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Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd



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#861 Shaman

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:51 PM

 

Again, you're making assumptions about me that aren't true. No wonder you can't win a debate. For years I've stated that Holland is overrated. I think Bowman (and others) had much more to do with building the championship teams than Holland ever had.

 

I've simply been pointing out your (and nyquistcantusethespacebar's) absurd whining about the Legwand deal and the importance of the playoff streak to the Wings' organization.

 

1. The Wings have a better shot at keeping the streak alive with Legwand than without. It's still far from guaranteed.

2. Jarnkrok may turn into a bust. The future isn't written.

3. Moving up/down 5-7 places in the draft isn't going the break the franchise. Get a grip.

I'll just point out this isn't a debate. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#862 Son of a Wing

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:13 PM

I'll just point out this isn't a debate. 

 

Debate: : a discussion between people in which they express different opinions about something

 

Merriam Webster


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
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When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#863 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:15 PM

 

Quick! Someone call Mr. I. We've found the Red Wings next GM. Let Illitch know that frankgrimes is willing to throw away a 22-year playoff streak to move up 5-7 places in the draft. #winning


 

Pure speculation. You have no way of knowing that. Keep posting baseless accusations and emotional tantrums, though. Good stuff! By the way, you're still here 24 hours after you said you were off to find a new team. Just a friendly reminder.

 

Quick! I'm so funny I need to use pseudo hashtags and have no other arguments. I'm sure Holland could need some positive apoligist letters today might as well copy it 1.000 times and thank him as often ...

 

If you can't get your point accross without using personal insults might as well say nothing, seriously.

 

btw. longterm future > streak


Edited by frankgrimes, 06 March 2014 - 05:18 PM.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#864 Shaman

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

 

Debate: : a discussion between people in which they express different opinions about something

 

Merriam Webster

a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated byopposing speakers.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#865 wings4thecup06

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

 

I respect your opinion like everyones else but the point for me is:

 

This season is toast, Pasha and Z are hurt IF they return for the playoffs (if we make them) both are going to have some catchup to do during the hardest part of the season. We are not going to win anything this year so I would be fine with missing the playoffs and get a better draft pick in an already - according to some TSN experts - weak one.

 

Last season Holland said, every team wants the next Lucic and more size, grit and toughness but such guys need to be developed, well Burke, Mac Tavish are just trading for them. Grit, Toughness and size is the easiest part to fix and yet Kenny has failed in doing so since the days of Dmac and Downey - unexcusable.

 

He likes our youth? Now he does before the season the guy was quoted saying "the kids aren't the answer" if not for the injuries Nyquist would still be playing in the AHL and Tatar would have pulled a Kovalchuck. I'm extremely worried about the upcoming draft and UFA period now. I can see it Mantha for Jagr and a second rounder. Sure a guy like Ehrhoff would have had a higher pricetag but fixed our weakest spot = puck moving defenceman who isn't atrocious in his own end.

 

Holland did some great things for this franchise, as did Bowmann but I think it's time for him to move up for a guy with almost endless resources given by the best owner he should have done a better job, period.

 

As for Kesler I'm glad we didn't trade for him the price would have been to high and the guy is for sure looking for a big raise think about 7  x 7 after his contract is done.

 

I too respect the fact we differ on such things but you can never ever count out any team once they get in - see LA 2012. And with the way we played in the playoffs last year I wouldn't count anything out. Yes it'll be tough without Z, but no one ever said we couldn't make it. Right now we are right on the bubble with games in hand, so let's not forget that. And if we play stifling defence ala in Montreal, then why can't we get in, get everyone healthy, (mostly) and make a charge? We'll be deep as hell down the middle, and talented underdogs. 

 

I don't feel the need to throw in the towel just for the sake of a better draft pick. We all know that good picks are mandated mainly by the scouting staff and not just the position of the pick. Obviously top 10 gets you something better than late 1st, but really we all know the draft is a crapshoot. IMO if there's a chance to make the playoffs you have to go for it, which is exactly what KH did yesterday by getting Legwand

 

Back to your point about Burke, what exactly did his tirade of 'truculence', 'belligerence', and general war chanting get him and for the Leafs? A new job in Calgary and a lack of success. Granted the Leafs are now better than they have been for a while, but are they really going anywhere? 

 

And just exactly how easy is it to trade for legitimate guys with grit who also have the ability to pop in a goal or two? These guys are pretty rare commodities, and as such are valued accordingly. hence why the price for Kesler was/is so high. I'd be interested to see what happens to him in the summer though, especially if the Canucks don't make it. 

 

If KH did say the kids weren't the answer, then that's fair enough. But he should be given credit for going with these guys mid season when it was clearly obvious that we needed it due to injuries and guys like Cleary and Bert weren't getting it done anymore. It's one thing to make mistakes, but another to learn from them. The kid line has arguably been our best the last couple of months

 

While I will criticise KH for the moves I don't feel were justified (see resigning Cleary, the Weiss deal, trading for Q), I still have faith and yesterday showed us that KH still wants to win just as much as anyone. As a fan, you cannot fault that, because that is the entire reason we have a 22 year streak in the first place. 


temp 1

 


#866 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:47 PM

Wow just heard the holland interview so much bs In there man says he was projected to be bottom 6 guy? Lol since when? .... Says there was no room for him to be here with sheahans emergence jurco etc ... (If it weren't for the injuries we'd still be unsure about both of them, could of given janrkrok a stint)

Names all these guys an excuse yet he then says we're gonna explore the ufa market lmao kept going on after about how how were trying to get into the playoffs and kept stuttering ... Does it does it does does it smack of panic like you said ? I don't think so ..... Lol stutter much?

Didnt like what he had to say .... It's 14 minutes if anyone wants to listen to it

#867 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:53 PM

 

I too respect the fact we differ on such things but you can never ever count out any team once they get in - see LA 2012. And with the way we played in the playoffs last year I wouldn't count anything out. Yes it'll be tough without Z, but no one ever said we couldn't make it. Right now we are right on the bubble with games in hand, so let's not forget that. And if we play stifling defence ala in Montreal, then why can't we get in, get everyone healthy, (mostly) and make a charge? We'll be deep as hell down the middle, and talented underdogs. 

 

I don't feel the need to throw in the towel just for the sake of a better draft pick. We all know that good picks are mandated mainly by the scouting staff and not just the position of the pick. Obviously top 10 gets you something better than late 1st, but really we all know the draft is a crapshoot. IMO if there's a chance to make the playoffs you have to go for it, which is exactly what KH did yesterday by getting Legwand

 

Back to your point about Burke, what exactly did his tirade of 'truculence', 'belligerence', and general war chanting get him and for the Leafs? A new job in Calgary and a lack of success. Granted the Leafs are now better than they have been for a while, but are they really going anywhere? 

 

And just exactly how easy is it to trade for legitimate guys with grit who also have the ability to pop in a goal or two? These guys are pretty rare commodities, and as such are valued accordingly. hence why the price for Kesler was/is so high. I'd be interested to see what happens to him in the summer though, especially if the Canucks don't make it. 

 

If KH did say the kids weren't the answer, then that's fair enough. But he should be given credit for going with these guys mid season when it was clearly obvious that we needed it due to injuries and guys like Cleary and Bert weren't getting it done anymore. It's one thing to make mistakes, but another to learn from them. The kid line has arguably been our best the last couple of months

 

While I will criticise KH for the moves I don't feel were justified (see resigning Cleary, the Weiss deal, trading for Q), I still have faith and yesterday showed us that KH still wants to win just as much as anyone. As a fan, you cannot fault that, because that is the entire reason we have a 22 year streak in the first place. 

 

The thing with LA 12 is this:

Before the start of the regular season many people had them as one if not the cup favorite, LA simply underachieved in the regular season then added Carter and got hot at the right time. Their situation is different in so many ways:

 

- goaltending: elite

- defense: WOW

- middle: size, grit and goalscoring touch

LA is perfectly built for the playoffs.

 

Throwing in the towel doesn't mean to cheer for losing (at least for me) it just means accepting reality and thinking about the longterm future. Good thing you've brought up the Maple Leafs remember their JF he traded away youth for shortterm fixes and what happened? They've foudn themselves outside of the playoffs for almost a decade. Burke got fired there for a lot of understandable reasons, he is more concerned about his image in the press than the team, players he is representing. I'm not a fan of him (think he is arrogant and a showman) but I give credit where its due.

 

We may also differ in our expectations of what a fourth line should be/provide. Personally I would want them to be knuckleheads, big mammoths (Macintyre, McGrattan, Scottlike..) and as tough as they come preferable 3 enforcers in order to keep the Cookes, Cowens!!!! and Neils of this league in check and honest. The benefits are a very cheap serious 4 line other teams will fear AND more importantly more money for your more important top 9. So in this case yes, I do agree with Burkie.

 

Mark my words the Kesler situation will turn out to become Luongo #2, Gillis (again) tried to played GMs against each other and lost. Now he has to use his old "we didn't get serious offers" BS in order to save face. Yesterday would have been the day to trade Kesler his value will never be as high Gillis simply blew it.

 

I would give Holland credit, if Nyquist would have started the season with the Wings the youth and Dekeyser (who thanks god wanted to be a Red Wing) saved his ass last season. Saying the kids are NOW the answer is nice but why trade away our best center prospect? This just doesn't make sense to me. At least to me the streak is not more important than the longterm future and if the youth is used as assets package them and fix the damn defense.

 

Trust me when I say this, I want this franchise to be a cup contender every single year but I also know the reality and the reality is this team is getting up their in age quickly with that more and more injuries will happen. This is also the reason, why I think better (lower) draft picks are so important at some point we need to replace two superstar centers :(


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#868 Dave

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:04 PM

 

I would give Holland credit, if Nyquist would have started the season with the Wings the youth and Dekeyser (who thanks god wanted to be a Red Wing) saved his ass last season. Saying the kids are NOW the answer is nice but why trade away our best center prospect? This just doesn't make sense to me. At least to me the streak is not more important than the longterm future and if the youth is used as assets package them and fix the damn defense.

 

Because management obviously didn't feel he was that great of a prospect. Disagree with their assessment all you will, but they usually know what they're doing. Dats and Z made the NHL roster at 22 and produced. Jarnkrok is all ready 22 and has yet to see an NHL game. Just because he's our supposed best center prospect doesn't make him an elite prospect.



#869 darkmanx

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:18 PM

tumblr_n20ugod0bD1rnkip6o1_500.jpg



#870 bogeygolfer

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:25 PM

name the prospect that holland traded that turned into anything special



#871 joesuffP

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:29 PM

Leino. Board was devastated when they let him go

Edited by joesuffP, 06 March 2014 - 07:29 PM.


#872 Ally

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:37 PM

I'm so confused at how all the armchair GMs would have gone about repeatedly getting something for nothing.

 
"Everything he does is exciting to watch.” -Holmstrom describes Datsyuk


#873 PredsFanTheBayouState

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:40 PM

tumblr_n20ugod0bD1rnkip6o1_500.jpg

Please don't make me start crying again,i'm still in shock that legwand is no longer a pred


Edited by PredsFanTheBayouState, 06 March 2014 - 07:40 PM.


#874 DickieDunn

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:40 PM

name the prospect that holland traded that turned into anything special

Fleischmann is the best.  Mathias and Quincey are the only other 2 I can think of.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#875 wings4thecup06

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:46 PM

If we're counting picks then you can add Mike Green to that list…..


temp 1

 


#876 bogeygolfer

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:06 PM

If we're counting picks then you can add Mike Green to that list…..

no, we arent.



#877 canadian wings fan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

I'm stoked we're getting Leggy, now lets see what he can do



#878 bogeygolfer

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:09 PM

Fleischmann is the best.  Mathias and Quincey are the only other 2 I can think of.

I rest my case. Fleishcmaann and mathias arent special and quicey was waived.



#879 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:09 PM

I rest my case. Fleishcmaann and mathias arent special and quicey was waived.


Everyone hates Quincey

#880 kipwinger

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:58 PM

Well just got back from a business trip.  Heard about this, but didn't have access to it.  VERY, stupid trade.  Why O Why do we never "overpay" for top end players but ALWAYS overpay for depth? 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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