Euro_Twins

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:25 PM

It's not a question of keeping Jurco down for those guys, it's a philosophy of getting him used to being the go-to guy first in GR, being the main man, the one we count on day in and day out to bring the rain, to pick up the bar tab when the game is on the line-"Guys, I got it".

Once he's played that role , with that mentality, long enough in GR, it will be more possible to develop that mentality in the nhl.

 

wait... o one told me he was picking up the bar tab... why have I been paying for my own beer?



#759 T.Low

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:48 AM

wait... o one told me he was picking up the bar tab... why have I been paying for my own beer?


That will teach you to check in with lgw at least once a day.
However...I'm not convinced he's quite that guy.

Edited by T.Low, 03 September 2014 - 02:01 AM.


#760 krsmith17

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:26 AM

Again, I agree with number9 100%. Jurco should and WILL start the season in Grand Rapids for so many different reasons. Why is this still being debated?...

 

GoWings1905, you absolutely do keep Jurco down for players like Glendening and Callahan if he is the only one of the three that is not waiver exempt. Glendening is a great shut down guy and has the potential to be a great 4th liner in this league for a long time. Callahan has only played one NHL game so far but has been great down in the minors. These two players are both the guys you want to go to war with, they will put it all on the line every single game and every single shift. Like number9 said, 4th line role players are just as important to the makeup of a team as your top line scorers. These are the guys you need to shut down the oppositions top lines every night and both have the potential to be great shut down guys.

 

I think Callahan has the potential to be somewhat in the mold of a Brad Marchand or Andrew Shaw. Ask those two teams how important those guys are to their teams success...







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