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Thoughts and questions....


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#1 Richdg

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:48 PM

If management wishes to move this, feel free. But this is way beyond just the trade.

 

1. A couple of years ago the RW's and Hawken were running around talking about Jarnkrok is "NHL ready right now". he was in our top ten prospects list. Yet he only has 33 year old UFA checking C value in a trade. This all can't be right. If he is good, then he would have much more value. Are the RW's way over valuing our prospects?

 

2. What is the difference in performance between Legwand, Helm, Andersson, Abby, and Sheahan? TBH I don't see it. Yes there are some size differences etc.... But in terms of what they bring to the RW's in game, there isn't much. All play a 2 way game. Most bump and bang a little bit, and once in a while they all score a goal. By my math, that makes 5 guys that are 3/4 C's at best. So what did we gain?

 

3. If we did over value jarnkrok, are we doing the same thing with others? As the smoke clears we will hear many of the proposed trades. Some we have already heard rumors about. It sure seems like the rest of the NHL has much lower opinions of our "prospects" than we do. The same thing happens here with our fans. We can't trade..... "insert prospect name here" because they are to good! Well, if they are so good, then we should make the playoffs no problem. We have 21 games and 42 points available this season. If Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan etc... are really good young players then we should be able to play at the same .500 level we have been at all year. After all we have been without Z and/or dat off and on all year.

 

4. Fact is Holland lied to the fans and got screwed. he said several times: "No rentals". Legwand is a rental. UFA this summer. He is also old and LHed. Bringing him in doesn't solve any of our issues or problems. No I am not bagging on Legwand. In fact I like him as a player. If we did this deal 5 years ago, it would be a much better deal. he was signed long term then.

Holland talked for days in not a couple of weeks that he was looking for a hockey trade. Sorry but this isn't one. This is a panic move and a rental.

 

5. Now the moves made not made. For the past week many on here were discussing the +/- of kesler. he is 29 and has a cap hit of 5 million. Legwand is 33 and has a cap hit of 4.5 million. Kesler is looking even better now isn't he! In fact the idea of moving a helm, jarnkrok, 1st, and one more prospect doesn't look so bad does it? We paid almost the same for Legwand. Now granted we don't know what the Nucks were after or if Kesler would even say yes to a deal. But it is the perspective I am talking about more than the deal/no deal. This also brings us to helm. legwand has a cap hit of 4.5 million per year. helm is a similar player. Better on D not as good on O.

 

6. Holland. There are many of us that have been doubting Holland for the past couple of years. Not sure if he has "it" anymore. days like today reinforce that belief. Fails to make moves to try to improve the team, bad UFA signings, and now I am getting more worried about his drafting. Our prospects don't have much value. Young guys that we trade or let walk are failing to develop for other NHL teams. A few years back it was Rottila. Last 2 years it was Mursack and Emmerton. Now we will find out about Jarnkrok, tatar, nyquist, sheahan, jurco etc.....

 

7. TBH I wasn't expecting a deal today. After what we did, I wish we would have stood pat and done NOTHING. There is no doubt in my mind that if we wanted to, we could have signed Legwand as a UFA. So we have paided 2 players and a draft pick for a guy that would have gladly signed here.

 

8. The only positive from today is, some of the guys we were after are still with their teams and will be available this summer. kesler will be out there, edler will, Myers will, erhoff will, etc..... The real question is, will we have a GM willing to go after them? same with the UFA's vanek, moulson, Callahan, etc.....

 

Ok flame away!

 

 



#2 Son of a Wing

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:00 PM

TLDR

 

Besides I think I have an idea of what it says...


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#3 Richdg

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:20 PM

???? have no idea what you are saying.



#4 saven

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:23 PM

To long didn't read = tldr.
In explanation of my avatar: for those who understand no explanation is necessary, for those who don't google federko.

#5 number9

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:50 PM

"Holland told Sobotka to clean the ice counter-clock wise? WRONG" - RichDG



#6 Shaman

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:40 AM

My biggest issues with Holland stands as follows:

 

#1 This move didn't address the Wing's biggest issue, which was lack of a true #2-#3 defenseman. When healthy the Wings have 7-9 centers on the team.

 

#2 This move doesn't put the Wings in a better position than they were yesterday. They are still a team that is a bubble team and could very easily miss the playoffs.

 

#3 It shows that Holland really doesn't have a clear plan in place. He was emphatic that there would be no trading for rentals, and no trading of youth. Then he trades a coveted prospect for a player that when the Wings are healthy would be a 3rd or 4th line center. 

 

#4 Success has been redefined by the Wings to mean competing for a playoff spot. This was a team a few years ago that defined success as competing for a cup. Why has that changed? 


Edited by Shaman, 06 March 2014 - 12:41 AM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#7 number9

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:53 AM

My biggest issues with Holland stands as follows:

 

#1 This move didn't address the Wing's biggest issue, which was lack of a true #2-#3 defenseman. When healthy the Wings have 7-9 centers on the team.

 

#2 This move doesn't put the Wings in a better position than they were yesterday. They are still a team that is a bubble team and could very easily miss the playoffs.

 

#3 It shows that Holland really doesn't have a clear plan in place. He was emphatic that there would be no trading for rentals, and no trading of youth. Then he trades a coveted prospect for a player that when the Wings are healthy would be a 3rd or 4th line center. 

 

#4 Success has been redefined by the Wings to mean competing for a playoff spot. This was a team a few years ago that defined success as competing for a cup. Why has that changed? 

I agree with you to an extent. The need was definably at D but for whatever reason we couldn't fix that problem ( not a lot of D-men were moved). We had injuries at C so that problem was fixed. I think we are at a better position right now, so loang as everything works out



#8 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:56 AM

Only read the beginning, but...

 

Holland didn't lie about no rentals. He said that before he was told that Dats is gone for at least 3 weeks and that Helm is out with Headaches. If you draw a line in the sand and then a tidal wave comes on, I think it's okay to move.



#9 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:58 AM

Every single one of the points made in the OP could be discussed in an existing topic.  







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