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What would it take a get Shea Weber?


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#41 number9

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:04 AM

Why are we even discussing this? This is akin to acquiring Crosby, he's not going anywhere, and the Preds have stated that outright

#42 marcaractac

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 04:54 AM

We would literally have to sell the farm for him. Right off the bat you could say good bye to a couple of 1st round picks and Mantha. That would just be to get a conversation started. Would take a whole lot more on top of that.



#43 number9

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 05:00 AM

We would literally have to sell the farm for him. Right off the bat you could say good bye to a couple of 1st round picks and Mantha. That would just be to get a conversation started. Would take a whole lot more on top of that.


But but but he played good with Lidstrom in that one all-star game...

#44 LeftWinger

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:37 AM

well the OP just wanted to debate on what we thought it would take to acquire him.  We all agree it will take too much.  In my silly little scenario, I broke down what I could do without in order to add Weber.  I know that it wasn't reality and Nashville would ask for the world, but I did give up a ton of important cogs in the Red Wings machine, and that is what I would be willing to give up to get him.  It surely would cost more, and I am not prepared to give up what it take in reality.  But in the spirit of this thread, being asked what I would give up for Weber, that is what I would be ready to give up...a lot.  Obviously it would cost more, so I guess I wouldn't be acquiring Weber because in my opinion, he is good, but not better than the combined worth of the players and picks I offered...some of these GM's need to be put in check.  I sure wish they would bring back the arbitrator to the NHL to review all trade offers and penalize GM's for fleecing one team and accepting less from another...


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#45 Richdg

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 08:38 AM

Getting Weber isn't going to happen, at least not for 2-4 more years. Yes I do believe he gets moved in time, but not anytime soon.

But that doesn't help us, but maybe we are asking the wrong question. I think we all would love to have Weber or a guy like him to pair with Dekeyser for the next 8+ years and form a top pair. So maybe we need to be asking, who can we pick up that could become the next Weber type Dman? We don't have time to wait and see if Sproul or another prospect makes it 2-3 years from now. We need a DD clone from the right side now. So, who is going to be the next Weber?



#46 wingsfan91

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 09:13 AM

Umm... Well we just gave up Jarnkrok, Eaves and a mid-2nd/3rd to the same team for a 33 year old David Legwand (who has expiring contract and wasn't re-signing) and has only put up 50 points twice in his career.

 

So to get a top 3 defenseman in the NHL (the face of their franchise and captain) who is still in the prime of his career, with a very reasonable cap hit for until he's retired (considering inflation during the current CBA) would probably take something like:

 

Irrelevant because Nashville isn't trading this type of player for the next 5-6 years - unless he demands a trade.



#47 ogreslayer

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

TWO 1st round draft picks(both of which will be top 12 (1 of them top 5) considering we aren't making the playoffs,) Darren Helm, Brendan Smith alone is a very valuable package.  Throwing the other three in for padding.  If Nashville wouldn't take that, then Poile is crazy...the problem is, Holland is stupid, so he would never offer it. I would put Ericsson in there instead of Smith if needed. (and that would be my preference.)

 

to NSH:  #12 overall and a #5 overall pick in 2014, Helm, Ericsson, Kindl, Ferraro, Almqvist

 

Nashville would be put in an asylum if they wouldn't accept that...

 

2 picks (and 1 banking on the fact that you can talk Jimmy into accepting a trade to the Isle?  Riiiiight), two solid contributors but not top tier players by any stretch of the imagination, & 3 kids that are extreme long shots (Kindl included) to be on the Wings' roster next season & could be claimed on waivers instead if they were really interested?  Poile would be run out of town if he accepted an offer like that.  

 

The conversation would probably go more like The Wings' 2014 & 2015 1st round picks, their 2015 2nd or 3rd rounder, Nyquist, Mantha, DeKeyser/Smith.  Then possibly a Jurco, Pulkkinen, Sproul, Ouellet, or Marchenko to get the deal done or depending on how confident they are that Rinne & rebound from his health issues, add Mrazek to that list.



#48 krsmith17

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

People may not agree but I would overpay for a guy like Jacob Trouba. I see him as the closest thing to a future Weber.

Can you imagine a pairing of DeKeyser - Trouba in a few years?

 

To Winnipeg - Jakub Kindl, Xavier Ouellet, Joakim Andersson, 2014 1st and 3rd

To Detroit - Jacob Trouba

 

In 3 years

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Trouba

Smith - Sproul

 

Not gonna happen though...



#49 Richdg

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 09:57 AM

Now, back to the question, who can be the next Weber? Ok, what is Weber? He is a 28 year old, 6-4/230 RHed shooting Dman good for 50 points per year and good D. So who are the next generation fo guys that could become that type of player? Have no idea how any of these guys will turn out, but here is a list I would work from:

 

E Johnson 25 6-4/230 RH 40 pts per year

Pietrangelo 24 6-3/200 RH 55 pts per year

Shattenkirk 25 6-0/210 RH 50 pts per year

Bogosian 23 6-3/215 RH 25 pts per year

Petry 26 6-3/195 RH 30 pts per year

Voynov 24 5-11/200 RH 35 pts per year

Stone 23 6-3/210 RH 30 pts per year

Myers 24 6-8/225 RH 40 pts per year

Gryba 25 6-4/225 RH 25 pts per year

Franson 26 6-5/215 RH 30 pts per year

Faulk 21 6-0/215 RH 30 pts per year

Schenn 24 6-2/230 RH 25 pts per year

Carlson 24 6-3/215 RH 40 pts per year

 

Now which ones of that group will develop further into a superstar? Carlson is most likely, in fact may have already developed to a point where it is impossible to afford him. But figure which one of these guys will get there, then make a move. Now we have a true top pair for the next 8+ years.



#50 ogreslayer

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 10:04 AM

Wanted to add some thoughts on the opinions that Nashville would never trade Weber unless he asked out. The reality in Nashville is that they're an internal cap team, dead last in their division, will certainly miss the playoffs this season, & with how the West is stacked will probably struggle to make the playoffs in the next few years at least.  So their revenue is already going to take a hit this year with the weaker Canadian dollar & a lack of playoff games.  

 

If that continues for a couple/few seasons, there's going to be some pressure there to improve the team while controlling costs.  A good way to do that is get a great package of young players for the guy who is taking up 13% of your current payroll.  That's a couple tenths of a point away from the percentage that Crosby & Malkin are in Pittsburgh or Perry & Getzlaf in Anaheim and higher than the likes of Kane, Toews, Pavel,Stamkos, Karlsson, Chara...the list goes on.  Ovechkin far & away is on the top of that list fyi at ~14.8%.  If the Pred's continue to struggle on the ice & on the balance sheet, the quickest way for them to start a turnaround is to trade off their most expensive & most valuable chip imo.


Edited by ogreslayer, 13 March 2014 - 11:39 AM.


#51 amato

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 11:01 AM

Pietrangelo is already at a Weber level of dman imo. I'd love to have him but never going to happen....

 

 

Myers could be obtainable for a couple quality young pieces given the state the sabres are in now.

 

but holland won't do it. he'll likely sign a vet or two in the off season to bridge us over until oulette and friends are full time nhl ready


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#52 Dabura

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:26 PM

but holland won't do it. he'll likely sign a vet or two in the off season to bridge us over until oulette and friends are full time nhl ready

 

Which I think is probably the right way to go. Certainly better than selling the farm for Weber, who, as far as I know, didn't express a real interest in being a Red Wing when Holland sat down with him (which is, as far as I know, why Holland didn't bother throwing an offer sheet at him). I mean, don't get me wrong, I want Weber on this team as much as the next guy. But I think Dan Boyle should be our #1 target. Pour everything into landing him in the summer.


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#53 joshy207

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:37 PM

TWO 1st round draft picks(both of which will be top 12 (1 of them top 5) considering we aren't making the playoffs,) Darren Helm, Brendan Smith alone is a very valuable package.  Throwing the other three in for padding.  If Nashville wouldn't take that, then Poile is crazy...the problem is, Holland is stupid, so he would never offer it. I would put Ericsson in there instead of Smith if needed. (and that would be my preference.)

 

to NSH:  #12 overall and a #5 overall pick in 2014, Helm, Ericsson, Kindl, Ferraro, Almqvist

 

Nashville would be put in an asylum if they wouldn't accept that...

 

Helm has had a terrible injury history the last few years, he may never return to form.  Kindl is a #6/7 D on most teams who has been slow to develop and has regressed from last season.  Ferraro and Almqvist MIGHT BE borderline NHLers who would have to clear waivers to be sent back to the minors next year.  Ericsson is the only player with any trade value, and he's a #3 D on most teams.  The Wings would have to offer far more value to acquire Weber.

 

**EDIT**  I hadn't read your next post when I posted this.


Edited by joshy207, 13 March 2014 - 12:42 PM.


#54 Dabura

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:42 PM

It just occurred to me that we're carrying two of the Predators' most iconic players in Tootoo and Legwand. Why is this season so bizarro world?


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#55 DeGraa55

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:52 PM


Wanted to add some thoughts on the opinions that Nashville would never trade Weber unless he asked out. The reality in Nashville is that they're an internal cap team, dead last in their division, will certainly miss the playoffs this season, & with how the West is stacked will probably struggle to make the playoffs in the next few years at least.  So their revenue is already going to take a hit this year with the weaker Canadian dollar & a lack of playoff games.  

 

If that continues for a couple/few seasons, there's going to be some pressure there to improve the team while controlling costs.  A good way to do that is get a great package of young players for the guy who is taking up 13% of your current payroll.  That's a couple tenths of a point away from the percentage that Crosby & Malkin are in Pittsburgh or Perry & Getzlaf in Anaheim and higher than the likes of Kane, Toews, Pavel,Stamkos, Karlsson, Chara...the list goes on.  Ovechkin far & away is on the top of that list fyi at ~14.8%.  If the Pred's continue to struggle on the ice & on the balance sheet, the quickest way for them to start a turnaround is to trade off their most expensive & most valuable chip imo.




What does a weaker Canadian dollar have to do with a team in Nashville tennessee(in the USA)?

#56 Son of a Wing

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:06 PM

What does a weaker Canadian dollar have to do with a team in Nashville tennessee(in the USA)?

 

Profit Sharing.  It's essential to teams like Nashville.


They heavily rely on teams like Toronto and Montreal.


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#57 robb himself

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:07 PM

I honestly believe that we already have our own Shea Weber...Ryan Sproul. This kid is going to be a beast for us one day.


be about it!

#58 DeGraa55

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:51 PM

 
Profit Sharing.  It's essential to teams like Nashville.

They heavily rely on teams like Toronto and Montreal.


Even with a weaker Canadian dollar how much less profit are those two teams for example making compared to normal?

And teams like wpg and edm I can't imagine are making a whole lot of money. And van I think still is even with their crap season.

#59 Son of a Wing

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:01 PM

Even with a weaker Canadian dollar how much less profit are those two teams for example making compared to normal?

And teams like wpg and edm I can't imagine are making a whole lot of money. And van I think still is even with their crap season.

 

A weak Canadian dollar has repercussions throughout the league. Here's why...

 

 

A maximum of 50% of the Redistribution Commitment is drawn from the Top 10 highest-grossing teams based on pre-season and regular season revenue. Each team's contribution is based on how much they earn over and above the 11th-ranked team, so the teams in the 8-10 spots don't pay in nearly as much as the top three, for example.

 

And included in the top 3 are almost always Toronto and Montreal. 

 

Here's the source of the quote and a good read to understand Nashville's place in regards to profit sharing and how they're affected.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#60 wings4thecup06

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:15 PM


temp 1

 






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