10 ton elephant in the room.

[e_prime 1,936]

grantland.com/features/hockeys-worst-contracts/

2 RW's on there. What is interesting is Franzen and Hossa are both on the list.

Written by Sean McIndoe aka Down Goes Brown... Mr. Satire, Sarcasm, and Tounge-in-Cheek Humorist of the NHL.

So take it for what it's worth.

I will give him credit for saying that Clarkson's is the worst. He's no apologist when it comes to his own team.

[ben_usmc 253]

Alfredsson is far from useless. Anytime you can add a player who will help your team, even if it's only going to be for a year or two, you do it. His signing, and the Weiss contract, aren't the problem. Weiss's season long groin issues make Weiss a problem, but that's not something you know will happen, and any player might get hurt.

The real problem was that Holland made a bad assumption that he'd be able to trade someone when he signed Cleary. That led to no roster space or cap room for Nyquist. I said at the time that I didn't mind CLeary coming back, but the deal shouldn't have been finalized until someone was traded.

There was absolutely no way Cleary was more deserving of a roster spot than anyone else. His resigning was pathetic, and anyone who points out his "playoff warrior" status should take a deeper look at how he accumulated those points.

[anthonyn66 89]

What we should do (and the only logical thing to do at this point) is buy out Zetterberg. It's the only way we'll stay competitive the next 10 years. He's a locker room cancer, doesn't produce, I'm sick of him...

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2011/7/12/2267729/weekly-hate-zetterberg-the-malcontent

Maybe this is management's wake up call and after Z, we'll take care of Pavel 'one-dimensional' Datsyuk and Niklas 'soft' Kronwall

[Uncle Danny 155]

What we should do (and the only logical thing to do at this point) is buy out Zetterberg. It's the only way we'll stay competitive the next 10 years. He's a locker room cancer, doesn't produce, I'm sick of him...

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2011/7/12/2267729/weekly-hate-zetterberg-the-malcontent

Maybe this is management's wake up call and after Z, we'll take care of Pavel 'one-dimensional' Datsyuk and Niklas 'soft' Kronwall

You just broke my sarcasm, and it hurts.

[number9 3,297]

PleAssseeee buy out our top LW and top PWF, others teams deserve their prowess.

Move Tatar and Nyquist for Bogosian

= cup

[55fan 5,133]

PleAssseeee buy out our top LW and top PWF, others teams deserve their prowess.

Move Tatar and Nyquist for Bogosian

= cup

You forgot Lebda. No Lebda=no cup.

Seriously, the last time we won a cup (long, long ago, in an arena far away), we did it because of Z and Mule amongst others. They and Pavel and Kronwall are older and Lids is gone, but we have a new generation of hot young guns coming up. They now are providing the leadership once provided by Lids and Rafalski.

I'd say that once the kids mature a wee bit more, we're sitting better than we've been in a while. Mule, Z, Pavel, and Kronner aren't as young as they were, but they can still get it done. Mule and Z must regain their health first, but if they can do that as the kids are progressing, the future is bright.

[Guest DeGraa55]

The future is bright IF the kids all pan out(which honestly who is dumb enough to think that?). It's also bright if Franzen ever becomes something he has only been ONCE in his entire career and that's a 30+ goal scorer and with injury issue and age it's fair to say it most likely won't ever happen again.

Now z I agree if he stays healthy he is the leader you want on your team and I really don't think ANYONE would deny that.

The problem is this team needs a legit goal scorer which we don't have. I'm talking 35-40 goal scorer or more not 20-25 which this team is full of. Even if it means a guy who doesn't play defense we have plenty who do.

We also need a number one defenseman. I personally feel that can come from within but it goes back to the part If the young guys work out does one become a number one? Cause let's be honest we are not getting a number one through trade or free agency any time soon. So that brings the question can kronewall and big e be the top pair? I believe so. Not because one or the other is an elite player but because they're both very good just not like top 10 top 15 D. I also feel If Babcock pulled his head out of his ass smith and dekeyser could be second pair. Smith looked good when he was with kronwall so maybe try that and big e with dekeyser either way I think those four can be a top four.

So I guess to sum it up. This team is close if the young guys pan out we drop the old and useless in off season and add a legit goal scorer(maybe I'm surprised and it's one I the young guys...but I doubt it). Which can be done while keeping Franzen for those of you who love him but I'd still rather see him gone. If it was the difference between say jurco and Franzen? I'd take jurco. Or glendening or Sheahan or Callahan or pretty much any if the griffins lol.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Name 20 defensemen who are clearly better than Kronwall and I'll agree they don't have a #1 D. The problem is Ericsson is only adequate at #2 and while Dekeyser might get there, he's not there now.

Going back to the 10-11 season, Franzen has 80G, 165 pts in 225 games. Per 82 games, that's 29G 60 pts. Datsyuk has 72/136/208 in 210 games, per 80 he's at 28G 81 pts. Zetterberg has 73/172/245 in 253 games, 24G 79 pts per 82. So you're saying that just a few more goals so Franzen and Datsyuk were averaging 30 instead of 29 and 28 respectively would make a difference? I call BS. Fans are just too obsessed with round numbers. Too many people act like there's a big difference between 29 and 30, but no difference between 30 and 31. Vanek is only a little better per 82 games than Franzen at 31 G and 72 pts. playing a lot bigger role than he probably would here.

The difference between Franzen and Jurco is that Franzen is a proven goal scorer while Jurco just has potential. He might score 30 a year, or he might not hit 20 a year on a regular basis.

[Guest DeGraa55]

Here is a fact at the olympic break our leading goal scorer is 66th on the list at 16 goals.

Detroit in 19th for goals for....

Not good enough we need goal scorers.

I can also do that game to, in franzens first two years he scored 22 goals combined see cherry picking stats!! It's a fact that he is a 25-30 goal scorer but he isn't a 30+. He also brings nothing else but laziness to the team. Which would be find if he was actually good at scoring goals. He should be scoring 40-50 goals with no problem but can't cause he is lazy. People talk about how great z and dat are and that they elevate their line mates so why aren't they elevating Franzen? Or maybe they are and they carried the load for his laziness? For the people that actually watch game Franzen very rarely ever earns a goal. Someone usually makes an outstanding play giving him a free goal.

What's with specifically saying vanek all the time? Christ it's annoying when some says a "vanek type player". That doesn't mean it has to be him. It's just the idea of having a legit sniper that can score A LOT of goals not a mid level amount.

The difference is vanek in the last nine years has 260 goals Franzen has 173. Average them out Franzen is a 19 goal a year and vanek is a 29 goal a year. One has shown they can score more than 30 consistently. Vanek is also younger and a righty shot. All things that we need.

Now the mobile version sucks of Espn to so idk if that's each players whole career or if it only shows 9 years? But it kind of shows the difference between the to...I also couldn't see the games played difference not sure who has advantage there given the fact franzens been out a lot I hope vanek does but I wasn't able to see. I'll have to wait until I'm in computer to look.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I swear DeGraa55 and Richdg are the same person...lol

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Here is a fact at the olympic break our leading goal scorer is 66th on the list at 16 goals.

Detroit in 19th for goals for....

Not good enough we need goal scorers.

I can also do that game to, in franzens first two years he scored 22 goals combined see cherry picking stats!! It's a fact that he is a 25-30 goal scorer but he isn't a 30+. He also brings nothing else but laziness to the team. Which would be find if he was actually good at scoring goals. He should be scoring 40-50 goals with no problem but can't cause he is lazy. People talk about how great z and dat are and that they elevate their line mates so why aren't they elevating Franzen? Or maybe they are and they carried the load for his laziness? For the people that actually watch game Franzen very rarely ever earns a goal. Someone usually makes an outstanding play giving him a free goal.

What's with specifically saying vanek all the time? Christ it's annoying when some says a "vanek type player". That doesn't mean it has to be him. It's just the idea of having a legit sniper that can score A LOT of goals not a mid level amount.

The difference is vanek in the last nine years has 260 goals Franzen has 173. Average them out Franzen is a 19 goal a year and vanek is a 29 goal a year. One has shown they can score more than 30 consistently. Vanek is also younger and a righty shot. All things that we need.

Now the mobile version sucks of Espn to so idk if that's each players whole career or if it only shows 9 years? But it kind of shows the difference between the to...I also couldn't see the games played difference not sure who has advantage there given the fact franzens been out a lot I hope vanek does but I wasn't able to see. I'll have to wait until I'm in computer to look.

The Wings' leading goal scorer has 16 because all of their goal scorers have missed significant time with the exception of Tatar, not because of a lack of talent.

What a player did 6 years ago is irrelevant. The last 3 years is a far better gauge of what a player will do the following year.

The last full NHL season, Franzen had 29G, 56 pts, and was in a 3 way tie for the +/- lead on the team. Vanek had 26G, 61 pts, and was near the bottom of his team's +/- stat.

Vanek is used because he's the top pending free agent, and if you're going to say "Vanek type" you might as well use the original guy. If you want to go with Moulson or someone else, go ahead. The comparison between him and Franzen will still be the same.

It an absolute FACT that Johan Franzen is a capable goal scorer. It is an absolute FACT that there is little difference between 28 or 29 goals and 30 goals.

If you're really serious about how Franzen's goals are "gifts" then you need to pay more attention.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'll take a $4 million dollar goal scorer any day, streaky or with a history of concussions.

[Guest DeGraa55]

But you're forgetting the fact that vanek hasn't had the caliber teammates Franzen has had. In the specific year you looked at Franzen had z and dats and others vanek had? ...pomiville or however it's spelt and? Ya not near the same level. Vanek has done more with less FACT. Younger. Healthier?

You take your 20 goal a year average goal scorer who can't stay on the ice and doesn't play defense and I'll take guys that show up to play.

Hell most of you are still delusional and think we will win a cup this year.

[number9 3,297]

Hell most of you are still delusional and think we will win a cup this year.

Anyone counting us out is just as delusional

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

But you're forgetting the fact that vanek hasn't had the caliber teammates Franzen has had. In the specific year you looked at Franzen had z and dats and others vanek had? ...pomiville or however it's spelt and? Ya not near the same level. Vanek has done more with less FACT. Younger. Healthier?

You take your 20 goal a year average goal scorer who can't stay on the ice and doesn't play defense and I'll take guys that show up to play.

Hell most of you are still delusional and think we will win a cup this year.

It's called hope. And I will always have it.

It's the people who always think the grass (players) is greener elsewhere who are the problem... Never grateful or even aware of what we have...

[number9 3,297]

It's called hope. And I will always have it.

It's the people who always think the grass (players) is greener elsewhere who are the problem... Never grateful or even aware of what we have...

Take off ur rose colored glasses. This team is nothing without Lidstrom. We must trade everyone for cool new draft picks

[DickieDunn 2,571]

But you're forgetting the fact that vanek hasn't had the caliber teammates Franzen has had. In the specific year you looked at Franzen had z and dats and others vanek had? ...pomiville or however it's spelt and? Ya not near the same level. Vanek has done more with less FACT. Younger. Healthier?

You take your 20 goal a year average goal scorer who can't stay on the ice and doesn't play defense and I'll take guys that show up to play.

Hell most of you are still delusional and think we will win a cup this year.

Franzen's defense is better than Vanek's by a big step, and Vanek's offense isn't that far ahead for Franzen's. Franzen has spent just as much time with Filppula and other 2nd line caliber players as he has with Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and has been on the 2nd PP unit at times.Vanek plays more minutes and not only is he always on the first PP unit, he's their go to guy instead of just one of them.

[kipwinger 8,502]

I once saw Thomas Vanek score a goal from the moon. Conversely, I once saw Johan Franzen throw a banana at a baby and yell "here's your banana...monkey".

I think we all know who the better player is.

[Guest DeGraa55]

There's a difference between hope and crazy.

I hope we win the cup to. But facts and common sense say it's 99.9% we don't.

We are only a couple of players away from having a legit shot but holland won't make the moves necessary. We may disagree on the players but I think we all can agree on that.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

There's a difference between hope and crazy.

I hope we win the cup to. But facts and common sense say it's 99.9% we don't.

We are only a couple of players away from having a legit shot but holland won't make the moves necessary. We may disagree on the players but I think we all can agree on that.

Short of "trade the guys we don't want for good players" there aren't many decent moves available. Any trade would most likely require an over payment from what another team is willing to give up in order to make up for the other team taking back Quincey or Samuelsson to balance the salary.

That said, if they can manage to swing a trade for a d-man as good or better than Ericsson, I think that's enough to put the team over the top, assuming they're relatively healthy for the playoffs. Once the cap doesn't apply they can call up whatever kids they want.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Nyquist-Weiss-Franzen

Tatar-Helm-Alfredsson

Miller-Sheahan-Andersson/Glendening

Kronwall-Ericsson

New guy-Dekeyser

Smith-whoever

The 6th D spot can be Quincey, Kindl, Lashoff, or another trade. If Franzen is having head issues, slot Jurco into the lineup.

Edited February 19, 2014 by DickieDunn

[soonboomer 31]

Maybe it's been mentioned in this thread already, but Franzen's main perception problem is that he's a *****. A guy that big has to be one of the guys who makes a stand when you're getting pushed around, and Franzen's never been that guy. If Mule had a bit more Shanny in him, he'd be loved. Fact is though, when he's healthy, he's worth his salary.

kitten

[Echolalia 2,961]

There's a difference between hope and crazy.

I hope we win the cup to. But facts and common sense say it's 99.9% we don't.

We are only a couple of players away from having a legit shot but holland won't make the moves necessary. We may disagree on the players but I think we all can agree on that.

Facts and common sense say the Wings have a 99.9% chance of not winning the Cup?

[Guest DeGraa55]

Depends how anal you wanna be but yea. I mean to start the year every team has a 1 in 30 shot but how many actually have a shot.

I mean Detroit has a very minimal shot of even making the playoffs. But yes IF we make and IF Franzen has a freak playoff streak he has had once and a few others got hot sure we could win. But it's A LOT of ifs. Specially with serious injuries and old age. It doesn't look good at all.

[FlashyG 1,799]

Depends how anal you wanna be but yea. I mean to start the year every team has a 1 in 30 shot but how many actually have a shot.

I mean Detroit has a very minimal shot of even making the playoffs. But yes IF we make and IF Franzen has a freak playoff streak he has had once and a few others got hot sure we could win. But it's A LOT of ifs. Specially with serious injuries and old age. It doesn't look good at all.

I actually agree our chances of winning the cup are quite slim, but how would buying out one of our best players improve them?

Maybe if we signed a better scorer and needed to make room to get under the cap it could be done, but in what world does buying out Franzen then trying to replace him in Free Agency make sense?

Have you paid any attention to the prices of Free Agents the past few off-seasons? or to the fact that we can no longer get players to take discounts to come here?

We're going to be a bubble team for a couple seasons, lets just accept that and have hope that our prospects will develop into the next wave of players that will return us to the upper echelon of NHL teams.

[number9 3,297]

There's a difference between hope and crazy.

I hope we win the cup to. But facts and common sense say it's 99.9% we don't.

We are only a couple of players away from having a legit shot but holland won't make the moves necessary. We may disagree on the players but I think we all can agree on that.

Cup favored eastern team, ravaged by injuries, yet still in a wildcard spot. For you that equals 0.1% cup chance???? God bless LGW, it's like the circus with extra clowns.