DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 My apologies. My point was simply that the trade was of a benefit to us now because our C group looks substantially better with Legwand as opposed to entirely taken from GR. You are not wrong, most people agree with you. The ones that don't..... yeah, not gonna go there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Haven't said much in this thread but I will say this... We are fickle fans. We demand Holland make more trades for impact players but then crucify him if we have to give up anything of value. The trade was never going to be Eaves a 3rd and Ferraro/marginal prospect. Nobody wants that. There's next to no value in that trade. We can all debate future and potential but none of that is certain so it's all conjecture for now. Legwand would be a core piece and top 6 guy on any team in this league. He is that good whether people want to admit that or not. No he's not a flashy/sexy player like Vanek, but he also isn't a known, pure rental and probably(hopefully) has a future here I also have faith they wouldn't have made this deal if they weren't confident he will re-sign here. No that does not equate to him being a shoe-in to come here in the off-season regardless of the trade or not. It means a lot to a player when a team pursues and "wants" you and is willing to give up assets to get you. It sends a message. Anyone can throw money come UFA time. Combine that with our culture, great group of very well-liked and respected leadership group, young future players and the fact that his he's from Michigan and you've got a great appeal and likeliness to re-sign. Starting next season (possibly this post-season if we can get healthy) we are going to have a very talented and deep group of forwards and I personally cannot wait to see what they are capable of. 9 Ally, e_prime, sjr2012 and 6 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 The graph previously posted shows the number of trades has nothing to do woth success or winning Cups. You've got winners all along that spectrum. 1 DannyD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslionstigers 12 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 He didn't perform well in 19 games in the World Championships (which is made up of junior players) but did perform well in more than 19 games in the AHL (made up of professionals). I'm not sure what your point is here? That a couple years ago, in a small sub-sample, he didn't perform well? Agreed. But it's equally true that he's now playing much better hockey in a much more difficult league. Any value he lost (not sure he did), he regained by being a stud over his last 36 games with the Griffins. 2011-12 Brynäs SHL 50 16 23 39 22 -3 | Playoffs 16 4 12 16 12 12 Sweden EHT 6 1 1 2 2 -2 | Sweden WC 8 0 1 1 0 0 | Sweden (all) International 18 2 3 5 2 -6 | 2012-13 Brynäs SHL 53 13 29 42 12 -2 | Playoffs 4 0 0 0 6 -3 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 9 0 3 3 0 3 | Sweden EHT 5 0 2 2 2 2 | Sweden WC 10 0 1 1 4 -2 | Sweden (all) International 16 0 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 2011-12 Brynäs SHL 50 16 23 39 22 -3 | Playoffs 16 4 12 16 12 12 Sweden EHT 6 1 1 2 2 -2 | Sweden WC 8 0 1 1 0 0 | Sweden (all) International 18 2 3 5 2 -6 | 2012-13 Brynäs SHL 53 13 29 42 12 -2 | Playoffs 4 0 0 0 6 -3 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 9 0 3 3 0 3 | Sweden EHT 5 0 2 2 2 2 | Sweden WC 10 0 1 1 4 -2 | Sweden (all) International 16 0 2 2 Last year and the year before at any level. Not impressive no arguing that. Go look up Zetterberg, Backstrom, Johanson, and other top Swedes when they played at the same level at the same age. Not comparable. Please post a game by game for his last 36 in the AHL I would be curious to see it as I have not yet found it. Kids? Is that more of you making things up to defend your case? His play back a few years was impacted by his size, which is not a tremendous issue for him anymore. Jarnkrok is a great prospect, there really shouldn't be a need to try and downplay his talent. The whole situation comes down to several reasons that are largely just based on opinions, Bad Trade: 1. You think this season is a loss already, and should have kept future potential. 2. You think Legwand is only going to play 20 games with the Red Wings and the Wings lost Jarnkrok for nothing. 3. You like Legwand, but are sold on Jarnkrok becoming a top line center. Good Trade. 1. You like Legwand, and think the evidence is there that he will resign. 2. Wings filled an immediate need by giving up a player that wouldn't fill that need for years. etc. Personally I think Jarnkrok was a great prospect his play the last few months has been fantastic, he's great with the puck, his defense is very underrated, his skating is good, there isn't a negative about him other than he's not going out and hammering people into the boards, but I also felt the Wings need for a center for the present season, outweighed the risk of hoping the development of Jarnkrok a few years down the road. 5 NYC Wings Fanatic, number9, kipwinger and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 If you want Dats and Z winning a cup before they retire, the trade was right. If Weiss becomes the player he was then we have an incredible veteran top 6.Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Alfredsson (all three could reach, or be close to, point per game)Weiss - Legwand - Franzen (all could hit 60+ points)Then you have our bottom 6 made up of superb young scorers and grinders to choose from: Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, sheahan, Miller, Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Andersson.Howard and Gus have both struggled with our D (The arguments that Gus is better bc he has "happened" to win more games while in net is ridiculous to me, the skater are not, or at least should not be, affected by the man in the net, I strike it up to coincidence)We fix the D and this team is a powerhouse 2 sjr2012 and LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 I didn't want Calle to go, but it had to be done. The biggest thing bumming me out is I started following him on Twitter about 3 hours before he was traded. Nice foreshadowing Twitter. 1 Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckloo39 5,686 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 The graph previously posted shows the number of trades tirades has nothing to do with success or winning Cups. You've got winners all along that spectrum. we have more than enough of one, but apparently not enough of the other. I wish there had been a quality D man out there, but there wasn't. Kenny did fine by picking up Legwand, who is hopefully less breakable than some of our current forwards. 1 NYC Wings Fanatic reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Internet.Unknown 422 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 I didn't want Calle to go, but it had to be done. The biggest thing bumming me out is I started following him on Twitter about 3 hours before he was traded. Nice foreshadowing Twitter. Aha! So it's your fault he was traded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOzzieGo 22 Report post Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) "Weiss - Legwand - Franzen (all could hit 60+ points)" I think you have lofty expectations. Legwand has reached 60+ points in a season only once, and that was 8 seasons ago. At age 33/34, do you expect him to suddenly get so much better? And Franzen has never reached 60 points in a season in his entire career. Edited March 11, 2014 by GoOzzieGo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted March 12, 2014 I think you have lofty expectations. Legwand has reached 60+ points in a season only once, and that was 8 seasons ago. At age 33/34, do you expect him to suddenly get so much better? And Franzen has never reached 60 points in a season in his entire career. The word "could" does not mean I expect anything Legwand has also been on pace for 60+ three separate seasons, and has never played in a system with good wingers until now. Franzen has been on pace for over 60 twice and is on pace for 70+ right now. So yeah it's something that "could" happen, especially if all this bad injury juju stops 1 Carman reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted March 14, 2014 I think you have lofty expectations. Legwand has reached 60+ points in a season only once, and that was 8 seasons ago. At age 33/34, do you expect him to suddenly get so much better? And Franzen has never reached 60 points in a season in his entire career. The word "could" does not mean I expect anything Legwand has also been on pace for 60+ three separate seasons, and has never played in a system with good wingers until now. Franzen has been on pace for over 60 twice and is on pace for 70+ right now. So yeah it's something that "could" happen, especially if all this bad injury juju stops All I can say is packaging Jarnkrok with a first could have given us Amac and defensive help should have been the number 1 priority going forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted March 14, 2014 All I can say is packaging Jarnkrok with a first could have given us Amac and defensive help should have been the number 1 priority going forward. I have to disagree. What would have happened if we had got Amac for that? Then Andersson still goes down, we don't even have a number one/two centre anymore. Bye bye playoffs. This way, we're still in contention, and, we can get Legwand re-signed then this deal looks all the better. Plus, what's not to say that Amac was looking for his big payday on the free agent market? Everyone finally knows who he is and what he can do, and there's not a lot out there defensive wise. If he walked, then we've just given up a legitimate prospect and a first, all for what? 2 months of better D. This way, if we re-sign Legwand, we get better depth up front now and moving forward. 2 DatsyukianDekes and NYC Wings Fanatic reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,205 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 I like this deal better now that we're struggling. The logic being, Holland might've turned Jarnkrok into several seasons of service from David Legwand (who we'd probably appreciate much more with a fully healthy forward corps) and a really good first-round draft pick who might be better than Jarnkrok (provided we miss the playoffs, of course). 1 NYC Wings Fanatic reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireCaptain 563 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Skeletor approves of Calle and thinks he'll probably see NHL ice this season. Where is this comparison to Z coming from? “I’m not going to make any promises,” Trotz said. “But what I saw of him, and if he continues to play like he has been, I would say that from my standpoint, if we had some injuries I would like to take a look at him.” The fact that the Predators were able to get a player some have compared to Red Wings captain Henrik Zetterberg was seen as a steal in many NHL circles. http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140317/SPORTS02/303170065/Jarnkrok-off-blazing-start-Predators-affiliate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Where is this comparison to Z coming from? “I like to think of him like a Zetterberg. He wants to have the puck, he wants to hold onto the puck all the time, he makes plays (for his linemates) and he knows how to score himself.” — Red Wings scout Ari Vuori (June 2010) “He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” — Red Wings assistant GM Jim Nill (May 2012, MLive.com) The Red Wings have likened Jarnkrok to Henrik Zetterberg and the potential is there for the hard-working, highly-skilled center to emerge as a front-line NHL talent over the next five years. -- RWC RWC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 “I like to think of him like a Zetterberg. He wants to have the puck, he wants to hold onto the puck all the time, he makes plays (for his linemates) and he knows how to score himself.” — Red Wings scout Ari Vuori (June 2010) “He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” — Red Wings assistant GM Jim Nill (May 2012, MLive.com) The Red Wings have likened Jarnkrok to Henrik Zetterberg and the potential is there for the hard-working, highly-skilled center to emerge as a front-line NHL talent over the next five years. -- RWC RWC Yeah. Red Wing peeps like to make these comparisons. Jurco’s been compared to Hossa. Backman to Edler Pulkinnen to Hull Mantha to Vanek And on and on. To tired and lazy to post links. It’s like music. When a band gets compared to Led Zeppelin, it doesn’t mean they are as good. Jarnkrok will be nowhere as good as Z. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Yeah. Red Wing peeps like to make these comparisons. Jurco’s been compared to Hossa. Backman to Edler Pulkinnen to Hull Mantha to Vanek And on and on. To tired and lazy to post links. It’s like music. When a band gets compared to Led Zeppelin, it doesn’t mean they are as good. Jarnkrok will be nowhere as good as Z. Oh I'm with ya. I was just showing where those comparisons were from. I could see Jarnkrok develop into a lesser version of Ryan O'Reilly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireCaptain 563 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks for providing those. “I like to think of him like a Zetterberg. He wants to have the puck, he wants to hold onto the puck all the time, he makes plays (for his linemates) and he knows how to score himself.” — Red Wings scout Ari Vuori (June 2010) “He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” — Red Wings assistant GM Jim Nill (May 2012, MLive.com) The Red Wings have likened Jarnkrok to Henrik Zetterberg and the potential is there for the hard-working, highly-skilled center to emerge as a front-line NHL talent over the next five years. -- RWC RWC I can appreciate the comparisons about so-and-so is the next blah-blah. I think it easily allows people to conjure up an idea of what a player may be like without getting technical since we're not all NHL scouts. Do they all work out? No. Interesting to read? Yes, mostly. Yeah. Red Wing peeps like to make these comparisons. Jurco’s been compared to Hossa. Backman to Edler Pulkinnen to Hull Mantha to Vanek And on and on. To tired and lazy to post links. It’s like music. When a band gets compared to Led Zeppelin, it doesn’t mean they are as good. Jarnkrok will be nowhere as good as Z. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,205 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 No one thought Z would be half as good as he's become. JUST SAIYAN 2 RedWang and TheXym reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 No one thought Z would be half as good as he's become. JUST SAIYAN But then Z's scoring level went over 9000 and now everyone loves him 2 RedWang and Namingway reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,914 Report post Posted March 18, 2014 how many "next Gretzky's" have we heard about too? I do believe Jarnkrok will have a good career, but there is no need to compare him to anyone. For Nashville's sake, I hope it works out because they traded their franchise player for him. 2 PredsFanTheBayouState and WingsAlways reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saven 48 Report post Posted March 20, 2014 Wow leftwinger I never thought of it that way. Leggy was the face of that team and they traded him for a pick and a prospect. They had better hope to hell that pans out or fans will not be happy. I can only imagine if we'd have traded yzerman for a pick and prospect and they would have been a bust we'd still be talking about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted March 20, 2014 Weber and Rinne are the faces of the team. 1 PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,458 Report post Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Weber and Rinne are the faces of the team. Not that it matters much, but I don't think he's wrong in saying that Legwand was the face of their team. He was with them for 15 years, leads their team in games played, goals, assists, points, and who was an alternate captain. Certainly more so than Rhinne, and probably on par with Weber. I sort of see it as being like Dats and Z, neither really being "the face" over the other. But that's just my opinion on the matter. Edited March 20, 2014 by kipwinger 1 TheDetroitRedWings reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites