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Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd



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#1161 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

You don't get good players for Ferraro, Callahan, Miller, and a 3rd, which is all a lot of the people screaming to make a trade want to give up.  Legwand has been the Pred's best forward pretty much his entire career, and is at worst a second line center.  Jarnkrok is a 22 year old prospect who the guys who constantly evaluate their prospects and monitor them far more closely and accurately than anyone outside of the organization, much less a random fan posting on a message board, were comfortable trading for Legwand.  This reminds me of the rants we heard every time Matthias or any other prospect the Wings gave up had a good game, until a couple years passed and people realized oh, he's not as good as we thought he'd be.

You make it sound like legwand is a star ... Let's be honest over here ... Will he have a long nhl career ? Yes ... But for a first overall nhl pick he's a bust ... A bust in the sense that when you get a first overall nhl pick your expecting and hoping that player is a franchise player that will carry the team and be super dominant and he hasn't

Him being nashvilles best player of all time isn't saying much , that team has been good for many years in the back end but never had any good scoring threats upfront .... Again legwand is good but like I said before he's a perfect third line center in a very good team .... Low and behold he's on the 3rd line now and what's worse is our big guns haven't even returned yet

This is the whole stephen weiss crap again .... A lot of People gave me s*** here for saying Weiss was overrated from day 1 and yes it's still soon but so far we can say it's been a disaster

You can say whatever you want about jarnkrok being a future bottom 6 .... facts are we gave up on top 3 prospect for a soon to be 34 yr old ufa which is absolute nonsense ... I would of rather called him up and see what would of happened , I'm pretty sure he'd have more games with pts than legwand has so far seeing how he's done with nobody's in Nashville and seeing how he had experience playing with nyquist sheahan jurco dekeyser etc ...

He's gone now so all we can do is accept the trade and or vent about it .... I'm pissed but I accept that it's done ... I just want jarnkrok to continue and dominate so we think hard next time about giving up a top prospect in our system


We all have our own opinions and that's mine and it won't change

Edited by nyqvististhefuture, 30 March 2014 - 03:57 PM.


#1162 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:15 PM

He's gone now so all we can do is accept the trade and or vent about it .... I'm pissed but I accept that it's done ... I just want jarnkrok to continue and dominate so we think hard next time about giving up a top prospect in our system


We all have our own opinions and that's mine and it won't change

You keep saying this, but when was the last time the wings gave up a top prospect? Shawn Mattias for Bertuzzi? That was 7 years ago and the wings now keep picks and prospects. I honestly don't know how I feel about the trade - possible present gain for possible future sacrifice. But to claim that the Wings need to be taught a lesson about giving up prospects seems incongruous with management's recent history. 


Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk, 30 March 2014 - 04:18 PM.


#1163 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:29 PM

You keep saying this, but when was the last time the wings gave up a top prospect? Shawn Mattias for Bertuzzi? That was 7 years ago and the wings now keep picks and prospects. I honestly don't know how I feel about the trade - possible present gain for possible future sacrifice. But to claim that the Wings need to be taught a lesson about giving up prospects seems incongruous with management's recent history.


I don't recall Matthias ever being a top 5 prospect ... Could be wrong ... If he was then that was the last time we traded a top 5 pick ... And just because Matthias Thus far isn't anything special doesn't mean sooner or later we will pull a Oates trade again and this could be it

#1164 DickieDunn

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:31 PM

I don't recall Matthias ever being a top 5 prospect ... Could be wrong ... If he was then that was the last time we traded a top 5 pick ... And just because Matthias Thus far isn't anything special doesn't mean sooner or later we will pull a Oates trade again and this could be it

 

 

Every team ends up making trades like that occasionally.


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#1165 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:36 PM

Every team ends up making trades like that occasionally.


Yes but they don't usually trade a top prospect for a soon to be 34 yr old ufa .... At least if it was a 1st jarnkrok another guy or 2 for a solid top d then it be a different story and wouldn't bother me so much

Edited by nyqvististhefuture, 30 March 2014 - 04:37 PM.


#1166 lomekian

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:56 PM

What you think of the trade is partly dependent on how important you think the playoff streak is. And whether you think this team can do anything in the playoffs.

 

I'm convinced that this trade wouldn't have happened under any cirmcustances other than the ones we faced. When you are fighting for your life and Andersson is your no 1 centre, the desire to make deals increases. Did we overpay? Of course. What remains to be seen is whether or not is was worth the overpayment. If we make the playoffs and somehow get past the first round, and he re-signs for a fair price (which looks likely), its a pretty good deal. If we finish 9th and he leaves, we got stung. 

 

I think also Sheahan's emergence and the development of AA in the juniors made it an easier trade to make, particularly on a team with a pro-veteran focus and a s*** load of rookies cementing their places for next year. I guess the thinking is also that this can allow us to really roll 4 lines next year, regardless of whether Weiss comes back (perhaps they know something we dont there).

 

Zatta - Dats - ? (alfie/UFA)

Nyquist - Legwand - Franzen

Tats - Sheahan - Jurco

Abby - Helm - Miller

Andersson/Glendenning looks pretty good...and if wiess proves himself, even better.

 

Losing Bert, Cleary, Sammy frees up 6-7m in salary, which can help us look for a UFA as the Cap increase should cover re-signing Legwand, alfie, Quincey (maybe?), Dekeyser Sheahan and Tatar. 

 

Its frustrating to lose a genuine NHL prospect, but I suppose Nashville wanted a centre and the wings must very confident Legwand won't be a rental, which pretty much guarantees no room for Iron Hook in Detroit bar as a call up for 2 years unless his points total continued to accelerate. I'll be astounded if we don't draft a couple of centres this year, and try to pinch that Russian kid.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure if it wasn;t for the injury bug combining so effectively with being on the outside of the playoff picture looking in, we'd have kept him and given him a late season look. Essentially Holland blinked, and time will tell if he was right or not. 



#1167 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 10:58 PM

We'll just to who I'm fair and not only mentioning when he gets pts ... Jarnkrok was pointless tonight ... Oh well couldn't keep it going forever

A point in each of his first 5 nhl games is still a good start ... Let's see what he does next few games

#1168 FlashyG

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 11:11 PM

We'll just to who I'm fair and not only mentioning when he gets pts ... Jarnkrok was pointless tonight ... Oh well couldn't keep it going forever

A point in each of his first 5 nhl games is still a good start ... Let's see what he does next few games

 

Not only was he pointless, he took a penalty that lead to Washington tying the game.

 

Tonights Jarnkrok looked like he didn't really belong in the NHL.



#1169 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 11:16 PM

Not only was he pointless, he took a penalty that lead to Washington tying the game.
 
Tonights Jarnkrok looked like he didn't really belong in the NHL.


Was one game though ... To be fair Legwands had more than one bad game since being a redwing(he's also played more games I realize)

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#1170 canadian wings fan

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:14 AM

Leggy got the GWG tonight that gave us 2 huge points



#1171 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:31 AM

I hope Jarnkrok becomes a nobody for the simple fact that I don't want to read about this trade for the next 18 years of his career.

#1172 number9

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:08 AM

What about Eaves??? We lost that indispensable piece too!

#1173 marcaractac

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 02:33 AM

I hope Jarnkrok becomes a nobody for the simple fact that I don't want to read about this trade for the next 18 years of his career.

 

Really though. At this rate will people be bumping this thread every time he gets a point 2 or 3 years from now? lol



#1174 e_prime

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:25 AM

Jarnkrok couldn't score on the shootout last night.  Good riddance I say!

 

Also, no-one said Matthias was a top 5 pick, but he was in our top 5 prospects.... oh, you know, back when he was a Wings prospect and everyone got all bent outta shape when he was traded away.


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#1175 LeftWinger

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:46 AM

can we put this debate to bed? We needed a center, Jarnkrok wasn't going to be recalled to be that center.  The Wings brass know who they have in the system and who they can live without.  The need was for a top line D man, but everyone wanted Mantha.  Holland said, no to every offer out there. Holland needed a center with NHL experience and one that could help us get into the playoffs. Jarnkrok was needed to get an experienced center with some skill.  Legwand has 11 points in 14 games, that's 64 points over an 82 game period.  Everyone plays a bad game here and there, or makes bad plays, its not like he floats around most of season like someone else we know.  Besides, Jarnkrok wasn't going to be here until two more season anyhow, and I have a hard time seeing him get 60+ points here in Detroit.  Legwand was a great pickup and he along with the kids are the reason we are still in the playoffs today.  Jarnkrok would still be in GR.  Hey, we could have always sold the entire farm including Mantha for Kesler...or we could have just relied on Emmerton and Ferraro to help us to the playoffs. I say good for Holland on this one. I am always critical of Holland, but I do give he credit when its due.

 

Legwand was pricey (because we were desperate) but he is paying dividends.  He will re-sign a 3 year deal and continue to be that bridge while our other kids gain more experience.


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#1176 VM1138

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:55 AM

You make it sound like legwand is a star ... Let's be honest over here ... Will he have a long nhl career ? Yes ... But for a first overall nhl pick he's a bust ... A bust in the sense that when you get a first overall nhl pick your expecting and hoping that player is a franchise player that will carry the team and be super dominant and he hasn't

Him being nashvilles best player of all time isn't saying much , that team has been good for many years in the back end but never had any good scoring threats upfront .... Again legwand is good but like I said before he's a perfect third line center in a very good team .... Low and behold he's on the 3rd line now and what's worse is our big guns haven't even returned yet

This is the whole stephen weiss crap again .... A lot of People gave me s*** here for saying Weiss was overrated from day 1 and yes it's still soon but so far we can say it's been a disaster

You can say whatever you want about jarnkrok being a future bottom 6 .... facts are we gave up on top 3 prospect for a soon to be 34 yr old ufa which is absolute nonsense ... I would of rather called him up and see what would of happened , I'm pretty sure he'd have more games with pts than legwand has so far seeing how he's done with nobody's in Nashville and seeing how he had experience playing with nyquist sheahan jurco dekeyser etc ...

He's gone now so all we can do is accept the trade and or vent about it .... I'm pissed but I accept that it's done ... I just want jarnkrok to continue and dominate so we think hard next time about giving up a top prospect in our system


We all have our own opinions and that's mine and it won't change

 

 

I'm really, really, really, really, really tired of people trashing Weiss.  Really tired of it.  Were you also one of the ones saying Colaiacovo sucked? People seem unable to separate injuries from quality of play.  Both Cola and Weiss are very good players.  But Cola was injured so he "sucked."  Not playing due to injuries does not equal sucking.  Because he's injured for a season, and played with the injury in a new system early in the year, some people want to say he sucks. At no time in Weiss' career has he sucked, or been overrated.  He's been overlooked for the most part.

 

Right now, he's an X-factor of sorts because we don't know when he's coming back or if he'll be 100% this season, but that's about all I think anyone can say about him right now.  If we look at his career the chances of him bouncing back look very good.

 

And Legwand is a solid top 6 guy.  Yes, on a stacked team it'd be best to place him on the third line.  In the sense that he'd be VERY dangerous there.  I think people are just not understanding that he's not a goal scorer. He's a playmaker.

 

In addition to all the panic about trading Jarnkrok, we're forgetting that we won't ever personally suffer from that trade.  He's on Nashville.  Even if he becomes a star, it's unlikely that team will ever truly be good, and we'll only have to worry about them in a potential Finals matchup, the odds of that happening are very slim.  So we miss out on a potentially good center.  Well, we can get one from Europe this summer (there's a guy over there who we're rumored to be looking into), or trade for another one if need be.  But I don't know if he'll be better than Weiss or Legwand for several years.  So it's not a bad trade.  Maybe a little overpayment but it was necessary to address the needs of the team, and it doesn't hurt us for a year or two, if ever.


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#1177 LeftWinger

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:24 AM

...of all the prospects we have traded over the past for positions we NEEDED, please someone, name me ONE in the last 22 seasons that we really REALLY regret trading...please entertain us.


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#1178 number9

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:35 AM

...of all the prospects we have traded over the past for positions we NEEDED, please someone, name me ONE in the last 22 seasons that we really REALLY regret trading...please entertain us.


The only one I miss is Matthias. But getting Bertuzzi at the time made the trade well worth it. So I don't regret the trade. We have better prospects now anyway, Matthias was expendable. Jarnkrok was expendable as well. Farm is stacked. Some will need to go for immediate needs.

#1179 marcaractac

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

...of all the prospects we have traded over the past for positions we NEEDED, please someone, name me ONE in the last 22 seasons that we really REALLY regret trading...please entertain us.

 

Exactly. Matthias would have been nice to have. But with all the kids we have now there would be either no spot for him or one of the current kids would be bumped out of the lineup. As long as the great drafting and developing of players continues, losing Jarnkrok will not effect this team going forward. It is one prospect. Some in here carry on as if Holland sold the farm. 

 

Before the same couple of people start putting words in my mouth once again, I'm not saying Jarnkrok will never be a good player. I'm simply saying even if he turns out to be a career top 6 forward, the Wings will do just fine and we will have plenty of other young players to fill the void that has been left by him. This isn't an organization whose life depends on one or two kids in the system. This is an organization that has been great at developing players, and will continue to do so. 

 

And for those saying they hope Jarnkrok turns into a star so Holland never does this again. If a situation comes up where this team absolutely needs something and it will cost an asset to get it, Holland will pull the trigger. So please stop acting as if he does this all the time, as he may make a trade like this once every half a dozen years. 


The only one I miss is Matthias. But getting Bertuzzi at the time made the trade well worth it. So I don't regret the trade. We have better prospects now anyway, Matthias was expendable. Jarnkrok was expendable as well. Farm is stacked. Some will need to go for immediate needs.

 

Exactly this. Matthias is only now seeming to start playing the way he was hyped to. After what, 6 or so years? Even then it is too small a sample size to see if it will continue. But as I said, if we had Matthias now, another kid would not be playing. A trade like this once every blue moon does not hurt a team like the Red Wings. Hell, it didn't even hurt precap era much either as we still drafted gems. 



#1180 mackel

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

When I was watching the trade deadline coverage on TSN, Bob MacKenzie said as clear as day that the Red Wings felt Jarnkrok wouldn't play for the organization. He wanted big time minutes in the big league, that wasn't going to happen with the Wings so he wanted out.

We traded a player who might be good, but who didn't want to play here. It's that simple no need for all the dramatics.





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