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If Kronwall isn't a #1


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#1 DickieDunn

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

Who's better?  List them all.  I'll start.

 

Suter, Weber, Pietrangelo, Chara, Doughty, Keith.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#2 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

I think he's a number 1 .... Of course it depends on what team he'd be on but if you start going by superstar elite defencemen like chara and weber not enough of those for each nhl team ..... Maybe kronwall is a 1b?... Do think he's a number 1 .... Then again Maybe I'm just biased cuz I'm a wings fan

Edited by nyqvististhefuture, 08 March 2014 - 03:14 PM.


#3 DeGraa55

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:34 PM

He's a one he's just not elite.... There's 10-15 better IMO.

#4 kipwinger

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:49 PM

He's clearly a number one defenseman.  Anyone who says otherwise is being argumentative just for the sake of it.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#5 Mckinley25

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

He's clearly a number one defenseman.  Anyone who says otherwise is being argumentative just for the sake of it.


He is a number one, but ideally he'd be our number two. I think this whole argument is based on people wanting a better number one defenseman, which we probably all agree on.

#6 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:58 PM

He's not Lidstrom therefore he is terrible.

But no I do think he is a solid number 1. His play lately though has made me a sad panda.

#7 T.Low

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:01 PM

The real point is every Stanley Cup winner since the '04-'05 lockout has had a better #1 than Kronwall, and some of them had a top pairing he wouldn't be able to crack.

A more relevant question is can he lead us to the Promised Land?

Edited by T.Low, 08 March 2014 - 04:03 PM.


#8 Echolalia

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

Probably in the minority but I think Chara is the most overrated player in the league.  He's big and physical, but I've never been impressed with his defensive ability.



#9 nawein

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:41 PM

Probably in the minority but I think Chara is the most overrated player in the league.  He's big and physical, but I've never been impressed with his defensive ability.


Couldn't agree more. He's got a nice hard shot and he's big and strong but that's it. Can't skate, his awareness is poor, positioning is bad, doesn't have good hands, but everyone just looks at his size and shot. I've thought that for years.

#10 dirtydangles

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:44 PM

In addition to the guys listed in the OP I would add OEL, Karlsson. Those are they only guys really I would prefer to have OVER Kronwall. Chara isn't too much better IMO its just his size but I think he declines fast eventually. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#11 DickieDunn

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:52 PM

Nobody who claims he's not a #1 guy wants to chime in?  


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#12 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:59 PM

Who's better?  List them all.  I'll start.

 

Suter, Weber, Pietrangelo, Chara, Doughty, Keith.

Your list looks exactly like mine, funny there's only 6 guys in the NHL on D that are better and 2 are on the same team.  If Kronner isn't a #1 then 24 other teams in the NHL don't have one either  ;) .  Except all other teams fans don't make a #1 argument based on Nick Lidstrom being the #1 benchmark.  Unfortunately though, if Karlsson actually becomes Norris worthy defensively, he could be added to the list and within a couple years, Trouba may be as well.


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#13 barabbas16

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

He's a one he's just not elite.... There's 10-15 better IMO.

 

Who are the 10-15, in your opinion?



#14 wings_fanatic

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:08 PM

The real point is every Stanley Cup winner since the '04-'05 lockout has had a better #1 than Kronwall, and some of them had a top pairing he wouldn't be able to crack.

A more relevant question is can he lead us to the Promised Land?


Who did the penguins have that is better then kronwall? Letang and gonchar were not better then kronwall but yet they won the cup. Kronners might not be the best number 1 in the league but he is for sure not far off on the list of number 1 dmen I would like to have.

#15 DeGraa55

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:20 PM

 
Who are the 10-15, in your opinion?


I'll have to sit down and look when I get a chance to give u a real list. But off the top of my head and of course it is my opinion but:
Weber
Suter
Keith
Subban
Doughty
Chara
Pietrangelo
Letang

And I'm forgetting a few ATM.

Then guys who are borderline but IMO are in the same conversation as kronwall:

Sea brook
Orpik
Mcdunough(rangers guy can't spell it)
Staal
Yandle
Bouwmeister
Elder

There's more that I'm completely forgetting but that's off the top of my head. Now to make it clear. I think kronwall is better than most of the guys I kind of group him with.


So yeah in my rankings he is in the 10-15 range which isn't bad at all...he is a number one which is far better than what I though he would be. Last year or two I thought he would always be a number 2 but he really improved and stepped up.

#16 Richdg

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:17 PM

Kronwall is our default #1 Dman. Just a few years ago when he was 28/29 he was our 3/4. Nick, rafalski, were clearly better and Staurt was equal or better. This is not to say that Kronwall is bad, because that isn't it at all. But when on the same team with guys that are 40 and 36, he was secondary.

 

Now if you want a list, go to the thread I started about Mark fayne. I posted 24 names there and yes I missed a few. Now you may have a different list, but ask yourself the same question. How many of those guys I listed in a 1 for 1 trade would we be able to pick up for Kronwall? Very few. No, it is not all because of talent. Age and contracts do come into play.



#17 Buppy

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:33 PM

Kronwall was better all-around than Rafi, just wasn't a better partner for Nick. And the list of defensemen that weren't as good as Lidstrom back then included everyone, with only a very few even being debatable.

 

If Lidstrom is your standard for a #1 defenseman, I think you'll spend the rest of your life disappointed.



#18 DickieDunn

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:52 PM

Kronwall is our default #1 Dman. Just a few years ago when he was 28/29 he was our 3/4. Nick, rafalski, were clearly better and Staurt was equal or better. This is not to say that Kronwall is bad, because that isn't it at all. But when on the same team with guys that are 40 and 36, he was secondary.
 
Now if you want a list, go to the thread I started about Mark fayne. I posted 24 names there and yes I missed a few. Now you may have a different list, but ask yourself the same question. How many of those guys I listed in a 1 for 1 trade would we be able to pick up for Kronwall? Very few. No, it is not all because of talent. Age and contracts do come into play.


A bunch of guys you listed are bad in their own zone. Yandle and Letang for instance. Someone did a pretty good analysis of the list. There are probably 8 who are clearly better and another few you can make the argument for.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#19 GoalieManPat

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:12 PM

I think Kronner is a decent #1. Hes not great or elite but he gets the job done. I wish he was more of a shut down defender as this team clearly lacks one. Kronner also at times cant hit the ocean with thrown rock while standing on the shore. There will be stretches where every shot he takes flys high and wide. Hes also taken a notch down in the physical game. I mean whens the last time someone truly got Kronwalled? The other big problem I see with Kronner is bigger forwards have there way with him. 



#20 Playmaker

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:50 AM

I think what works against Kronwall is that he does a lot of things really well, but he isn't dominant in any aspect of his game.  He isn't a shut down type defenseman, he isn't a game changer offensively, the occasionally "Krowalling" is entertaining, but his overall physical game is lacking, and what GMP said about his shot.  It isn't to say I'm not a Kronwall fan, but I think the fact he's decent at most things, but not great at any one thing is what gives the impression he's not a #1 type defenseman.







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