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Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd



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#981 Nev

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:09 AM

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Would be interesting to see an overlay of success on that chart.  Because for all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on here, no-one has won more games, got more points, been to more finals, and won more cups, than Detroit in that span.

 

I think the Sharks might be 2nd in points in that time span.  Other than that, there's no discernable pattern.  The Ducks who've been average to very good in that period are top, right next to the Panthers, who've been terrible.  Other perennial losers like the BJs, Coyotes and Thrashers are above average too.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#982 RusDRW

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:58 AM

I just took a look at the last two goals Pulkkinen scored. Those are unbelievable shots. We saved ourselves a better player in this trade.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#983 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:55 AM

The Wings desperately needed a center, Holland went out and got the best one available for this team.  We don't know if he had to add Jarnkrok or that 3rd rounder because some other team also made an offer and that was what it took to make the trade.  What's done is done and now this team has a fighting chance to make the playoffs.  I just hope Legwand re-signs after this season because that would give this team incredible center depth when healthy.



#984 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

I just took a look at the last two goals Pulkkinen scored. Those are unbelievable shots. We saved ourselves a better player in this trade.


Not a question of saving a player over the other .... Jarnkrok pulkkinen "coulda" been a nice duo ....we'll likely have to draft his future center linemate now unless sheahan keeps progressing and becomes a top 6 but I don't see him as a playmaking center .... Maybe we can target backstrom if he ever becomes a ufa

#985 Echolalia

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:59 AM

I don't know how much stock is put into Khan on the boards but I personally think he's one of the more reputable sports writers in the area. Anyway, he mentioned that the deal was finalized one minute before the deadline in this article:
http://www.mlive.com...d_to_retur.html
Excerpt: "[Legwand] said he first heard of the potential deal at 12:30 p.m. Wednesday and it was completed a minute before the 3 p.m. deadline."

If that's the case it sounds like there wasn't much room for haggling. It may have been Jarnkrok, 2nd/3rd and Eaves or no deal.

Edited by Echolalia, 09 March 2014 - 11:00 AM.


#986 DickieDunn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:37 AM

Yeah, it was finished right before 3:00, but Holland said he called Poile around 12:30.  That's plenty of time to talk.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#987 Echolalia

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:56 AM

Yeah, it was finished right before 3:00, but Holland said he called Poile around 12:30.  That's plenty of time to talk.

I'm sure there was lots of talking, but even if these talks started two weeks ago, if a deal isn't finalized until the last possible minute, it tells me one side isn't happy with what's on the table, and is agreeing only from necessity. If Holland was truly happy settling with Jarnkrok, 2nd/3rd and Eaves, the deal probably would have been submitted sooner. In all likelyhood, Holland was trying to work Polie down and Polie wasn't budging. Of course this is all speculation on my part, so who knows what actually happened, but I still think the last minute deal submission is telling.

#988 DickieDunn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:12 PM

Or Poile was set on getting Sproul or one of the younger guys on the Wings roster instead of Jarnkrok and Holland wouldn't budge so Poile caved at the last minute.

 

The people unhappy with the deal are basing it on the idea that because Jarnkrok is going to be a top line center because he was their best center prospect and the idea that Holland didn't work Poile down from what was asked for.  We don't know either is true, but based on Holland's comments the Wings didn't necessarily view him as likely to reach that high end potential.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#989 uncle ovipositor

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:51 PM

And at least 6 of the trades in that chart are for Samuelson.

 

The Wings have done pretty well as a team focussed on drafting, not trading. The last couple of years they've needed some trades, but they haven't pulled it off well - I mean, I'm sure Tootoo was a bargain, but he's also still Jordin Tootoo. Legwand seems like a good deal to me, and even if he's not a fix for everything that's wrong with the team he might be a sign that Holland's getting better at that part of the job.

 

Having a cap makes where players are willing to go a bigger factor (see: Edmonton), and while a lot of players might not want to live in Detroit, this is the sort of hockey team that can make a move worth it just based on that. That said, missing the playoffs would adversely affect that formula.



#990 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:00 PM

Or Poile was set on getting Sproul or one of the younger guys on the Wings roster instead of Jarnkrok and Holland wouldn't budge so Poile caved at the last minute.
 
The people unhappy with the deal are basing it on the idea that because Jarnkrok is going to be a top line center because he was their best center prospect and the idea that Holland didn't work Poile down from what was asked for.  We don't know either is true, but based on Holland's comments the Wings didn't necessarily view him as likely to reach that high end potential.


Doubt Nashville went for a defensemen seeing as there main area of concern is scoring ... Defensemen wise there more than fine

I won't pay attention to Hollands comments obviously he's gonna make it sound like we didn't give up much .... You think people would be happy if he said we think jarnkrok is gonna be a big time player in this
League but we needed immediate help now due to pav being out as well as helm and hank .... People would of been pissed off

Tis way it's like we gave up some chump bottom 6 guy and people are like ya cool whatever then

#991 darkmanx

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:33 AM

Doubt Nashville went for a defensemen seeing as there main area of concern is scoring ... Defensemen wise there more than fine

I won't pay attention to Hollands comments obviously he's gonna make it sound like we didn't give up much .... You think people would be happy if he said we think jarnkrok is gonna be a big time player in this
League
but we needed immediate help now due to pav being out as well as helm and hank .... People would of been pissed off

Tis way it's like we gave up some chump bottom 6 guy and people are like ya cool whatever then

 

Because maybe he's not ? He will most likely be a 40-60 point 2nd line center.



#992 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:20 AM

Because maybe he's not ? He will most likely be a 40-60 point 2nd line center.


Ok

#993 Dave

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:21 AM

 

Because maybe he's not ? He will most likely be a 40-60 point 2nd line center.

 

Dude, don't even try. It's like slamming your head against a brick wall.



#994 kipwinger

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:48 AM

 

Because maybe he's not ? He will most likely be a 40-60 point 2nd line center.

 

 

Doubt Nashville went for a defensemen seeing as there main area of concern is scoring ... Defensemen wise there more than fine

I won't pay attention to Hollands comments obviously he's gonna make it sound like we didn't give up much .... You think people would be happy if he said we think jarnkrok is gonna be a big time player in this
League but we needed immediate help now due to pav being out as well as helm and hank .... People would of been pissed off

Tis way it's like we gave up some chump bottom 6 guy and people are like ya cool whatever then

 

I don't know how any of you could possibly know what type of player he's going to be one way or another.  People used to have the same arguments about Tatar and Nyquist, and before that Filppula and Hudler.  Fact is, you just don't know this early in his career what type of player he's going to be. 

 

Secondly, it's entirely possible that he could be BOTH a big time player in the NHL as one of you suggested and a 40-60 pt. player as the other suggested.  If Jarnkrok was scoring 25-30 goals a season and another 25-30 assists PLUS good defense wouldn't that make him a "big time player"?  

 

Stop arguing, neither of you know what he'll turn into and truthfully you're both pretty close to each other when you decide to speculate what he'll be. 

 

Truth is, we traded long term potential for short term gain.  Apparently Holland believed it was preferable to lose the potential of a top flight center (Jarnkrok's upside) for a chance to sneak into the playoffs this year.  Personally, I think it's a bad decision but you're welcome to disagree.  But to try and make it seem like Jarnkrok was a B prospect, or that Legwand is a horrible trade (or a savior of one), is both incorrect and intellectually beneath each of you.


Edited by kipwinger, 10 March 2014 - 10:50 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#995 NYC Wings Fanatic

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

 

 

 

I don't know how any of you could possibly know what type of player he's going to be one way or another.  People used to have the same arguments about Tatar and Nyquist, and before that Filppula and Hudler.  Fact is, you just don't know this early in his career what type of player he's going to be. 

 

Secondly, it's entirely possible that he could be BOTH a big time player in the NHL as one of you suggested and a 40-60 pt. player as the other suggested.  If Jarnkrok was scoring 25-30 goals a season and another 25-30 assists PLUS good defense wouldn't that make him a "big time player"?  

 

Stop arguing, neither of you know what he'll turn into and truthfully you're both pretty close to each other when you decide to speculate what he'll be. 

 

Truth is, we traded long term potential for short term gain.  Apparently Holland believed it was preferable to lose the potential of a top flight center (Jarnkrok's upside) for a chance to sneak into the playoffs this year.  Personally, I think it's a bad decision but you're welcome to disagree.  But to try and make it seem like Jarnkrok was a B prospect, or that Legwand is a horrible trade (or a savior of one), is both incorrect and intellectually beneath each of you.

I am of the camp that believes that prospects, as tantalizing as they are, are never a sure thing. The Wings are trying desperately to keep the playoff appearance streak alive, and in many ways, aside from this being hockey credentials based, I think that they also see this as a business /marketing goal in promoting the Wings "brand". Granted, Jarnkrok seems to have excellent skills, but we all know how far skill alone takes a player (Jiri Hudler, Ville Leino, Damien Brunner, Fabian Brunnstrom, etc). There are many players who on paper look incredibly intriguing, with lots of potential that never gets realized due to all kinds of X factors that we are never aware of as fans. 

 

I do think that KH did "overpay" in pure value for value, but I also think that he felt that his hands were tied, and that the need for a good, although not great center who was available and resignable was too great need at this time. The perfect storm of injuries this year was discouraging to see, but maybe the Wings can put on a burst like last year and give us some degree of consolation going into these playoffs. 


Edited by NYC Wings Fanatic, 10 March 2014 - 04:34 PM.


#996 wingslionstigers

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:50 PM

Please tell more more about how Jarnkrok in the past 2 years was showing any signs of becoming a top six forward. Sweden WC-A stats over two years, 2 points in 19 games. Probability of success C, Talent 7.5. A couple years ago he was highly praised for his potential, he hasn't lived up to his potential so far. WHY do you people think he was SO good? Please give me legit sources claiming he was going to take Zetterbergs spot or be anything close to that.

He was worth Legwand, especially the situation the team is in needing a center so badly if we have any hope of making the playoffs. You guys just don't understand the side effects of this team missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years and how it will affect our young guys. Who we are training to become winners. You really want this teams mindset next year to get back into the playoffs? Or do you want it to be make the playoffs for the 24th time and continue and hand off that tradition to our young guys.
 



#997 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:50 PM

I don't know how any of you could possibly know what type of player he's going to be one way or another.  People used to have the same arguments about Tatar and Nyquist, and before that Filppula and Hudler.  Fact is, you just don't know this early in his career what type of player he's going to be. 
 
Secondly, it's entirely possible that he could be BOTH a big time player in the NHL as one of you suggested and a 40-60 pt. player as the other suggested.  If Jarnkrok was scoring 25-30 goals a season and another 25-30 assists PLUS good defense wouldn't that make him a "big time player"?  
 
Stop arguing, neither of you know what he'll turn into and truthfully you're both pretty close to each other when you decide to speculate what he'll be. 
 
Truth is, we traded long term potential for short term gain.  Apparently Holland believed it was preferable to lose the potential of a top flight center (Jarnkrok's upside) for a chance to sneak into the playoffs this year.  Personally, I think it's a bad decision but you're welcome to disagree.  But to try and make it seem like Jarnkrok was a B prospect, or that Legwand is a horrible trade (or a savior of one), is both incorrect and intellectually beneath each of you.


Again nothing against legwand he was the forward I was aiming at us getting but what really pissed me off is how everyone's acting like jarnkrok was some useless bum and not one of our top prospects for yrs and yes again I'm happy legwand is here but I do think we overpaid and my own personal believe is we could of found another way to of landed him ... It's clear he wanted to come here

Now like you said he might be a nobody or he might be a star or a 50-60 pt guy ..... Which I'd take btw ... Isn't that what we're hoping to get from filppula all these years? If janrkrok becomes a 15goals 50-60 pt type player we lost

And like you also mentioned management were iffy on nyquist and Tatar and wasn't sheahan suppose to e a 3rd-4th line guy? Still way too early but he's sure as he'll showing he can play way better than they expected

#998 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:57 PM

Please tell more more about how Jarnkrok in the past 2 years was showing any signs of becoming a top six forward. Sweden WC-A stats over two years, 2 points in 19 games. Probability of success C, Talent 7.5. A couple years ago he was highly praised for his potential, he hasn't lived up to his potential so far. WHY do you people think he was SO good? Please give me legit sources claiming he was going to take Zetterbergs spot or be anything close to that.
He was worth Legwand, especially the situation the team is in needing a center so badly if we have any hope of making the playoffs. You guys just don't understand the side effects of this team missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years and how it will affect our young guys. Who we are training to bec

ome winners. You really want this teams mindset next year to get back into the playoffs? Or do you want it to be make the playoffs for the 24th time and continue and hand off that tradition to our young guys.


He was one of the better players in the swedish elite league for a few yrs and helped win the championship for his team ....and one thing no one seems to have mentioned is this is his first year in North America it takes times for European players to adjust to the smaller rinks

Our own lidstrom said it took him a whole year to adjust to the nhl and he's a hall of fame player and a legend and were ready to say jarnkrok is a bust after 40 or so games? I just think it's a big risk to ship him when he's finally turning things around

As for his weight there's nhl players who are shorter and weight less who are pretty good


Anyways like Kip said only time will tell

#999 wingslionstigers

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:01 PM

 

I do think we overpaid and my own personal believe is we could of found another way to of landed him

Yeah because the trade didn't finish and submit to the league within 1 minute of the dead line.

 

 

 

Now like you said he might be a nobody or he might be a star or a 50-60 pt guy ..... Which I'd take btw ... Isn't that what we're hoping to get from filppula all these years? If janrkrok becomes a 15goals 50-60 pt type player we lost

 

At base case scenario he becomes as good as Legwand is now? Yeah we really lost that one.


He was one of the better players in the swedish elite league for a few yrs and helped win the championship for his team ....and one thing no one seems to have mentioned is this is his first year in North America it takes times for European players to adjust to the smaller rinks

Our own lidstrom said it took him a whole year to adjust to the nhl and he's a hall of fame player and a legend and were ready to say jarnkrok is a bust after 40 or so games? I just think it's a big risk to ship him when he's finally turning things around

As for his weight there's nhl players who are shorter and weight less who are pretty good


Anyways like Kip said only time will tell

 

No I'm judging him because he didn't perform at the world cup and was a 4th line player. You know that thing were all great NHL players performed well at? That's where you get a look at your players for the first time and how they compete with and against other highly praised NHL prospects. That's where Jarnkrok lost value and its for good reason.



#1000 wingslionstigers

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:07 PM

Who else do you think we could have traded? You want to trade Mantha, Tatar, Jurco? Who? You have to at least give some value. You can't trade a player that has absolutely no chance of becoming an NHL player. We don't have to much left for forwards that have any trade value. We have D but we can't afford to give up D prospects. Jarnkrok was one of the lower prospects on forward we had that has some value and some potential. Jarnkrok was expendable. We have 600 centers that are going to be around for a few years. I don't think we are going to have all of them injured again like this. This year has been a real unlucky season.







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