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If Kronwall isn't a #1


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#21 GoalieManPat

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:49 AM

I think what works against Kronwall is that he does a lot of things really well, but he isn't dominant in any aspect of his game.  He isn't a shut down type defenseman, he isn't a game changer offensively, the occasionally "Krowalling" is entertaining, but his overall physical game is lacking, and what GMP said about his shot.  It isn't to say I'm not a Kronwall fan, but I think the fact he's decent at most things, but not great at any one thing is what gives the impression he's not a #1 type defenseman.

 

Nail on the head. I like Kronner but hes not a true elite #1. Hes pretty much a jack of all trades master of none. The best #1 dmen have mastered atleast one part of the game be it offensively or defensively. Kronner would be a great complimentary dman. You put him and a top notch shutdown D or top notch offensive Dman and I think his game would be stronger. Thats what leads to me to label him more a #2.



#22 frankgrimes

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:52 AM

The problem with Kronwall is simple: the guy is asked to run the damn PP and HE isn't that type of guy period he should focus more on a shutdown role and be a physical force again. Where are his so impressive crushing open ice hits? You know the stuff Phaneuf and him are known for.

 

Guys who are clearly better:

 

Chara - *lol* at the notion that this guy is overrated he is an absolute monster and can do it all

Pietrangelo

B. Seabrook - this is one of the most underrated guys in the whole league, he rarely makes a mistake and gets the job done quietly

Keith

Suter

Weber

Letang

Doughty

Bouwmeester

Yandle

McDonagh

Phaneuf

 

bold = elite, so yeah Kronwall is around ~ 12 good but not in the top group and for sure not elite


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#23 DickieDunn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:57 AM

Kronwall is pretty damn good offensively.  Since he's been on the top PP unit he's been in the top 10 in defense scoring, and before that he was generally in the top 30 despite playing on the 2nd PP unit most of the time.  He's also improved his defensive play the last 2 or 3 years, although he does still make mistakes like everyone not named Nicklas Lidstrom.  I think the reason he doesn't blow people up anymore is he knows those hits tend to lead to suspensions now.  If he destroyed Havlat now, he'd get at least 3 games and probably more.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#24 nawein

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:54 AM

The problem with Kronwall is simple: the guy is asked to run the damn PP and HE isn't that type of guy period he should focus more on a shutdown role and be a physical force again. Where are his so impressive crushing open ice hits? You know the stuff Phaneuf and him are known for.
 
Guys who are clearly better:
 
Chara - *lol* at the notion that this guy is overrated he is an absolute monster and can do it all
Pietrangelo
B. Seabrook - this is one of the most underrated guys in the whole league, he rarely makes a mistake and gets the job done quietly
Keith
Suter
Weber
Letang
Doughty
Bouwmeester
Yandle
McDonagh
Phaneuf
 
bold = elite, so yeah Kronwall is around ~ 12 good but not in the top group and for sure not elite


If Kronwall doesn't qualify as elite to you, then neither should Seabrook. Also Yandle is nowhere near as good as Kronwall in the defensive zone. And all I have to say about Chara is watch him closely next time you watch the B's. He's a good defenseman no doubt, but far from elite. He's not even the best all around defenseman on his team.

#25 Finnish Wing

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:57 AM

To those saying Letang is better than Kronner: have you even watched Letang this season? A rookie defenseman had to cover up for his mistakes. Don't think that kinda d-man can ever be a real number one, even if he brings a lot of offense to the table.


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#26 DickieDunn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:29 AM

To those saying Letang is better than Kronner: have you even watched Letang this season? A rookie defenseman had to cover up for his mistakes. Don't think that kinda d-man can ever be a real number one, even if he brings a lot of offense to the table.

 

Yeah, he reminds me of Sandis Ozolinsch.  Puts up tons of points, but he needs a Garmin in the defensive zone to keep him from getting lost.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#27 VM1138

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

I think some of you are overrating other defensenen. Kronwall is absolutely in the top 10. Maybe top 5.

Weber is clearly the best in the league, but after him everyone else has glaring weaknesses.Kronwall is an offensive defenseman who plays a solid defensive game.
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#28 GMRwings1983

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:53 AM

His disappearance last year in the playoffs didn't help matters any.

 

0 goals, 2 assists in 14 games.  Not top quality material and didn't handle the pressure of being a number #1 very well.   


Edited by GMRwings1983, 09 March 2014 - 10:55 AM.

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#29 Richdg

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:19 PM

Every fan base has biased opinions of the local players. Love em or hate em. 1 of the things that GREATLY helps kronwall is our system. We have a ton of defensive F's that help our BL a lot. Other teams don't play that style, and rely on their BL to do the job.



#30 wings_fanatic

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:11 PM

His disappearance last year in the playoffs didn't help matters any.

 

0 goals, 2 assists in 14 games.  Not top quality material and didn't handle the pressure of being a number #1 very well.   

 

You forgot to mention that he played pretty darn good defensively in those 14 games... look at what a good job he did against Perry (did not score a single goal) and Toews and Kane against the Hawks). Toews especially was awful against the Wings, largely due to Kronners. 



#31 frankgrimes

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:06 AM

If Kronwall doesn't qualify as elite to you, then neither should Seabrook. Also Yandle is nowhere near as good as Kronwall in the defensive zone. And all I have to say about Chara is watch him closely next time you watch the B's. He's a good defenseman no doubt, but far from elite. He's not even the best all around defenseman on his team.

 

See that's why I've said the guy is extremely underrated. The reason why Keith can do what he does is Seabrook, the guy is like an insurance for every mistake ie. the former Suter/Weber pairing. The thing with Chara is because of his enormous size he is looking slow but watch this guy skate and shutdown the best of them.

 

This is nothing against Kronwall I like him but I just don't think he is a top 10 but for sure not top 5 defenseman. Since Suter left the Predators I don't think Weber is the best one anymore I think Keith and Pietrangelo will soon be better if they aren't already, although if Weber plays like in the olympics there would be no debate that was insane.


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#32 kook_10

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

Add Subban, Markov



works every time


#33 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:11 PM

 

You forgot to mention that he played pretty darn good defensively in those 14 games... look at what a good job he did against Perry (did not score a single goal) and Toews and Kane against the Hawks). Toews especially was awful against the Wings, largely due to Kronners. 

 

Well, a really good number one defenseman can play well at both ends in a pressure packed situation.  Kronwall was good defensively, but we needed so much more from him on the offensive side and never got it.  Our powerplay struggled late in the series.


Edited by GMRwings1983, 10 March 2014 - 08:11 PM.

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#34 Shaman

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:44 PM

I think some of you are overrating other defensenen. Kronwall is absolutely in the top 10. Maybe top 5.

Weber is clearly the best in the league, but after him everyone else has glaring weaknesses.Kronwall is an offensive defenseman who plays a solid defensive game.

 

I don't know whether to laugh or vomit. 

 

This is so clearly a homer goggles statement I hesitated even responding to it.

 

Let me start with what I came here to post:

All number one d-men are not created equal. There are #1A defensemen, those who on most teams would be a #1 over even whomever they have as their current #1. These would be your top 10 defensemen in the league. Kronwall is not in this category. They play big minutes, they shut down elite opponents and they put up a lot of points. These are your usual suspects when Norris conversations come up.

 

Then there are #1B, they are guys who are capable of playing big minutes, or scoring a lot of points. But they don't have all the tools to be elite, but they are good enough. This is where Kronwall falls. He has a good tool box, but none of his tools are good enough to make him stand out head and shoulders. He's good offensively, but not elite. He's able to play the big minutes, but, he also has brainfarts. And to be honest, if Crosby or Malkin is on the ice I'd personally wouldn't be comforted to see Kronwall on the ice sans Datsyuk or Zetterberg. 

 

I personally think Kronwall would benefit with a better partner, another #1B defenseman, where he wouldn't be expected to be everything all the time. 

 

Now to what VM said: I would take Chara, Keith, Suter, Weber, OEL, and Doughty over Kronwall right now without a second thought. I would take Karlsson, Yandle, Elder, Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo in most situations over Kronwall 9 times out of 10.That right there is enough to make the statement he is top ten pretty laughable. He's good, he's just nowhere near top 10. Top 15 would still put him in very good company, and you would have a legitimate argument for it, but hyperbole serves no one.


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#35 VM1138

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:15 PM

I'd agree with your first grouping, not your second. We're not as comically far apart as you think. That second grouping of players have just as many, If not more, flaws as Kronwall.
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#36 Jersey Wing

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:02 PM

He's not a prototypical #1 I'll give you that but he does everything a #1 does for the Wings.


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#37 number9

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:57 AM

This entire discussion to me comes from we used to have the best #1 in the league (we all know who that is) and now we don't (boohoo)

Kronwall IS a # 1 d-man in this league. Many writers grouped him amongst the best D men in the league (top 20). It's who should be next to him should be the discussion. is Ericsson a #2 D-men? Definitely not. I think Kronwall would very much benefit form either a high profile puck mover next to him, or a high profile shut down guy next time. He's very versatile. Being next to a puck mover like Rafalski and he can anchor the D. Being next to an Orpik type and he can go back to his "Kronwalling" pinch game. If we can give Kronwall a legitimate partner, thus forcing Ericsson to anchor a 2nd pairing with DeKeyser or Smith, we'll be in very good shape. Ericsson and DeKeyser could shut down opponent lines, while a Smith-Ericsson line would give Smith a good anchor while he takes chances and joins the rush.

In a nutshell, I think we are actually searching for a #2 D, not a #1.

Kronwall - UFA
Ericsson - Smith/Dekeyser
Kindl - Quincey
Lashoff

Looks way better

Of available D-men... Ehrhoff/Edler/Boyle/Markov looks way better then Kronwall next to Ericsson. If we could have Ericsson as our steady man on the 2nd pairing (Like Kronners was in the past)  we'll look way better at D.



#38 Richdg

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:49 PM

Tonights game was a good example of why Kronwall isn't a true #1 or a top 20ish Dman. he played poorly coming down the stretch and E was downright terrible. Kronwall finished the game -2 and E was -4! That is our top pair!

#39 atodaso

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

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#40 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:56 PM

Tonights game was a good example of why Kronwall isn't a true #1 or a top 20ish Dman. he played poorly coming down the stretch and E was downright terrible. Kronwall finished the game -2 and E was -4! That is our top pair!


Kronwall not a top 20 D man?! Are youf****** kidding me?!

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