• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
DickieDunn

If Kronwall isn't a #1

Rate this topic

67 posts in this topic

Who's better? List them all. I'll start.

Suter, Weber, Pietrangelo, Chara, Doughty, Keith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he's a number 1 .... Of course it depends on what team he'd be on but if you start going by superstar elite defencemen like chara and weber not enough of those for each nhl team ..... Maybe kronwall is a 1b?... Do think he's a number 1 .... Then again Maybe I'm just biased cuz I'm a wings fan

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's a one he's just not elite.... There's 10-15 better IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's clearly a number one defenseman. Anyone who says otherwise is being argumentative just for the sake of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's clearly a number one defenseman. Anyone who says otherwise is being argumentative just for the sake of it.

He is a number one, but ideally he'd be our number two. I think this whole argument is based on people wanting a better number one defenseman, which we probably all agree on.

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real point is every Stanley Cup winner since the '04-'05 lockout has had a better #1 than Kronwall, and some of them had a top pairing he wouldn't be able to crack.

A more relevant question is can he lead us to the Promised Land?

Edited by T.Low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably in the minority but I think Chara is the most overrated player in the league. He's big and physical, but I've never been impressed with his defensive ability.

brett likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably in the minority but I think Chara is the most overrated player in the league. He's big and physical, but I've never been impressed with his defensive ability.

Couldn't agree more. He's got a nice hard shot and he's big and strong but that's it. Can't skate, his awareness is poor, positioning is bad, doesn't have good hands, but everyone just looks at his size and shot. I've thought that for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to the guys listed in the OP I would add OEL, Karlsson. Those are they only guys really I would prefer to have OVER Kronwall. Chara isn't too much better IMO its just his size but I think he declines fast eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who's better? List them all. I'll start.

Suter, Weber, Pietrangelo, Chara, Doughty, Keith.

Your list looks exactly like mine, funny there's only 6 guys in the NHL on D that are better and 2 are on the same team. If Kronner isn't a #1 then 24 other teams in the NHL don't have one either ;) . Except all other teams fans don't make a #1 argument based on Nick Lidstrom being the #1 benchmark. Unfortunately though, if Karlsson actually becomes Norris worthy defensively, he could be added to the list and within a couple years, Trouba may be as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's a one he's just not elite.... There's 10-15 better IMO.

Who are the 10-15, in your opinion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real point is every Stanley Cup winner since the '04-'05 lockout has had a better #1 than Kronwall, and some of them had a top pairing he wouldn't be able to crack.

A more relevant question is can he lead us to the Promised Land?

Who did the penguins have that is better then kronwall? Letang and gonchar were not better then kronwall but yet they won the cup. Kronners might not be the best number 1 in the league but he is for sure not far off on the list of number 1 dmen I would like to have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who are the 10-15, in your opinion?

I'll have to sit down and look when I get a chance to give u a real list. But off the top of my head and of course it is my opinion but:

Weber

Suter

Keith

Subban

Doughty

Chara

Pietrangelo

Letang

And I'm forgetting a few ATM.

Then guys who are borderline but IMO are in the same conversation as kronwall:

Sea brook

Orpik

Mcdunough(rangers guy can't spell it)

Staal

Yandle

Bouwmeister

Elder

There's more that I'm completely forgetting but that's off the top of my head. Now to make it clear. I think kronwall is better than most of the guys I kind of group him with.

So yeah in my rankings he is in the 10-15 range which isn't bad at all...he is a number one which is far better than what I though he would be. Last year or two I thought he would always be a number 2 but he really improved and stepped up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kronwall is our default #1 Dman. Just a few years ago when he was 28/29 he was our 3/4. Nick, rafalski, were clearly better and Staurt was equal or better. This is not to say that Kronwall is bad, because that isn't it at all. But when on the same team with guys that are 40 and 36, he was secondary.

Now if you want a list, go to the thread I started about Mark fayne. I posted 24 names there and yes I missed a few. Now you may have a different list, but ask yourself the same question. How many of those guys I listed in a 1 for 1 trade would we be able to pick up for Kronwall? Very few. No, it is not all because of talent. Age and contracts do come into play.

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kronwall was better all-around than Rafi, just wasn't a better partner for Nick. And the list of defensemen that weren't as good as Lidstrom back then included everyone, with only a very few even being debatable.

If Lidstrom is your standard for a #1 defenseman, I think you'll spend the rest of your life disappointed.

kipwinger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kronwall is our default #1 Dman. Just a few years ago when he was 28/29 he was our 3/4. Nick, rafalski, were clearly better and Staurt was equal or better. This is not to say that Kronwall is bad, because that isn't it at all. But when on the same team with guys that are 40 and 36, he was secondary.

Now if you want a list, go to the thread I started about Mark fayne. I posted 24 names there and yes I missed a few. Now you may have a different list, but ask yourself the same question. How many of those guys I listed in a 1 for 1 trade would we be able to pick up for Kronwall? Very few. No, it is not all because of talent. Age and contracts do come into play.

A bunch of guys you listed are bad in their own zone. Yandle and Letang for instance. Someone did a pretty good analysis of the list. There are probably 8 who are clearly better and another few you can make the argument for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Kronner is a decent #1. Hes not great or elite but he gets the job done. I wish he was more of a shut down defender as this team clearly lacks one. Kronner also at times cant hit the ocean with thrown rock while standing on the shore. There will be stretches where every shot he takes flys high and wide. Hes also taken a notch down in the physical game. I mean whens the last time someone truly got Kronwalled? The other big problem I see with Kronner is bigger forwards have there way with him.

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what works against Kronwall is that he does a lot of things really well, but he isn't dominant in any aspect of his game. He isn't a shut down type defenseman, he isn't a game changer offensively, the occasionally "Krowalling" is entertaining, but his overall physical game is lacking, and what GMP said about his shot. It isn't to say I'm not a Kronwall fan, but I think the fact he's decent at most things, but not great at any one thing is what gives the impression he's not a #1 type defenseman.

GoalieManPat and T.Low like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what works against Kronwall is that he does a lot of things really well, but he isn't dominant in any aspect of his game. He isn't a shut down type defenseman, he isn't a game changer offensively, the occasionally "Krowalling" is entertaining, but his overall physical game is lacking, and what GMP said about his shot. It isn't to say I'm not a Kronwall fan, but I think the fact he's decent at most things, but not great at any one thing is what gives the impression he's not a #1 type defenseman.

Nail on the head. I like Kronner but hes not a true elite #1. Hes pretty much a jack of all trades master of none. The best #1 dmen have mastered atleast one part of the game be it offensively or defensively. Kronner would be a great complimentary dman. You put him and a top notch shutdown D or top notch offensive Dman and I think his game would be stronger. Thats what leads to me to label him more a #2.

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Kronwall is simple: the guy is asked to run the damn PP and HE isn't that type of guy period he should focus more on a shutdown role and be a physical force again. Where are his so impressive crushing open ice hits? You know the stuff Phaneuf and him are known for.

Guys who are clearly better:

Chara - *lol* at the notion that this guy is overrated he is an absolute monster and can do it all

Pietrangelo

B. Seabrook - this is one of the most underrated guys in the whole league, he rarely makes a mistake and gets the job done quietly

Keith

Suter

Weber

Letang

Doughty

Bouwmeester

Yandle

McDonagh

Phaneuf

bold = elite, so yeah Kronwall is around ~ 12 good but not in the top group and for sure not elite

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kronwall is pretty damn good offensively. Since he's been on the top PP unit he's been in the top 10 in defense scoring, and before that he was generally in the top 30 despite playing on the 2nd PP unit most of the time. He's also improved his defensive play the last 2 or 3 years, although he does still make mistakes like everyone not named Nicklas Lidstrom. I think the reason he doesn't blow people up anymore is he knows those hits tend to lead to suspensions now. If he destroyed Havlat now, he'd get at least 3 games and probably more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Kronwall is simple: the guy is asked to run the damn PP and HE isn't that type of guy period he should focus more on a shutdown role and be a physical force again. Where are his so impressive crushing open ice hits? You know the stuff Phaneuf and him are known for.

Guys who are clearly better:

Chara - *lol* at the notion that this guy is overrated he is an absolute monster and can do it all

Pietrangelo

B. Seabrook - this is one of the most underrated guys in the whole league, he rarely makes a mistake and gets the job done quietly

Keith

Suter

Weber

Letang

Doughty

Bouwmeester

Yandle

McDonagh

Phaneuf

bold = elite, so yeah Kronwall is around ~ 12 good but not in the top group and for sure not elite

If Kronwall doesn't qualify as elite to you, then neither should Seabrook. Also Yandle is nowhere near as good as Kronwall in the defensive zone. And all I have to say about Chara is watch him closely next time you watch the B's. He's a good defenseman no doubt, but far from elite. He's not even the best all around defenseman on his team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To those saying Letang is better than Kronner: have you even watched Letang this season? A rookie defenseman had to cover up for his mistakes. Don't think that kinda d-man can ever be a real number one, even if he brings a lot of offense to the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0