Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 3 votes

3/11 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blue Jackets 4


  • Please log in to reply
436 replies to this topic

#401 Shutemdown

Shutemdown

    Instigator

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 261 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:53 AM

Eventually the higher-ups will realize that it doesn't matter how many soft Euro superstars they draft or acquire... at the end of the day you have to protect your assets, and the DRW have failed to do so for the past 3-4 seasons. We may not find a grittier power-forward with great hands who can also fight, but until they find someone to keep other teams in check, what is to stop them from walking all over us, weathering our man-advantage afterwards?

 

When Neal was targeting Franzen in (what I believe) was his first or second game back from concussions, the only "enforcer" for the Red Wings by the end of the game was the officials, who threw him out of the game TO PROTECT HIM, because we had NO ONE TO STEP UP. When Stevie Y was still playing for the Wings, McCarty was given the job of making sure he never got messed with. Where is Datsyuk's McCarty? Who is protecting Franzen and his fragile head?

 

Babcock and KH will eventually realize that there is no point in building a superstar line-up if they refuse to keep them protected. Until then... well, just look at our past couple seasons and our injuries.



#402 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,907 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:20 AM

Eventually the higher-ups will realize that it doesn't matter how many soft Euro superstars they draft or acquire... at the end of the day you have to protect your assets, and the DRW have failed to do so for the past 3-4 seasons. We may not find a grittier power-forward with great hands who can also fight, but until they find someone to keep other teams in check, what is to stop them from walking all over us, weathering our man-advantage afterwards?

 

When Neal was targeting Franzen in (what I believe) was his first or second game back from concussions, the only "enforcer" for the Red Wings by the end of the game was the officials, who threw him out of the game TO PROTECT HIM, because we had NO ONE TO STEP UP. When Stevie Y was still playing for the Wings, McCarty was given the job of making sure he never got messed with. Where is Datsyuk's McCarty? Who is protecting Franzen and his fragile head?

 

Babcock and KH will eventually realize that there is no point in building a superstar line-up if they refuse to keep them protected. Until then... well, just look at our past couple seasons and our injuries.

Neal and Neil are two different guys, but I know what you're talking about.

Enforcers don't prevent injury. But if I was an opponent coach playing the Wings I would tell all my guys before the game "Look these guys are all soft finesse players. Don't play their game. Play physical and aggressive with them, and just go balls to the wall on them... they're not going to stop you." We need some more BIG guys that wear down the other team and let them know they can't go balls to the wall on us.



#403 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 934 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:04 AM

Eventually the higher-ups will realize that it doesn't matter how many soft Euro superstars they draft or acquire... at the end of the day you have to protect your assets, and the DRW have failed to do so for the past 3-4 seasons. We may not find a grittier power-forward with great hands who can also fight, but until they find someone to keep other teams in check, what is to stop them from walking all over us, weathering our man-advantage afterwards?

 

When Neal was targeting Franzen in (what I believe) was his first or second game back from concussions, the only "enforcer" for the Red Wings by the end of the game was the officials, who threw him out of the game TO PROTECT HIM, because we had NO ONE TO STEP UP. When Stevie Y was still playing for the Wings, McCarty was given the job of making sure he never got messed with. Where is Datsyuk's McCarty? Who is protecting Franzen and his fragile head?

 

Babcock and KH will eventually realize that there is no point in building a superstar line-up if they refuse to keep them protected. Until then... well, just look at our past couple seasons and our injuries.

 

That guy was supposed to be Tootoo no? And look what's happened to him, buried in GR for mostly all the season. 

 

Fact is, things won't change any time soon IMO. But realistically, should they? When everyone gets healthy, and you put the lines together, we've got a really good strong forward group. I think what we've seen this year is not only the toll the injuries have taken but also how that has really affected chemistry within the group. It's hard when you've got guys coming back constantly off injury and they're not fully at 100% or close to it. The other thing is that this team has been playing well (with the exception of the Rangers game), and they' just haven't had the mustard to either close it out offensively, or play the full 60 minutes. But that is to be expected when you've got young guys and half the veterans are out. 

 

I'm still optimistic, but we're going to need some luck.


temp 1

 


#404 rick zombo

rick zombo

    Grit

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,280 posts

Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:21 AM

Honestly, there are so many things this team is missing right now, even when healthy

 

I'm not an pro-enforcer guy, never have been. BUT it would have been nice to go toe-to-toe physically with Columbus last night. It seems to me that other teams would be less likely to really lay it on our guys if they knew we had the ability to dish it back. Not talking fights, rather hits and the odd borderline play.

 

The other thing is, Babcock doesn't like to play that way. he likes to play hockey. So when Holland goes out and gets a Tootoo, he ends up rotting in the minors.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#405 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 17,139 posts

Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:28 AM

Columbus' Blake Comeau will have a phone hearing with NHL today for his check from behind on the Wings' Brendan Smith Tuesday.



#406 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,907 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

Honestly, there are so many things this team is missing right now, even when healthy

 

I'm not an pro-enforcer guy, never have been. BUT it would have been nice to go toe-to-toe physically with Columbus last night. It seems to me that other teams would be less likely to really lay it on our guys if they knew we had the ability to dish it back. Not talking fights, rather hits and the odd borderline play.

 

The other thing is, Babcock doesn't like to play that way. he likes to play hockey. So when Holland goes out and gets a Tootoo, he ends up rotting in the minors.

That's the thing. Babcock is trying to play a gentlemens game, but not everyone is going to treat us like gentlemen.

Torres just came back from injury and I think it was McLellan who basically said it's been great to have him back because even though he hasn't been hitting that much, other teams are looking over their shoulder again when they play us.



#407 Ekmanc

Ekmanc

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,118 posts

Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

We are mostly losing cause of a metric s*** ton of injuries and because our bottom 3 D sucks, not because we don't have enough fighters on the team...



#408 rick zombo

rick zombo

    Grit

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,280 posts

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:16 AM

We are mostly losing cause of a metric s*** ton of injuries and because our bottom 3 D sucks, not because we don't have enough fighters on the team...

 

I wasn't talking about fighters. I was talking about playing a more physical game.


 

Columbus' Blake Comeau will have a phone hearing with NHL today for his check from behind on the Wings' Brendan Smith Tuesday.

 

 

For the sake of Jurco's ribs, it's too bad he didn't get 5 and a game on the spot.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#409 rrasco

rrasco

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,122 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:17 AM

For the sake of Jurco's ribs, it's too bad he didn't get 5 and a game on the spot.

 

No guarantee, but if someone tuned up Comeau after the hit on Smith he probably doesn't give it to Jurco as much.  If we didn't do anything about an obvious dirty hit why the hell would he be worried about a cross-check?


Edited by rrasco, 12 March 2014 - 10:17 AM.

Kronwalled.net - Keep Yer Head up Kid


#410 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 934 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:24 AM

 

No guarantee, but if someone tuned up Comeau after the hit on Smith he probably doesn't give it to Jurco as much.  If we didn't do anything about an obvious dirty hit why the hell would he be worried about a cross-check?

 

Was good to see Smitty get right back up and show some emotion, even if it did cost us an extra 2 minutes on that PP


temp 1

 


#411 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,812 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:46 AM

so, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't they sign Tootoo for that reason? Then we can look at the fault of this to lay right on the heads of Babcock and Holland.

 

I am not one to say we need a straight up enforcer, we all know that those type of players are obsolete to the game, but I am saying that Tootoo can't be any worse offensively than Bertuzzi has been and yet Tootoo always brought energy and excitement to the game everytime he was on the ice.  I am also going to point out that every Cup the Wings have won recently has had a Tootoo type player on the team.  Maybe not throughout the playoffs, but at least throughout the year to protect our stars and allow them to last the entire season and be healthy for the playoffs. I can imagine that Lidstrom and Yzerman and Fedorov were able to be as good as they were because of the likes of Probert, Kocur, Lapointe, Downey, McCarty et al...

 

I think Tootoo should be recalled, especially now with Legwand here, and let him prove he is worth NOT buying out over the summer.  We need a protector and unfortunately Mr. Power Play hasn't re-signed with the Wings the last 5 or 6 summers and I don't think he is going to take a home-town discount this summer either...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Nestrasil, yes...Cleary....No!

Dump Q and K Now!


#412 Ekmanc

Ekmanc

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,118 posts

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:48 AM

Mr, powerplay?



#413 GoWings!

GoWings!

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:57 AM

I was really praying Mrazek would have a solid game. Now people might still actually stick up for Howard's horrendous season. The dude is awful in overtime, awful in the 3rd period and has been mechanically terrible all season. He couldn't get us past the 2nd round with Nick, Kronner,Raf or Stuart still playing in front of him. His statistical numbers of mediocrity are staggering. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that our defense is bad. But that goalie that is making the elite goalie money has to step up. Guys like Hasek that stand on their head in front of  average teams like he did with the Sabres really earn the money. This team is still patching up holes with has-beens like Bertuzzi. Guys like Abdelkader playing on the 1st line and constantly recalling a mediocre Cory Emmerton to fill in for a mediocre Andersson. Guys like Helm that seem to break bones, tear tendons or  get herniated discs when they are breathed on. You cannot expect Johan Franzen and a few GR prospects to fix these woes. Alfredsson is not even half as good as Jagr when Jagr turns 50. I think Tootoo has more ice time than Weiss this year. Only on this forum can a goalie go 15-4-3 and get chastised. The man is a friggin backup goaltender. What exactly do you expect? This team has done nothing since that Devil game in every aspect. Goalie,pp, defense, back checking, and offense. 2 much needed wins. Even the coach fails to motivate.

Crosby was out like a year and a half  for Pitts and they got 1st seed, Ducks have had guys out all year, Tampa with no Stamkos. Injuries cannot be an excuse 4 years in a row. You have to want it and I just don't see that and the inconsistency proves it. Going all out, banging the bodies and a sense of urgency is all missing.

Sad thing is, even if we had Zetts and D we still aren't a scary team. We get thrown around and still lose shootouts, blow 2-3 goal leads and fall apart in 3rd periods.

Sometimes I think the lack of 60 minute efforts has to fall on the coach's shoulders. I've seen a huge lack of effort coming from a very desperate team the last 4 games. Even the Devil game was a disgrace. Why can't our veterans play the way Jagr and Brodeur are playing at a combined age of like 82?

I know in a perfect world we'd win the Cup every year but this team looks uninspired to say the least. It's tough to watch for us all but that's why we are here on these forums so we can let out our frustrations as fans. Getting a little ticked off doesn't make us bad fans. Shows we care. We are not all trolls, are we?


Edited by GoWings!, 12 March 2014 - 11:03 AM.


#414 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,292 posts

Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:25 AM

Eventually the higher-ups will realize that it doesn't matter how many soft Euro superstars they draft or acquire... at the end of the day you have to protect your assets, and the DRW have failed to do so for the past 3-4 seasons. We may not find a grittier power-forward with great hands who can also fight, but until they find someone to keep other teams in check, what is to stop them from walking all over us, weathering our man-advantage afterwards?

 

When Neal was targeting Franzen in (what I believe) was his first or second game back from concussions, the only "enforcer" for the Red Wings by the end of the game was the officials, who threw him out of the game TO PROTECT HIM, because we had NO ONE TO STEP UP. When Stevie Y was still playing for the Wings, McCarty was given the job of making sure he never got messed with. Where is Datsyuk's McCarty? Who is protecting Franzen and his fragile head?

 

Babcock and KH will eventually realize that there is no point in building a superstar line-up if they refuse to keep them protected. Until then... well, just look at our past couple seasons and our injuries.

 

Monahan can do what he wants, because McGrattan has his back. Kessel doesn't get abused because McLaren and Orr are having his back the list goes on and on but yet somehow our mastermind things, you don't need protection..Wish we would have picked up MacIntyre from waivers Neil wouldn't even be looking at our players. I'm so sick of this soft ***** style seems like forever when this team was feared for guys like Dmac, Koecur, Downey, Probert oh the good old days.

 

Even if they did lose one thing was for sure, don't mess with our captain or young guns otherwise someone sneaky is coming down for ya! I want to see a lot of changes after this season, stop drafting soft euros go big and get McKee to the Rapids asap. Sign someone like Gazdic and get a top 4 defenseman.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#415 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,812 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:40 PM

Ekmanc 

 

Mr, Powerplay?

 

 

Yes, Mr. Powerplay....for the longest time the term "Our powerplay is our enforcer" has been kicked around as the reason we don't need a real enforcer.  I do believe it was actually one of Ken Holland's quote's.  Well Mr. Holland, unless you can get Mr. Powerplay to come back, you are going to have teams running around taking liberties and possibly injuring your players...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Nestrasil, yes...Cleary....No!

Dump Q and K Now!


#416 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,812 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

this debate is part of the reason I, and many others, wished that Holland would have extended an offer to Wiz a few years back.  I mean a REAL offer.  Sure he is not an enforcer, but he is a Marty Lapointe type who does stick up for his teammates and does drop the gloves when he needs to.

 

Remember when Big E used to drop the gloves to defend his teammates? Then he got his ass kicked a few times and now is a Big P instead of a Big E.  Dude, it's going to happen, even Probie got rocked a few times in his career, doesn't mean you stop sticking up for your teammates or defending yourself.  Same can be said of Abby. Hell even Kindl threw down a few times in Kitchener...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Nestrasil, yes...Cleary....No!

Dump Q and K Now!


#417 superstarsingh

superstarsingh

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,478 posts
  • Location:Mississauga, Ontario

Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:18 PM

this debate is part of the reason I, and many others, wished that Holland would have extended an offer to Wiz a few years back.  I mean a REAL offer.  Sure he is not an enforcer, but he is a Marty Lapointe type who does stick up for his teammates and does drop the gloves when he needs to.

 

Remember when Big E used to drop the gloves to defend his teammates? Then he got his ass kicked a few times and now is a Big P instead of a Big E.  Dude, it's going to happen, even Probie got rocked a few times in his career, doesn't mean you stop sticking up for your teammates or defending yourself.  Same can be said of Abby. Hell even Kindl threw down a few times in Kitchener...

Ericsson's role has changed a lot in the past three years though and we cannot forget that. I am not opposed to him fighting in scenarios where he is defending or standing up for his teammates but we need him on the ice. Abby strikes me as a Maltby, a s*** disturber who will seldom, if ever, actually drop the gloves. 

 

I thoroughly agree that all of the Cup teams have had that fighter style player. Not necessarily an enforcer but someone who would answer the bell. I think you forgot about Drake as well, he was important in his own way in 2008, moreso than Downey was. 

 

I feel Tootoo should be up with the team as the 13th forward because he isn't a bad player. He can skate well, hits anything that moves and obviously has been in a lot of fights over the years. 


I also loved to see Smith pop up and want to go after Comeau, we need that and Smith has no problem doing that. The trouble there is that he isn't a true fighter but hey, I would have done the same thing had I have been him. The CBJ's game plan against the Wings in recent times seems to be take a run at number 2 whether the hit is legal or not. The refs dropped the ball majorly last night but that kind of stuff does happen. 



#418 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,608 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:20 PM

I'm not sure what you guys saw last night.  I didn't see the Wings lose because they were getting beat up.  Yeah, Columbus was physical, but our problem was, once again, terrible defensive positioning and no offense.  

 

I agree it'd be nice to be able to defend ourselves, but it's hardly a priority at this point.  We've never been outmuscled in a playoff series and lost, at least the last 10 years or so.  That's what matters to me.  


Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#419 superstarsingh

superstarsingh

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,478 posts
  • Location:Mississauga, Ontario

Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

I'm not sure what you guys saw last night.  I didn't see the Wings lose because they were getting beat up.  Yeah, Columbus was physical, but our problem was, once again, terrible defensive positioning and no offense.  

 

I agree it'd be nice to be able to defend ourselves, but it's hardly a priority at this point.  We've never been outmuscled in a playoff series and lost, at least the last 10 years or so.  That's what matters to me.  

Exactly. The refs did not help the Wings at all but they didn't help themselves either. The Jackets were everywhere, especially in the third period. They were winning battles in all three zones and appeared to be playing intense playoff style hockey and the Wings simply couldn't match up and after they went down a goal, they folded up like an accordion. 

 

Emmerton losing the puck on the second goal. Tatar not tracking back well enough on the third goal...you're spot on. 



#420 wings87

wings87

    Wake Up!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,014 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:43 PM

The problem that might arise is that Holland during the off season will use the injuries as an excuse instead of admitting that he put a s***ty team together; and I'm concerned nothing will change.


"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users