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3/16 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 4



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#441 wings87

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:20 PM

OK, but does THEIR aim blow too? Or just THEY'RE aim?


Who the f*** cares it's a hockey forum not a Mensa convention.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#442 gcom007

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:21 PM

 

Uh, no we're not.

 

Hank and Zetterberg were playing pretty consistently up until December. Our record at the end of December was 18-23. 

 

In other words, we would be pretty much in the same situation if those two were healthy. 

 

If we had a healthy Dats and Z and Howard was able to clean up his magical 3rd period problems, we'd be up there. It still wouldn't be pretty to say the least, but I think we'd be cycling in and out of that 3rd spot down the stretch. 


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#443 FireCaptain

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:22 PM

Who the f*** cares it's a hockey forumnot a Mensa convention.

 Fixed it for ya.


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#444 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:23 PM

Who the f*** cares it's a hockey forum not a Mensa convention.


God dammit

Why didn't someone tell me sooner

LGWsig_zpsa75c5d1e.jpg

 


#445 wings87

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:23 PM

I've got a ton of respect for the career Alfie has had and I think it's pretty evident he's going to be back next year, but I really don't want him back. I'm tired of resigning players just based on loyalty, loyalty is important but at some point an organization has to move on.

Edited by wings87, 16 March 2014 - 09:28 PM.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#446 8 Legged RedWing

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:24 PM



#447 wingfan1991

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

not surprised with result, expected miracle to win this one.f****** Datsyuk, get out there man!

#448 wings87

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:27 PM

Fixed it for ya.


Wow. You're being kinda anal, don't you think? You must be a real hit with the ladies.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#449 wingfan1991

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:27 PM

Did you miss the first 20 games when most players were healthy? We still couldn't win. Most of the team was built with old players and fourth liners.


First 25 games we were top 3 in conference from what I remember.

#450 gcom007

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

I got a ton of respect for the career Alfie has had and I think it's pretty evident he's going to be back next year, but I really don't want him back. I'm tired of resigning players just based on loyalty, loyalty is important but at some point an organization has to move on.

 

Given that Holland isn't likely to spend the money on other players, we might as well bring him back. If Dats and Z can stay healthy and imagining guys like Nyquist and Tatar improving, I think Alfie can end up looking a lot better than he's looked down the stretch here. At his age, he's not going to be able to carry you, but he can absolutely contribute and be an important part of the locker room. I don't think we'd be having this conversation if he had guys around him able to carry more of the load. I hope he signs for a bit less next year especially if we do go shopping (and I think he would) but I'm very open to keeping him, and if the team is healthier, I think we'd be happy we did. 


-Elliot...does not panic.

#451 ShanahanMan

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:32 PM

First 25 games we were top 3 in conference from what I remember.

 

We were 13-12. Definitely not top conference material. 

 

Not surprising when you have guys like Bert, Abby and Cleary rotating between the top two lines. 


Edited by ShanahanMan, 16 March 2014 - 09:34 PM.



I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#452 RedWingsRox

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:37 PM

where's the Howard = average thread that always come up after a lost like this?



#453 wings87

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:49 PM

First 25 games we were top 3 in conference from what I remember.



It was sheer luck, once the other teams started playing better and we started losing, we couldn't stop. First 27 games, 1/3 of the season, we were
13-7-7. All those OT losses have come back to hurt us.

Given that Holland isn't likely to spend the money on other players, we might as well bring him back. If Dats and Z can stay healthy and imagining guys like Nyquist and Tatar improving, I think Alfie can end up looking a lot better than he's looked down the stretch here. At his age, he's not going to be able to carry you, but he can absolutely contribute and be an important part of the locker room. I don't think we'd be having this conversation if he had guys around him able to carry more of the load. I hope he signs for a bit less next year especially if we do go shopping (and I think he would) but I'm very open to keeping him, and if the team is healthier, I think we'd be happy we did.


I see your point but my issue with him is that he needs someone to play with to be successful. I also understand that players can't play by themselves but we have too many players as is, that need someone else to go get the puck for them. The wings used to be a team of players that would all fight for the puck, now half the team floats around waiting for someone to give them the puck so they can score.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#454 The Datsyukian Deke

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:51 PM

where's the Howard = average thread that always come up after a lost like this?

 

That's simple - everyone knows already and everyone is tired of repeating it.


Lidstrom: "Retiring today allows me to walk away from the game with pride, rather than have the game walk away from me."


#455 brett

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:07 PM

I really need to stop letting this stupid team effect my mood so much. Ruin my mood way too often. Think they care that much? Unlikely

#456 gcom007

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:08 PM

I see your point but my issue with him is that he needs someone to play with to be successful. I also understand that players can't play by themselves but we have too many players as is, that need someone else to go get the puck for them. The wings used to be a team of players that would all fight for the puck, now half the team floats around waiting for someone to give them the puck so they can score.

 

I don't disagree with the general idea of that at all. We need more guys that don't hesitate to fight for the puck, without a doubt. But having skilled guys with a strong veteran presence and a drive to win like Alfie can also be of benefit. If I believed we had a chance at signing multiple guys that would bring some more intensity in puck chases but it'd push us to the brink of the cap, I'd say let Alfie go. But again, I have my doubts about us adding one guy like that, let alone multiple guys like that, so if we have cap space to play with, I think it'd be well spent on Alfie, especially given that the team is likely to be built around more young guys next year. Alfie is a great leader and another year of having him around will be good for our kids. 

 

We also need another guy who loves to shoot so much that he actually shoots instead of passing it. And for the love, we need at least one more real top-four defenseman, especially given that Howard can't be relied upon to be a goalie deserving of his high-end contract consistently. We probably should've locked him up for $4 million or so earlier in the going before his big year and we'd have even more cap space to try and acquire a top-4 defenseman. I like Jimmy, I really do, and I think he's a capable goalie, but I don't think he's going to turn into a reliable top 10 goalie goalie like his contract suggests he'd be, at least not in Detroit. I think all parties involved would be better off with Howard being viewed as a top-20 goalie making about $4 million, playing behind a better defense that doesn't rely on him to bail them out so often. Again, it just boils down to the team being unbalanced; too much money spent for a top 20 goalie, too much money spent on guys that don't play or don't need to play given they're outplayed by our kids, and far too little money spent for defense.


Edited by gcom007, 16 March 2014 - 10:25 PM.

-Elliot...does not panic.

#457 wings87

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:10 PM

I really need to stop letting this stupid team effect my mood so much. Ruin my mood way too often. Think they care that much? Unlikely

 

I'm with you, they look uninterested; its mind boggling. 


"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#458 aflac9262

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:17 PM

The Red Wings have become one of the most boring and uninspired hockey clubs in the league. How on earth does Smith have an NHL contract? He does not even belong in the AHL!



#459 gcom007

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:18 PM

 

That's simple - everyone knows already and everyone is tired of repeating it.

 

As said in my post above, if we'd signed him earlier in the season for a more reasonable amount, say $4 million, I think it would've been better for everyone. Less pressure on himself to play up to his contract, less pressure from management, the fans, and the media to justify his contract, more money to sign help on defense. You've gotta look at it with the perspective that his career has been inconsistent from the AHL on up and acknowledge the fact that you're not likely to just let the guy go, so you get the deal done before he has the time to play his value up. Again, we've seen too many times that he can go from being outstanding to barely even average, and he's yet to have a really noteworthy playoff run. He'd come out looking better in a more balanced system, and his off nights might not come out looking as bad as they do now when he gets little help and has that big contract hanging over his head when everyone wonders why he keeps giving up so many goals in the 3rd.

 

But my mind has has just been blown again and again by what Holland is and isn't willing to spend too much money on. That's a way bigger problem than Jimmy Howard.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#460 wings87

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:20 PM

 

I don't disagree with the general idea of that at all. We need more guys that don't hesitate to fight for the puck, without a doubt. But having skilled guys with a strong veteran presence and a drive to win like Alfie can also be of benefit. If I believed we had a chance at signing multiple guys that would bring some more intensity in puck chases but it'd push us to the brink of the cap, I'd say let Alfie go. But again, I have my doubts about us adding one guy like that, let alone multiple guys like that, so if we have cap space to play with, I think it'd be well spent on Alfie, especially given that the team is likely to be built around more young guys next year. Alfie is a great leader and another year of having him around will be good for our kids. 

 

We also need another guy who loves to shoot so much that he actually shoots instead of passing it. And for the love, we need at least one more real top-four defenseman, especially given that Howard can't be relied upon to be a goalie deserving of his high-end contract consistently. We probably should've locked him up for $4 million or so earlier in the going before his big year and we'd have even more cap space to try and acquire a top-4 defenseman. I like Jimmy, I really do, and I think he's a capable goalie, but I don't think he's going to turn into a reliable top 10 goalie goalie like his contract suggests he'd be, at least not in Detroit. I think all parties involved would be better off with Howard being viewed as a top-20 goalie making about $4 million, playing behind a better defense that doesn't rely on him to bail them out so often. Again, it just boils down to the team being imbalanced; too much money spent for a top 20 goalie, too much money spent on guys that don't play or don't need to play given they're outplayed by our kids, and far too little money spent for defense.

 

You've hit the nail on the head on most points but I'm not sure how much of a leader Alfie is in the Wings clubhouse. In Ottawa he had status and a real presence; on the Wings he seems to be overshadowed by guys that don't have the same pedigree that he does, but have been here longer. I've definitely haven't seen his presence on the ice these last couple weeks, he might be a good guy in the locker room; but being the new guy and playing on the third line, I'm just not sold on his leadership ability on the current team. Plus with his experience and track record you just know Holland will give him at least 4 mil a year, and that just makes me cringe.

 

I completely agree with your second paragraph. 100% 


"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 






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