NHL players will not participate in 2018 Olympics (Mod Post #99)

[roboturner 562]

Correct in the fact that they do not get more money.The issue being that the owner still has to pay them their paycheck for the 2 weeks they are gone. The main issue with participating ( aside from injury risk) is loosing profit from having a two week break. A pause from the game at this stage in the season is horrible timing for teams to deal with. To what you said about "the team being somewhere where it shouldn't be" the problem simply is that hockey is not recognized very well in America( you cant have a 15 team league). It is what it is and the NHL gets by.

Instead of having plenty of die hard fans like the NFL, lots of franchises have "lets go check out a hockey game, see what its about"

If they aren't getting more money, then who cares if you have to pay them for two weeks now or not pay them for two weeks and add that amount to other paychecks. I'm not really seeing an issue here.

And the owners aren't losing profit. Every team get 41 home games every year. Even during Olympic years. So yeah, the areas aren't bringing in any money for two weeks. During these years, those games are squeezed into to other weeks. Again, not losing money. Not really seeing an issue with this either.

...And yes, you could have a 15 team league. More talent on each team, prime locations ===>less teams losing money, more profitable league

Edited February 11, 2014 by roboturner

[Guest Sinden]

If they aren't getting more money, then who cares if you have to pay them for two weeks now or not pay them for two weeks and add that amount to other paychecks. I'm not really seeing an issue here.

And the owners aren't losing profit. Every team get 41 home games every year. Even during Olympic years. So yeah, the areas aren't bringing in any money for two weeks. During these years, those games are squeezed into to other weeks. Again, not losing money. Not really seeing an issue with this either.

...And yes, you could have a 15 team league. More talent on each team, prime locations ===>less teams losing money, more profitable league

Again the issue is that I wright you a pay check for the two weeks while you go play an intense energy packed tournament which is most likely in some other country that has very different accommodations. You being the player return back to work tired, potentially lacking some motivation. You may also return to work with an injury that you acquired during the tournament. If so I pay to fix your injury and I pay you to sit and watch while you recover from your injuries. If you as an owner would not be pissed right off about that then there are bigger issues.

You are correct each team plays 41 home and away games regardless of it being an Olympic year. The issue is not that they play less games. The issues are that the League is taking a two week break. In many ways this break in the season does hurt the product of the NHL. It can make people "clock out" and become less interested. Say the race for a playoff spot or your team just being on a roll. It can hurt a teams chemistry. If my hockey team is on a roll and playing well the last thing I want is a two week break that has some players go to a tournament and has some players go on a tropical vacation. Olympic hockey has a ton of positives, but who the hell in North America is going to watch a game on a weekday at 6 am? I don't know how to make all of this more clear.

edit- The NHL is all about expansion. The NHL is trying to grow the product (the game of hockey)

A 15 team league would for sure not be more profitable. It would probably be the worst thing that has ever happened to the NHL, screwing up a ton of forward progress that has been made.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Sinden

[Nev 1,085]

1) Quit bitching about the time zones. The rest of the world is in different time zones and manages to cope with it for major sporting events. America may be the biggest single TV market, but it is not the only TV market.

2) If the NHL received a cut of the hockey revenue from the Winter Olympics, all these complaints from Bettman and the owners would disappear instantly.

[Guest Sinden]

1) Quit bitching about the time zones. The rest of the world is in different time zones and manages to cope with it for major sporting events. America may be the biggest single TV market, but it is not the only TV market.

2) If the NHL received a cut of the hockey revenue from the Winter Olympics, all these complaints from Bettman and the owners would disappear instantly.

1. I am not "bitching about time zones" I am just not getting up at 6 am on a weekday while I should be working to watch hockey. Neither should anybody really.

2. No kidding? How can you even bring that up? The Olympics are for amateurs. There isn't money to be given. If there was it wouldn't even be Olympics anymore (World Cup of Hockey)

edit- There is more to the reason that the NHL decided to pull out, read my post above

Edited February 11, 2014 by Sinden

[Buppy 1,720]

Again the issue is that I wright you a pay check for the two weeks while you go play an intense energy packed tournament which is most likely in some other country that has very different accommodations. You being the player return back to work tired, potentially lacking some motivation. You may also return to work with an injury that you acquired during the tournament. If so I pay to fix your injury and I pay you to sit and watch while you recover from your injuries. If you as an owner would not be pissed right off about that then there are bigger issues.

You are correct each team plays 41 home and away games regardless of it being an Olympic year. The issue is not that they play less games. The issues are that the League is taking a two week break. In many ways this break in the season does hurt the product of the NHL. It can make people "clock out" and become less interested. Say the race for a playoff spot or your team just being on a roll. It can hurt a teams chemistry. If my hockey team is on a roll and playing well the last thing I want is a two week break that has some players go to a tournament and has some players go on a tropical vacation. Olympic hockey has a ton of positives, but who the hell in North America is going to watch a game on a weekday at 6 am? I don't know how to make all of this more clear.

edit- The NHL is all about expansion. The NHL is trying to grow the product (the game of hockey)

A 15 team league would for sure not be more profitable. It would probably be the worst thing that has ever happened to the NHL, screwing up a ton of forward progress that has been made.

The checks get written regardless. Doesn't really matter when or what the player is doing at the time. Might be a minor complaint if the break causes there to be an extra pay period prior to the trade deadline (but no games to offset it), but I'm not sure if that's the case.

The injury thing should should be a non-issue. I assume we still consider this a free country, and we are generally opposed to the notion of letting our employers dictate what risks we are allowed to take in our private lives. While I might agree with the notion of owners requiring the players bear some of the liability if they were to get injured (though I'm pretty sure they already have insurance for that), I don't think there's any justification to stop them from playing. Injuries, much less serious ones, aren't really that common. It's not an unreasonable risk.

As for the loss of interest/profits from the break; do you have any data to support that? 2010 saw record revenues, and I think 2006 did as well and that was right after the lockout year. Not sure about 98 or 02, but I know in general revenues have been skyrocketting for about 20 years now.

It's disruptive and a pain in the ass from a scheduling standpoint. Big deal. It's once every four years.

This is nothing but a power play from the owners and league, because they think of the players as property. They think any minor concern they might be able to think of matters more than anything the players might want. I'd like to say it will eventually come back on them, but it probably wont. Lockout #4 will come, the owners will win again, and by the next year no one will care.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

This is nothing but a power play from the owners and league, because they think of the players as property. They think any minor concern they might be able to think of matters more than anything the players might want. I'd like to say it will eventually come back on them, but it probably wont. Lockout #4 will come, the owners will win again, and by the next year no one will care.

All we as fans can hope for, is that the NHLPA will decertify this time. Most owners think of the players as some sort of proberty instead of human beings, which is just digusting. If the NHLPA decertifies than the crappy franchises won't have the luxury of getting tons of millions from teams like the Red Wings, their owners either compete or go under and the team gets moved to a more deserving city in Canada.

I don't care if its a 15, 24 or whatever team league the product will for sure be better than the current watered down version. The Olympics are a two week break every FOUR years, I don't need NHL executives coming here and trying to convince me, that this is bad (we're talking about a whooping 3,5 days / year) here. Like someone mentioned if two weeks are such a problem for some franchises, well than they shouldn't have been awarded with one from the beginning or are in a pathetic market, period. Not the fault of the players nor the fans.

Glad there are owners like Mr. I, Pegula, Dolan and Burkle at least they seem to be reasonable, nice counterpart to absolute idiots like Snider, Yormark, Liarpold, Wang..

The stupid IOC is responsible for the timezone think, not the players nor the fans why award the winter olympics to a country, that isn't even into Winter games ? Makes just as much sense as giving the games to Sochi despite all the safety concerns...

[Nev 1,085]

1. I am not "bitching about time zones" I am just not getting up at 6 am on a weekday while I should be working to watch hockey. Neither should anybody really.

2. No kidding? How can you even bring that up? The Olympics are for amateurs. There isn't money to be given. If there was it wouldn't even be Olympics anymore (World Cup of Hockey)

edit- There is more to the reason that the NHL decided to pull out, read my post above

1) Neither should anybody? What do you propose, have every Olympics in North America? Except here's the problem, THE REST OF THE FRACKING WORLD IS IN A DIFFERENT TIME ZONE!!!!! No matter where the Olympics are, people all around the world are "inconvenienced" by the timings. And yet the rest of the world manages to cope without crying about it. There is a world outside North America.

2) Since when were the Olympics for amateurs? Not for decades. Even the "non-professionals" are usually full-time athletes either supported by their sports governing bodies, or in Americas case, "students" with 2 hours class a week on letter writing. Or in the military, or the police, and released to be pretty much full time athletes. International sport is such a high standard these days that it is near impossible to compete in most sports if you are not full-time.

And there is tons of money - TV deals, official sponsors, ticket sales, merchandising.......Bettman and Snider and co see all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and they see it going to not them, and they get jealous, and they get mad, "Whoever loves money never has enough".

Edited February 11, 2014 by Nev

[roboturner 562]

Look every weed dealer in the country knows its bad business model to take from your profits only to give them to a money hole. Lets say I can buy an oz of grass for $200, and I CAN sell it for $300. lets say I have 15 oz and every one is profitable. Thats $1500 profit.

Now same deal, but I buy 30 oz at $200 and half of them only sell for $150. Now I only make a profit of $750 on the whole 30 oz deal, whereas I was making twice as much with less product to sell. (someone check my mathematics haha)

It's the same with the NHL. If there are teams bringing down the bottom line of the entire league and the owners are OK with this, then I just can't have any sympathy for them for issues like these. And if every drug dealer in America knows this then why can't a lawyer and a bunch of billionaire owners figure it out?

EDIT: And for the people bitching about the locations & time zones of the games, you want the entire world to revolve around the 5 % of its population living in the US & Canada, just because you are slightly inconvenienced at having to watch a Hockey game?? Get F***ing Real!! That's honestly one of the most Elitist things I've ever heard!

Edited February 11, 2014 by roboturner

[number9 3,297]

Look every weed dealer in the country knows its bad business model to take from your profits only to give them to a money hole. Lets say I can buy an oz of grass for $200, and I CAN sell it for $300. lets say I have 15 oz and every one is profitable. Thats $1500 profit.

Now same deal, but I buy 30 oz at $200 and half of them only sell for $150. Now I only make a profit of $750 on the whole 30 oz deal, whereas I was making twice as much with less product to sell. (someone check my mathematics haha)

It's the same with the NHL. If there are teams bringing down the bottom line of the entire league and the owners are OK with this, then I just can't have any sympathy for them for issues like these. And if every drug dealer in America knows this then why can't a lawyer and a bunch of billionaire owners figure it out?

EDIT: And for the people bitching about the locations & time zones of the games, you want the entire world to revolve around the 4.7 % of its population living in the US & Canada, just because you are slightly inconvenienced at having to watch a Hockey game?? Get F***ing Real!! That's honestly one of the most Elitist things I've ever heard!

Growing the sport long term. Growing new markets. Etc. etc.

[BadgerBob 297]

Reading through this and talking about how kids were used in 1980 for the hockey team, it got me curious. I wasn't around to see this live, so I was somewhat curious to see the ages of these guys. It seems to me, from talking to my dad about when he played, a lot of these guys actually stayed all four years at college unlike nowadays where they're there for a year or two just to get bigger and bolt to the pros. I found this and thought it was interesting:

Goaltenders

• Jim Craig, 21
  North Easton, MA (Boston U)
• Steve Janaszak, 22
  Saint Paul, MN (Minnesota)

• Defense
• Bill Baker, 22
  Grand Rapids, MN (Minnesota)
• Dave Christian, 20
  Warroad, MN (North Dakota)
• Ken Morrow, 22
  Flint, MI (Bowling Green)
• Jack O'Callahan, 22
  Charlestown, MA (Boston U)
• Mike Ramsey, 19
  Minneapolis, MN (Minnesota)
• Bob Suter, 22
  Madison, WI (Wisconsin)

  Forwards

• Neal Broten, 20
  Roseau, MN (Minnesota)
• Steve Christoff, 21
  Richfield, MN (Minnesota)
• Mike Eruzione, 25 (Captain)
  Winthrop, MA (Boston U)
• John Harrington, 22
  Virginia, MN (Minnesota-Duluth)
• Mark Johnson, 21
  Madison, WI (Wisconsin)
• Rob McClanahan, 22
  Saint Paul, MN (Minnesota)
• Mark Pavelich, 21
  Eveleth, MN (Minnesota-Duluth)
• Buzz Schneider, 25
  Babbitt, MN (Minnesota)
• Dave Silk, 21
  Scituate, MA (Boston U)
• Eric Strobel, 21
  Rochester, MN (Minnesota)
• Phil Verchota, 22
  Duluth, MN (Minnesota)
• Mark Wells 21,
  St. Clair Shores, MI (Bowling Green)

I think a lot of these guys nowadays would already have been playing pros by these ages, or at least AHL depending on which route to the pros they chose to take. Christ, a couple there are 25! I guess I just thought it was interesting to see what they considered "kids" back then as opposed to now (17-20)

[roboturner 562]

Growing the sport long term. Growing new markets. Etc. etc.

Well are they worried about long term growth or short term profits?

Because if its long term growth, then I honestly can't think of a better way to do it than have a tournament every so often featuring the most elite players the game has to offer going head to head.

Not some cheesy All-Star game where the players don't try and nothing is on the line. You need a Tournament with real rewards and real pride on the line.

Reading through this and talking about how kids were used in 1980 for the hockey team, it got me curious. I wasn't around to see this live, so I was somewhat curious to see the ages of these guys. It seems to me, from talking to my dad about when he played, a lot of these guys actually stayed all four years at college unlike nowadays where they're there for a year or two just to get bigger and bolt to the pros. I found this and thought it was interesting:

I think a lot of these guys nowadays would already have been playing pros by these ages, or at least AHL depending on which route to the pros they chose to take. Christ, a couple there are 25! I guess I just thought it was interesting to see what they considered "kids" back then as opposed to now (17-20)

I was gonna say the same thing. This might end up leading to young players deferring their Pro starts until after the Olympics has passed. Could you imagine if Cros...(He who shall not be named), or any young talented player decided not to enter the league as soon as he could so they could get their Olympic games in while they were still allowed? Just another thing to think about.

Edited February 11, 2014 by roboturner

[wingslionstigers 12]

I didn't say Canada didn't win a gold medal, I said since the NHL has participated in the Olympics that Canada hasn't dominated, in response to the assumption that the US and Canada will panic if they don't win gold after the NHL doesn't participate. Canada hasn't won gold at the World Juniors since 2009.

I don't blame the owners for not wanting to participate. Why should they? Especially when you have players who aren't thinking about the NHL season, you know, the job that they owners are paying them for, and worrying about being healthy enough for the Olympics. The games have not brought about the surge in attention that the NHL expected. It hasn't boosted ratings. The people watching are already NHL fans. Its exciting to us as Red Wings fans because we have so many international players. But for those teams that don't? Are their fans tuning in to watch? Are the women who are watching figure skating tuning out and watching the hockey instead? No. But yet, the NHL owners are supposed to "loan" out their biggest business assets for nothing, not get a lot in return, possibly getting damaged goods back, and they're supposed to support this? Do you think the players would all be on board if they had to sacrifice a few million dollars of their own money to go? Or if getting injured would void their NHL contract? Somehow I'm thinking they wouldn't have quite as much patriotism.

So you are saying the Olympics isn't good for the NHL? The big time headlines Hockey receives across the United States and the rest of the world aren't good for hockey? The fact that most NHL fans watch and hype the Olympics up like its the Superbowl. I'm pretty sure the tv ratings for that USA and Canada gold game four years ago was incredible for hockey.

When USA makes the medal games, every city/towns newspaper in the country has it on the first page. NHL doesn't create those type of headlines because NHL is irrelevant to the USA, but the USA hockey team is competing for a gold for our country so it makes the big headlines.

______________________________________________________________________

What's this other stuff that I read some people saying about that they are in contracts and just shouldn't go? Sense when does a NHL contract mean that the players are slaves. Wow just an example of ignorance in this country. Let's keep allowing the corporations to sponsor and lobby politicians in the name of mass profit. Force things down our throats that we don't need like insane and deadily pharmaceuticals for example. In which all Americans are told they are needed on comemrcials every day and even by doctors. Doctors who were trained by pharmaceutical sponsored college books. The college book industry is dominated by the pharmaceutical companies to train doctors to virtually push pills for profits. Just because they are in a contract to play for an NHL team does not make them slaves. They are allowed to hang out with their friends, shoot some hoops which could result in injury, but they can't go play hockey for their country? Get real. Prime example of the mindset that is wrong with this country and world.

The fans pay these players salaries and if the fans want our players to go play in the Olympics than they should, bottom line. If everyone stopped being delusional we would all want that and it's our right to make happen. It was our founding fathers intentions that the people make the calls in this country and the politicians work for the people, because the people fund everything. Stop being ignorant and educate yourselves. Stop falling victim to manipulation and slavery. The Olympics is the best hockey in the world and it would be a shame to not witness it.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

What's this other stuff that I read some people saying about that they are in contracts and just shouldn't go? Sense when does a NHL contract mean that the players are slaves. Wow just an example of ignorance in this country. Let's keep allowing the corporations to sponsor and lobby politicians in the name of mass profit. Force things down our throats that we don't need like insane and deadily pharmaceuticals for example. In which all Americans are told they are needed on comemrcials every day and even by doctors. Doctors who were trained by pharmaceutical sponsored college books. The college book industry is dominated by the pharmaceutical companies to train doctors to virtually push pills for profits. Just because they are in a contract to play for an NHL team does not make them slaves. They are allowed to hang out with their friends, shoot some hoops which could result in injury, but they can't go play hockey for their country? Get real. Prime example of the mindset that is wrong with this country and world.

The fans pay these players salaries and if the fans want our players to go play in the Olympics than they should, bottom line. If everyone stopped being delusional we would all want that and it's our right to make happen. It was our founding fathers intentions that the people make the calls in this country and the politicians work for the people, because the people fund everything. Stop being ignorant and educate yourselves. Stop falling victim to manipulation and slavery. The Olympics is the best hockey in the world and it would be a shame to not witness it.

Actually, contracts could indeed stipulate that players not participate in the Olympics and that still wouldn't make the players "slaves." You're not going back far enough in the process. No players HAS to sign a contract he doesn't like. Players are free to refuse a contract, play for another team, play in another league, and to pursue another career entirely.

There was a big hullabaloo over the football player Kellen Winslow Jr. a few years back. He was injured while riding a motorcycle, which could have been a breech of contract. ESPN reported (bold mine for emphasis):

"ESPN.com senior writer Len Pasquarelli reports the availability of Winslow for the 2005 season is not the only thing at risk. Beyond the injuries, there are possible financial ramifications as well, and Winslow may have given the team an opportunity to recover a portion of his signing bonus and option bonus, if he is found to be in breach of his contract.

Section 3 of the NFL's standard player contract stipulates, in part, that a "player will not engage in … any activity other than football which may involve a significant risk of personal injury. … Player therefore agrees that club will have the right … to enjoin the player from engaging in any activity other than football which may involve a significant risk of injury."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2051653

As for the Founding Fathers intentions, you should probably research the difference between a democracy (which the U.S. is not) and a republic (which it is). Pure democracy in which "the people make the calls" as you described is mob rules and is quite dangerous to personal liberty and to those with minority opinions.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I have a few thoughts.

Players exchange certain abilities like choosing where they play and limiting their leisure activities in exchange for obscene amounts of money. All those limits are part of the CBA. They're all agreed to.

If players want to play Olympics, fine. But if they get hurt then they should have to cover their medical bills themselves and not get paid until they're healthy again. If the injury is serious, their team should be able to terminate the contract with no penalty. If I break my collar bone on my time and can't work, my boss can fire me, why should it be different for pro athletes? They should also forfeit their pay for any games they miss traveling or whatever.

I think that this is just posturing by the league to get some kind of concessions from the PA. Enough high profile players are going to want to play that the league will end up shutting down again. But it's going to cost the players something.

[Nev 1,085]

I have a few thoughts. Players exchange certain abilities like choosing where they play and limiting their leisure activities in exchange for obscene amounts of money. All those limits are part of the CBA. They're all agreed to. If players want to play Olympics, fine. But if they get hurt then they should have to cover their medical bills themselves and not get paid until they're healthy again. If the injury is serious, their team should be able to terminate the contract with no penalty. If I break my collar bone on my time and can't work, my boss can fire me, why should it be different for pro athletes? They should also forfeit their pay for any games they miss traveling or whatever. I think that this is just posturing by the league to get some kind of concessions from the PA. Enough high profile players are going to want to play that the league will end up shutting down again. But it's going to cost the players something.

1) No-one should be fired for suffering an injury out of work

2) Pro athletes are different to regular Joes like you and me. They are the top 0.001% of the population. There are only a handful of people on the planet who can do what they do. Its why they get paid so much - the demand is high, and the supply is low. Its also why it makes no sense for an athlete to pay their own medical bills, the team would be cutting off their nose to spite their face - "You sit on the sidelines not scoring any goals for my team Ovechkin, that'll teach you a lesson!"

3) The injury excuse is a COMPLETE RED HERRING. If the owners were so concerned about injuries, they wouldn't be proposing a World Cup at the end of a long and gruelling season. Y'know, a tournament just like the Olympics were their prize assets are equally likely to get injured. Except of course, they get injured making $$$$$$ for the owners.......

[wingslionstigers 12]

As for the Founding Fathers intentions, you should probably research the difference between a democracy (which the U.S. is not) and a republic (which it is). Pure democracy in which "the people make the calls" as you described is mob rules and is quite dangerous to personal liberty and to those with minority opinions

In the Constitution it no where states that the United States is a democracy or republic, Although the word "majority" is used and referred to in the Constitution several times. The only place the word "republic" is mentioned is in Article IV, Section 4. "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government." Lets not forget the word "republic" identifies some of the worst of dictatorships, authoritarian and tyrannical governments

It would be more accurate to consider it as a Democratic republic.

Regardless of your selective attention to detail this has nothing to do with anything I said. If people told the NHL that they were not going to watch games and honored their word if the players didn't go to the Olympics, than they would go to the Olympics. If Americans stood up against acts of lobbying and and political "sponsorships," than it wouldn't exist. The power is in the people they just refuse to be ignorant and let the rich run the world. Back to what you said about the people making the calls would be dangerous. Do you think it is any less dangerous for the billionaire corporations to make the calls like they currently do? No, the people need to stand up so we have a balanced government. The food full of GMO's, hormones, and pesticides that are responsible for diseases, heart conditions, etc and kill millions of people in the name of cooperate profitability. Please don't get me started.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1) No-one should be fired for suffering an injury out of work

2) Pro athletes are different to regular Joes like you and me. They are the top 0.001% of the population. There are only a handful of people on the planet who can do what they do. Its why they get paid so much - the demand is high, and the supply is low. Its also why it makes no sense for an athlete to pay their own medical bills, the team would be cutting off their nose to spite their face - "You sit on the sidelines not scoring any goals for my team Ovechkin, that'll teach you a lesson!"

3) The injury excuse is a COMPLETE RED HERRING. If the owners were so concerned about injuries, they wouldn't be proposing a World Cup at the end of a long and gruelling season. Y'know, a tournament just like the Olympics were their prize assets are equally likely to get injured. Except of course, they get injured making $$$$$$ for the owners.......

1) Why should a company hold a job indefinitely for someone who hurt themselves outside of work? if I'm not there doing my job, other people have to do extra work to make up for it or the company has to hire and train a temp to do it. If it's only going to be a couple weeks that's one thing. If I'm not going to be able to come back for 3 months, why should they hold the job that long when I got hurt playing hockey or whatever?

2) Why should the team pay the bills for an athlete who hurts themselves not playing for the team? Do the players get Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance or something? If so, fine, the insurance can cover it, but why should the team doctors take care of them for free?

3) The World Championships/World Cup is after the season. A broken finger or sprained knee there isn't going to keep a player out of NHL games. If a player gets hurt at the Olympics, it's going to cost a team games. Are you going to be happy if Kronwall misses 8 games because he got hurt playing for Sweden, the team goes 3-5-1 in that stretch, and the Wings miss the playoffs because of the tiebreaker, where one more point would have gotten them in?

Edited February 11, 2014 by DickieDunn

[sibiriak 84]

I have a few thoughts. Players exchange certain abilities like choosing where they play and limiting their leisure activities in exchange for obscene amounts of money. All those limits are part of the CBA. They're all agreed to. If players want to play Olympics, fine. But if they get hurt then they should have to cover their medical bills themselves and not get paid until they're healthy again. If the injury is serious, their team should be able to terminate the contract with no penalty. If I break my collar bone on my time and can't work, my boss can fire me, why should it be different for pro athletes? They should also forfeit their pay for any games they miss traveling or whatever. I think that this is just posturing by the league to get some kind of concessions from the PA. Enough high profile players are going to want to play that the league will end up shutting down again. But it's going to cost the players something.

Every national hockey federation, that has NHLers playing for them in the Olympics, has to take out insurance that would pay the players' NHL salaries in case of an injury. Their NHL teams are not liable for that. They will lose the services of the player, but they would not have to pay him any money.

In general, I understand why the owners have no interest in the Olympics. From their standpoint, whatever growth in popularity hockey experiences does not translate into any direct revenue for them. They risk losing some of their stars to injury, thereby reducing their teams chances of winning NHL games. The team that doesn't win enough suffers at the box office. So it's all risk for no reward for them. You'll notice, that often the NHL brass' bitching about Olympic participation is accompanied by suggestions that World Cup of hockey should be revived. Now the only difference between the Olympics and the WC of hockey is that the latter is run by the NHL, who gets to keep the profits (and is played in the summer so is less inconvenient from scheduling standpoint). The injury risk in WCH is the same or greater, since it's the offseason.

Yet the NHL owners have no problem with an international best-of-the-best competition, as long as they keep the money.

So maybe Bettman is trying to shake down the International Olympic Committee, to get some profit sharing with the NHL in the next Olympics?

Edited February 11, 2014 by sibiriak

[Guest Sinden]

The checks get written regardless. Doesn't really matter when or what the player is doing at the time. Might be a minor complaint if the break causes there to be an extra pay period prior to the trade deadline (but no games to offset it), but I'm not sure if that's the case.

The injury thing should should be a non-issue. I assume we still consider this a free country, and we are generally opposed to the notion of letting our employers dictate what risks we are allowed to take in our private lives. While I might agree with the notion of owners requiring the players bear some of the liability if they were to get injured (though I'm pretty sure they already have insurance for that), I don't think there's any justification to stop them from playing. Injuries, much less serious ones, aren't really that common. It's not an unreasonable risk.

As for the loss of interest/profits from the break; do you have any data to support that? 2010 saw record revenues, and I think 2006 did as well and that was right after the lockout year. Not sure about 98 or 02, but I know in general revenues have been skyrocketting for about 20 years now.

It's disruptive and a pain in the ass from a scheduling standpoint. Big deal. It's once every four years.

This is nothing but a power play from the owners and league, because they think of the players as property. They think any minor concern they might be able to think of matters more than anything the players might want. I'd like to say it will eventually come back on them, but it probably wont. Lockout #4 will come, the owners will win again, and by the next year no one will care.

I get that the checks are written regardless, its a figure of speech. If I own a winter season snow removal company up in Prince Albert, Canada and give you your by-weekly pay check for the two weeks you are gone just for you to come back tired, unmotivated and potentially injured and you as a business owner think this is ok then something is wrong with you. I don't care if you make up the time you missed by working more around the two weeks.

What the hell does it being a free country have to do with anything? If I employ you for the whole "season" and pay you a ridiculous amount of money to entertain for my business then I can definitely control what you do. That is what has happened, the owners have got so fed up they got their way.

Get this, If I pay you 5 million dollars to work for 3/4 of a year you are my property.

I am all for the NHL participating in the Winter Olympics. It has been huge for advertising the NHL internationally and has been a blast to watch . I am telling you the main reasons why they have for now pulled out of the Olympics. Its fact

[rrasco 1,312]

What's this other stuff that I read some people saying about that they are in contracts and just shouldn't go? Sense when does a NHL contract mean that the players are slaves. Wow just an example of ignorance in this country. Let's keep allowing the corporations to sponsor and lobby politicians in the name of mass profit. Force things down our throats that we don't need like insane and deadily pharmaceuticals for example. In which all Americans are told they are needed on comemrcials every day and even by doctors. Doctors who were trained by pharmaceutical sponsored college books. The college book industry is dominated by the pharmaceutical companies to train doctors to virtually push pills for profits. Just because they are in a contract to play for an NHL team does not make them slaves. They are allowed to hang out with their friends, shoot some hoops which could result in injury, but they can't go play hockey for their country? Get real. Prime example of the mindset that is wrong with this country and world.

The fans pay these players salaries and if the fans want our players to go play in the Olympics than they should, bottom line. If everyone stopped being delusional we would all want that and it's our right to make happen. It was our founding fathers intentions that the people make the calls in this country and the politicians work for the people, because the people fund everything. Stop being ignorant and educate yourselves. Stop falling victim to manipulation and slavery. The Olympics is the best hockey in the world and it would be a shame to not witness it.

Contracts have stipulations. Athletes do not have to sign these contracts. When they do, they agree to the terms, which in some cases limit the extracurricular activities the athlete can participate in. Calling the players slaves and going into a tangent about pharmaceuticals and what's wrong with this country have nothing to do with each other. In another forum I would agree with most of your assertions, but that's not here nor are they related to NHL contracts prohibiting players from participating in the Olympics if the owners so choose. Calling that ignorance is, well, ignorant.

Fans don't pay player salaries. You don't pay taxes to the NHL. Did you write a check to Mr. Zetterberg this morning? You might buy their product, which is then turned into revenue and used to pay for hockey resources, but then it's not your money anymore is it? Welcome to capitalism 101.

And you don't have a right to hockey when and where you want it.

[roboturner 562]

I get that the checks are written regardless, its a figure of speech. If I own a winter season snow removal company up in Prince Albert, Canada and give you your by-weekly pay check for the two weeks you are gone just for you to come back tired, unmotivated and potentially injured and you as a business owner think this is ok then something is wrong with you. I don't care if you make up the time you missed by working more around the two weeks.

What the hell does it being a free country have to do with anything? If I employ you for the whole "season" and pay you a ridiculous amount of money to entertain for my business then I can definitely control what you do. That is what has happened, the owners have got so fed up they got their way.

Get this, If I pay you 5 million dollars to work for 3/4 of a year you are my property.

I am all for the NHL participating in the Winter Olympics. It has been huge for advertising the NHL internationally and has been a blast to watch . I am telling you the main reasons why they have for now pulled out of the Olympics. Its fact

Just because you get paid alot of money doesn't mean whoever is giving it to you "owns" you. If an actor makes 20 million for a TV season, that doesn't mean you can prevent them from making movies while not shooting the TV series.

[troubadour 40]

The stupid IOC is responsible for the timezone think, not the players nor the fans why award the winter olympics to a country, that isn't even into Winter games ? Makes just as much sense as giving the games to Sochi despite all the safety concerns...

Are you referring to awarding 2018 to South Korea? They sent 71 athletes, which is something like 14th largest out of the 88 delegations. So yeah, they are into the Winter Games.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

This has been stated numerous times in different Olympic threads lately, and I will repeat what the other Mods have stated in this thread as well.

Keep threads on topic, and keep political discussion out of them. No politics. Politics and political discussion of any form is prohibited. Keep it about hockey, keep it about the NHL, and do not derail it further.

Thanks.

[toby91_ca 620]

Just because you get paid alot of money doesn't mean whoever is giving it to you "owns" you. If an actor makes 20 million for a TV season, that doesn't mean you can prevent them from making movies while not shooting the TV series.

1 - not many actors making $20M for a TV season....but, whatever they are making....2 - yes, that doesn mean they can't go making a movie if it interferes with the filming of the TV show.

That's the whole point of contention here, the NHL does not like the idea of shutting down in the middle of their season. It wouldn't be as big of a deal if the Olympics were in the off-season (some owners would still have a problem with it, but it certainly wouldn't be as big of an issue).

[roboturner 562]

1 - not many actors making $20M for a TV season....but, whatever they are making....2 - yes, that doesn mean they can't go making a movie if it interferes with the filming of the TV show.

That's the whole point of contention here, the NHL does not like the idea of shutting down in the middle of their season. It wouldn't be as big of a deal if the Olympics were in the off-season (some owners would still have a problem with it, but it certainly wouldn't be as big of an issue).

1A. The number doesn't matter, I was responding to the assertion that if you make greater than X amount of dollars, then the person who willingly gave it to you in exchange for you're service somehow has the power to stop you from doing what you professionally do.

2A. That wasn't my argument, I said if they weren't filming the TV show for say 2 months, you can't stop the Actor from taking a 6 week movie gig in the time off just because you don't like it.

3. That isn't the whole point of contention. A part of it, yes (maybe a big part of it), but not the whole point. And I understand the principle behind it, but I think any negative effects of "shutting down during the season" are just a figment of people's imaginations.

We're talking about moving from an average of 2.8 games per week for each team during non-interrupted seasons

to 3.03 games per week during Olympic years (Every 4 seasons) due to the two week break. Still the same 82 games being scheduled that they have every year.

We're talking about maybe 50 out of 600 NHL players for a whopping 8% of employees going to the Olympics (I just took these numbers out of a hat, if anybody has the real numbers I'll redo the calculations). Over 90% of NHL players are getting a two week vacation to rest/heal/recover/get healthy. And there are a few teams that are actually sending younger players to the minors to play some games over the break, so the organizations obviously aren't too worried about players getting injured playing for someone else.

As I've covered in other posts, the owners aren't actually losing any home games or mysteriously required to pay out an extra paycheck to every player. These are all non issues. Are there other issues that might be legitimate? Yeah, there are. But I think everything I've discussed in this thread should/could be resolved by using l little more brain power.

Edited February 12, 2014 by roboturner